Gender pronouns in the workplace

[HolySpirit]

Because their mind is flawed. Their body is normal. Gender is inherant in humans. It is not something that can be changed like removing a tumor. It is part of who we are.

 

[Alex337]

Because their mind is flawed. Their body is normal. Gender is inherant in humans. It is not something that can be changed like removing a tumor. It is part of who we are.

Our sex is just as capable of being flawed as any other aspect of us. The more we look at brain scans the more it seems their brains may well be normal; just normal for the sex their body isn’t.

So much about us is part of who we are but can be effected by the imperfections of the fallen world. My grandmother’s, both of them, were both completely incapable of having children due to such imperfections; but motherhood was a huge part of who they both were. It was inherent to them but not supported by their body if that makes sense?

 

[HolySpirit]

No worries. I often tell people to look it up when people ask for citations on simple things that everyone should know. I don’t agree with doing “homework” for other people.

However, I will admit that I am ignorant about this subject, because I have extremely limited experience with it. I’ve never had to deal with it. My opinions are not informed. They are more common sense. (At least to me.) That is the main reason I read the comments on issues that I’d like to learn more about. Commenting usually sparks a conversation where I learn something about the world.

 

[HolySpirit]

Yes, it does. But I need to consider motherhood in greater depth to see if I would equate it to gender.

But I follow your reasoning.

 

[Alex337]

Always happy to chat about it. I’m also happy to admit a personal bias on the matter. I know transwomen and a transman, they have all fought so hard to be who they are. And the transwomen honestly seem to be more like a woman than I am. I’ve not risked my life, friends or family to be a woman; they have. I was just born this way.

 

[HolySpirit]

I’m curious. Do you know if they ever tried to discuss this with a mental health professional? Is the idea ever presented to them that they may be wrong and they really are a man or a woman?

Or is it just accepted by the MHP that the feelings of being trapped in the wrong body are perfectly normal?

 

[Alex337]

I’m curious. Do you know if they ever tried to discuss this with a mental health professional? Is the idea ever presented to them that they may be wrong and they really are a man or a woman?

Or is it just accepted by the MHP that the feelings of being trapped in the wrong body are perfectly normal?

Yes, in Australia a person must talk with a psychiatrist before and during transition. Same in the UK.

The therapy is about exploring options and I know one of the transwomen wanted to avoid surgery or other medical interventions (she’s a bit afraid of those) so she wanted to try to find a way to become comfortable with her biological sex. We supported her through this but in the end it just couldn’t relieve the dysphoria, being treated as a man was too distressing.

It’s much like gay folks who try to live straight, or the conversion therapies that some try. Even if we accept that it’s purely in their head it doesn’t seem to be something that therapy can change.

So many are left with the very hard choice of living as a gender they find incredibly wrong, or risk losing friends and family in order to live in a way that alleviates some of that dysphoria. It’s a hard choice that I wouldn’t wish on anyone.

 

[HolySpirit]

I think requiring a person to go through psychaitric counseling prior to surgery makes a lot of sense. The person needs to deal with problems both internal and external. That would be very hard for anyone to navigate alone.

Do you know if it is a common practice in these cases for a MHP to ever say “have you considered the fact that you may be wrong?” or “based on what you have told me, I do not believe that you are transgendered. I would like to explore other causes for the way you are feeling today.”

Or is it just automatically accepted that the transgendered person is transgendered based on stating their personal beliefs?

 

[Alex337]

I think requiring a person to go through psychaitric counseling prior to surgery makes a lot of sense. The person needs to deal with problems both internal and external. That would be very hard for anyone to navigate alone.

Do you know if it is a common practice in these cases for a MHP to ever say “have you considered the fact that you may be wrong?” or “based on what you have told me, I do not believe that you are transgendered. I would like to explore other causes for the way you are feeling today.”

Or is it just automatically accepted that the transgendered person is transgendered based on stating their personal beliefs?

It’s a tricky thing as therapy shouldn’t quite tell a person they are wrong, but they can suggest the person explore other options that seem more likely. And that does happen.

A formal diagnosis of gender dysphoria takes time to get, as with a diagnosis of just about anything. And in this time they try to explore all options to make sure it’s correct and to see if other things also need to be treated, such as anxiety or depression.

Before surgery or hormones most as told to live as their preferred gender for 6 months or more to help ensure it’s really what they want. Finding non surgical ways to manage the distress is a big part too; surgery takes a lot of time and effort, so finding ways to mitigate the condition without needing medical intervention is something many want to do.

If a person can find a way to be happy and safe without having to upturn their whole life, spend thousands on surgery and go through the huge process of proving they need it they tend to the that option.

 

[Steve4321]

I suppose I am fortunate that my name is unambiguously masculine and could never be confused for a woman’s name; thus it is unnecessary for me to ‘add my preferred pronouns’.

Uh oh. Your toxic masculinity is showing. I’m going to retreat to my safe space.

