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WingedHussar
Guest
Seeing as we were talking about national problems I thought the sort of duty I was referring to was obvious.
Gender roles in marriage. Do some men just have a problem with women?
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WingedHussar
Guest
Agreed, let us throw Genesis out the window.
blackforest
Well-known member
I’m certainly not throwing Church teaching out the window. Or is becoming a nun now a sin?
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WingedHussar
Guest
This objection has already been covered earlier in the thread.
blackforest
Well-known member
Then factor it into your claim about a “duty to reproduce.” Also, the single life is acceptable in Church teaching. Not everyone is required to marry; in fact, gay and lesbian Catholics cannot.
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WingedHussar
Guest
Already covered earlier in the thread.
Of course they cannot, “gay marriage” is a contradiction in terms.
Of course they cannot, “gay marriage” is a contradiction in terms.
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Xantippe
Guest
But if fewer women have children, you’re going to need more women than you would otherwise.
blackforest
Well-known member
Then let’s cease any references to a “duty to reproduce.” There are too many exceptions.
Yea, I’m all tongue-and-cheek but I agree with you.
Yea, I’m all tongue-and-cheek but I agree with you.
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WingedHussar
Guest
Exceptions that prove the rule as discussed earlier.
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Xantippe
Guest
Birthrates have gone down a lot globally, too.
Fertility Rate
How does the number of children vary across the world and over time? What is driving the rapid global change?
ourworldindata.org
Also, US fertility outcomes are affected by what men want, too. It’s not just women wanting few/no kids–US men aren’t necessarily all chomping at the bit to have large families and to have wives who are so busy having babies that they can’t realistically bring in much income. A lot of guys like to have a wife who can make a good income.
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DarkLight
Guest
Granted, there are also correlations between birth rate and infant mortality. As I recall, many of the times in history where women routinely had lots and lots of kids were ones where many children didn’t survive to adulthood. They also were ones where kids started pitching in much earlier than they did now - so having lots of kids was economically incentivized rather than a net drain.
There’s a big difference between raising kids who are going to start helping on the farm as soon as they’re old enough to manage, versus kids who will be costing money realistically until their early 20’s.
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Xantippe
Guest
…at least.
A lot of “kids” require family support deep into their 20s. That a) makes having kids less appealing and b) means that these “kids” aren’t having families of their own.
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ExtraordinaryGrace
Guest
As a first generation American I have a hard time grasping the secular nature of its mating ritual. In my family the mother put the match together based on her daughter’s skills and familial expectations; willingness to comply with family holidays and worship practices, which essentially meant giving up your “identity” and becoming a member of the wife’s family completely if you are not in the same ethnic group. My family chose matches based on family piety and religious expectations. In America, me being the first generation, the marriage ritual is very different. Luckily God has blessed me with discernment and will guide me through my marriage as He sees fit. I require at least weekly mass attendance, daily prayer in solitude and communally, daily involvement in family life beyond the “nuclear family” and perpetual respect to our destined roles in life.
I am a woman. In my family we married young and had over a dozen children. This did NOT mean that we didn’t work. My great-grandmother, May she be with the Lord, had 13 children and while my great-grandfather, May he be with the Lord, went to work off of their compound as a contractor, made wedding dresses by hand for women in the “city”. She was well and widely known for her craft and also made crochet lace of various kinds that I grew up cherishing.
My family would not have been what is was if Ma had worked outside of the home. She raised 13 children, maintained a well respected craft, and cared for many acres of land, while her husband journeyed elsewhere and they BOTH made a beautiful family and cared for each other in a way you don’t see very often today.
I believe that as Cahtolics we have a grave responsibility to perpetually preach and witness Truth in its full form. These great women in my life were simple and humble and submitted themselves fully to the Lord and his commandments. As someone who dropped out of college partially due to feeling as though I was not being prepared to be a wife and mother, I feel especially called to the sacrament of marriage and feel that there are too many couples and not enough marriages true to the sacrament in today’s world. To explain myself; the passion of lust has been purposefully subverted to mean love in today’s secular world making passion and privation of pleasure the sole purpose of a marriage and not continuation of the family and its traditions. I long to return to the order that parent-church guided marriages had in my family and consider that in turn those that are guided by true love for man and God will answer their vocation as from God, not himself.
I am a woman. In my family we married young and had over a dozen children. This did NOT mean that we didn’t work. My great-grandmother, May she be with the Lord, had 13 children and while my great-grandfather, May he be with the Lord, went to work off of their compound as a contractor, made wedding dresses by hand for women in the “city”. She was well and widely known for her craft and also made crochet lace of various kinds that I grew up cherishing.
My family would not have been what is was if Ma had worked outside of the home. She raised 13 children, maintained a well respected craft, and cared for many acres of land, while her husband journeyed elsewhere and they BOTH made a beautiful family and cared for each other in a way you don’t see very often today.
I believe that as Cahtolics we have a grave responsibility to perpetually preach and witness Truth in its full form. These great women in my life were simple and humble and submitted themselves fully to the Lord and his commandments. As someone who dropped out of college partially due to feeling as though I was not being prepared to be a wife and mother, I feel especially called to the sacrament of marriage and feel that there are too many couples and not enough marriages true to the sacrament in today’s world. To explain myself; the passion of lust has been purposefully subverted to mean love in today’s secular world making passion and privation of pleasure the sole purpose of a marriage and not continuation of the family and its traditions. I long to return to the order that parent-church guided marriages had in my family and consider that in turn those that are guided by true love for man and God will answer their vocation as from God, not himself.
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MNathaniel
Guest
Out of curiosity, where is your family from? You’re making a big point of it not being America. So, from where?
How’s that working out for you? What, specifically, are you doing with the time you’d otherwise be spending in college, that you feel is actively preparing you “to be a wife and mother”?
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WingedHussar
Guest
Good point, prior to birth control there was more or less a biological limit to feminism. Men and women enjoy having sex and that results in pregnancy. Before easy “safe” abortions and female birth control this usually entailed dropping out of the workforce and staying home to raise a child. With the biology subverted, that opened the door for the culture to change, which affected the politics and finally the economics.
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ExtraordinaryGrace
Guest
My family is from East Asia and migrated west through the Spanish islands in the Caribbean and came to America in the 1980s.
I have spent the past 5 years working many different jobs, volunteering, investing in a library of over 500 books, taking care of of family and friends who have had surgery or needed full time care, and growing immensely in Christ and His Church.
I have spent the past 5 years working many different jobs, volunteering, investing in a library of over 500 books, taking care of of family and friends who have had surgery or needed full time care, and growing immensely in Christ and His Church.
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Xantippe
Guest
At the same time, a lot of girls and women throughout Christian history have chosen to remain in the single state for their entire lives–some due to piety and probably some because they were not enthused by what they had seen of the duties and dangers of wifehood and motherhood.
In our Catholic tradition, we have a lot of traditional stories of young women who refused marriage and were applauded for it (St. Clare of Assisi and St. Catherine of Siena come to mind).
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HollyDolly
Guest
Me, I’m not married.I wanted to be a nun like my great aunt.However, my mother had high blood pressure and later in life had a stroke, so i took care of her. My dad ha COPD was retired military(vet of three wars 1942-1975) and i took care of him as well. I suppose at age 64 i could get married, but i prefer my cat Joe. No arguements, no sulking etc.
My mom worked before she got married, but when I came along, and then my brother and sister, well she didn’t work.My dad could cook, clean ,iron, fix cars and do other things including diapering and feeding babies.Momma did work too of course. It wasn’t man’s work versus women’ it was just work. My dad had six aunts, three married, three not. All worked from the time they were young ,his father and uncles too, because great grandma was a mean old german woman who didn’t believe in pampering kids and thought they should pull their weight. No she wasn’t a widow woman, that was her personality. She used to fight with great grandpa quite often, which is why my grandfather left home at 13.
My parents however were 37 and 31 when I was born in 1956. They had a lot of time to mature, and things were different i suppose back then.
My mom worked before she got married, but when I came along, and then my brother and sister, well she didn’t work.My dad could cook, clean ,iron, fix cars and do other things including diapering and feeding babies.Momma did work too of course. It wasn’t man’s work versus women’ it was just work. My dad had six aunts, three married, three not. All worked from the time they were young ,his father and uncles too, because great grandma was a mean old german woman who didn’t believe in pampering kids and thought they should pull their weight. No she wasn’t a widow woman, that was her personality. She used to fight with great grandpa quite often, which is why my grandfather left home at 13.
My parents however were 37 and 31 when I was born in 1956. They had a lot of time to mature, and things were different i suppose back then.
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WingedHussar
Guest
That objection was already covered earlier.
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