 

[HolySpirit]

Thank you. I just wanted to be sure that transgenderism was not automatically assumed.

It gives me more food for thought.

I need to do more research on the subject. I still think it is something that is mentally disordered, but your information tells me that there is a lot more I need to learn about the subject. I’d especially like to learn more about the brain imaging.

Of course, having zero interaction with those people that I am aware of does not help. Maybe, I am just oblivious. My late wife used to tell me I was quite frequently.

 

[kill051]

kill051:

I suppose I am fortunate that my name is unambiguously masculine and could never be confused for a woman’s name; thus it is unnecessary for me to ‘add my preferred pronouns’.

Uh oh. Your toxic masculinity is showing. I’m going to retreat to my safe space.

‘Toxic masculinity’? Isn’t that a redundancy to the sophisticated, modern way of thinking?

 

[Alex337]

kill051:

I suppose I am fortunate that my name is unambiguously masculine and could never be confused for a woman’s name; thus it is unnecessary for me to ‘add my preferred pronouns’.

Uh oh. Your toxic masculinity is showing. I’m going to retreat to my safe space.

Hey friend. So I know this is a joke but toxic masculinity is a thing. As is good masculinity. And safe spaces are cool, it would be nice if they weren’t needed but some folks have been through very rough stuff. Many view their church as a safe space.

 

[Alex337]

Steve4321:

kill051:

I suppose I am fortunate that my name is unambiguously masculine and could never be confused for a woman’s name; thus it is unnecessary for me to ‘add my preferred pronouns’.

Uh oh. Your toxic masculinity is showing. I’m going to retreat to my safe space.

‘Toxic masculinity’? Isn’t that a redundancy to the sophisticated, modern way of thinking?

Not at all some ideals we associate with masculinity are wonderful. Being fatherly is masculine for example, and it’s great.

 

[kill051]

Steve4321:

kill051:

I suppose I am fortunate that my name is unambiguously masculine and could never be confused for a woman’s name; thus it is unnecessary for me to ‘add my preferred pronouns’.

Uh oh. Your toxic masculinity is showing. I’m going to retreat to my safe space.

Hey friend. So I know this is a joke but toxic masculinity is a thing. As is good masculinity. And safe spaces are cool, it would be nice if they weren’t needed but some folks have been through very rough stuff. Many view their church as a safe space.

Thanks for the reminder, but I think I am correct in stating that we ALL(the human race) have been through some ‘very rough stuff’. And many may view their church as a safe space, but that would be a mistake. Even God isn’t safe. As Mr Beaver says about Aslan in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good’.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

Steve4321:

kill051:

I suppose I am fortunate that my name is unambiguously masculine and could never be confused for a woman’s name; thus it is unnecessary for me to ‘add my preferred pronouns’.

Uh oh. Your toxic masculinity is showing. I’m going to retreat to my safe space.

Hey friend. So I know this is a joke but toxic masculinity is a thing. As is good masculinity. And safe spaces are cool, it would be nice if they weren’t needed but some folks have been through very rough stuff. Many view their church as a safe space.

Thanks for the reminder, but I think I am correct in stating that we ALL(the human race) have been through some ‘very rough stuff’. And many may view their church as a safe space, but that would be a mistake. Even God isn’t safe. As Mr Beaver says about Aslan in the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good’.

True. But we can strive to make places safer and better for all. We can never fully know what another person is going through, but we can always strive for compassion. And folks wanting to feel safe doesn’t seem unreasonable

 

[Paul71]

As Mr Beaver says about Aslan in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe , ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good’.

I believe someone also says of Aslan that “he isn’t a tame lion” (if I remember correctly).

 

[Paul71]

The therapy is about exploring options and I know one of the transwomen wanted to avoid surgery or other medical interventions (she’s a bit afraid of those) so she wanted to try to find a way to become comfortable with her biological sex. We supported her through this but in the end it just couldn’t relieve the dysphoria, being treated as a man was too distressing.

How delightfully Orwellian. I thought that you were talking about a woman. Only when I got to the last part of the last sentence did I realize that something didn’t quite add up. Upon re-reading the whole paragraph, I realized that “she” is man. If “preferred gender pronouns” serve any purpose, it isn’t clarity.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

The therapy is about exploring options and I know one of the transwomen wanted to avoid surgery or other medical interventions (she’s a bit afraid of those) so she wanted to try to find a way to become comfortable with her biological sex. We supported her through this but in the end it just couldn’t relieve the dysphoria, being treated as a man was too distressing.

How delightfully Orwellian. I thought that you were talking about a woman. Only when I got to the last part of the last sentence did I realize that something didn’t quite add up. Upon re-reading the whole paragraph, I realized that “she” is man. If “preferred gender pronouns” serve any purpose, it isn’t clarity.

That’s because she is a woman.

 

[Paul71]

That’s because she is a woman.

I don’t subscribe to neo-Gnosticism, so I will politely disagree with that assessment.