Genealogies of Genesis

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Dear fellow Catholics,

I would like to solicit replies only from those who believe in theistic evolution, since those of others would surely be but a deviation from the subject matter.

In 1890, Dr William Henry Green, in his article “Primeval Chronology”, put forth an exegetical framework in which to understand the genealogies of Genesis that might render them compatible with the findings of science.

I have, however, come across the following objection:
To explain this apparent conflict between well established science and
scripture Green asserts that there are gaps in the Genesis genealogies and
that Adam was most likely created by God many thousands of years earlier than
the chronological information contained in Genesis seems to say. Maybe when
Green first made this appeal over 100 years ago such an understanding of
Genesis 5 and 11 solved the scientific conflicts a purely natural reading of
them then appeared to create. However, such an apologetic method does not do
so today. Why? Because today the same scientists who tell us modern man has
been around for at least several tens of thousands of years also tell us that
the activities Adam and his immediate descendants engaged in, including some
of the activities Adam’s own sons Cain and Abel engaged in (and we know Cain
and Able [sic] were really Adam’s sons and not some much later descendants since
Gen. 4:1, 2 and 25 clearly say so), did not take place anywhere on earth
prior to 10,000 years ago. These things include raising crops, herding
animals, forging tools of copper and iron and building cities. (Gen. 4)
How, then, might we properly interpret Scripture in the light of science and anthropology?

Thank you in advance.

God bless,

DQ

PS: thank you for your replies to my previous thread.
 
Hi Deum—,

There is no percentage in trying to find reasons for accepting these genealogies literally. The old Biblical Commission recognized these problems and accepted that these passages may have to be interpreted otherwise than they would have to be if they had been written in modern times. It is a work in progress, and while this work goes on, we can concentrate on the message that they contain namely that all of us came from two parents and that these parents came from God, making us all brothers.

Verbum
 
It is a work in progress, and while this work goes on, we can concentrate on the message that they contain namely that all of us came from two parents and that these parents came from God, making us all brothers.
Dear Verbum,

Thank you for your reply. I understand that this is the situation at present, and am precisely seeking contributions to this “work in progress” that is the interpretation of these chapters. It is tempting enough simply to overlook the issue and await developments, but that will not get them done!

God bless,

DQ
 
Hi, DQ.

The answer to your question is this: The inspired writers were teaching inspired theology, not inspired history.
 
Interpreting the Genealogies of Genesis

Challenged with the idea that Adam’s date is 4004 BC and that the Flood occurred in 2238 BC, Robert Sungenis shows that, according to biblical chronology and archeological findings, these dates would be impossible, for it would leave only 66 years between Noah and Abraham. Read as Robert shows that the genealogies are actually a biblical calendar that takes us back to about the year 10,000 BC, with the Flood occurring around 5,000 BC.

more…
 
Isn’t Sungenis the same guy who believes in geocentricism?
 
What is the point? Does one point of view invalidate everything else?
The point is that the guy has no credibility anymore. I have one of his books and it’s absolutely brilliant. But since he’s gone off the deep end…
 
The point is that the guy has no credibility anymore. I have one of his books and it’s absolutely brilliant. But since he’s gone off the deep end…
Hmmm - so anything he wrote that is true is now false? I don’t think so.

No credibility? His writings just had the USBCC change the part about the Jews.
 
Dear fellow Catholics,

I would like to solicit replies only from those who believe in theistic evolution, since those of others would surely be but a deviation from the subject matter.

In 1890, Dr William Henry Green, in his article “Primeval Chronology”, put forth an exegetical framework in which to understand the genealogies of Genesis that might render them compatible with the findings of science.

I have, however, come across the following objection:

How, then, might we properly interpret Scripture in the light of science and anthropology?

Thank you in advance.

God bless,

DQ

PS: thank you for your replies to my previous thread.
The genealogies in Genesis aren’t intended to provide the reader with a “scientific” genealogy from Adam to Joe Six-Pack; they represent fragments of genealogies of peoples, families, and tribes, believed at the time to have been related to the children of Israel, and inserted into the book of Genesis by different writers because of that perceived relationship.

For example, the same genealogy (with slight modifications) appears in Genesis 4:17-22 and Genesis 5:12-27 (e.g., Cain/Cainan, Henoch/Henoch, Mathusael/Mathusale, Lamech/Lamech). The genealogies are included to teach us theological and moral lessons, not necessarily to help us map the genome. Thus, the tradition that gives us the story of Cain and his children abhorred cities; hence, Cain is the founder of the first city, and his descendents develop the trades associated with urban life (e.g., Jubal/musicians, Thubalcain/metal work, Noema/prostitute?).

Also, remember that the name of a person frequently becomes the name of a tribe or nation in the Old Testament (e.g., Jacob’s name is changed to Israel, and his descendants become Israelites or Israel). What we traditionally interpreted as references to people in Genesis could be references to tribes descended from common ancestors.
 
Hmmm - so anything he wrote that is true is now false? I don’t think so.
You apparently don’t understand what credibility is. Or you’re putting words in my mouth. I’m not sure which.

He went from being a person that I trust and would give the benefit of the doubt to {like a Karl Keating, Scott Hahn, Jeff Cavins, Jesse Romero, etc} to someone that I won’t automatically give the benefit of the doubt to anymore. That doesn’t mean what was “true is now false”
 
I’m reading the Jewish Publication Society Torah Commentary on Genesis, and just getting into some of these verses.

But, already, the author (don’t have this in front of me) is mentioning the uniqueness of Genesis.

Gen 1:1 to 2:3 seems to have been added on to an older text which then follows. He points out the structure of that section, with its emphasis on the heptad (7), which is brought out more in the Hebrew, it seems. He emphases how everything here demythologizes the creation myths of surrounding pagan systems, how monotheism was established. Later, there are other accomplishments in Genesis, such as the separation of prayer from sacrifice – a radical departure from spell and ritual and sacrifice in the pagan sects.

He points out the uniqueness of the names of God used in Genesis, and few used elsewhere, to underscore the uniqueness and antiquity of that writing.

There are twelve almost imperceptible divisions in Genesis. But, there is a repetition of Jewish phrases that create the divisions. From his review of the Talmud and other writings and modern criticisms, he wrote the commentary on the finished work, as we know it, rather than breaking it down into the many literary units that can be identified in the Hebrew, itself.

At this point, his commentary aimed at the “serious student” lays out the hypothesis that there are many gaps in the text (such as the passage of time in the account of Cain and Abel, from their births quickly to their adult occupations and conflict).

Perhaps his point of view is more polemical than analytical, as he emphasizes how Genesis contains these patchwork texts to establish and support the whole idea of the Jews as the Chosen People and how their relationship to God and to each other developed.

He doesn’t ignore the geneologies, but seems more interested in what purpose they serve, and he highlights the effect of redaction of the scroll over time. There are just things that the scroll just doesn’t tell us.

It’s also significant that the Torah ends with the death of Moses and with perhaps a telling remark, that “no greater prophet than he ever arose” in Israel, suggesting that the redaction was finished after all the other prophecies has been written.

I like looking at a commentary like this which is certainly stripped of Christological exegesis (although that serves a vital purpose in its own right) to look more at the literal sense and the meaning that comes out of it.

Right or wrong, the Talmud and other Jewish writings look at revelation as complete and interpretation handed over to the Rabbis. They look for all the little clues to help explain the questions that pop up over the text. They figure their job is never ended, and that Torah study (Talmud Torah) will go on until the end of time.
 
I’m reading the Jewish Publication Society Torah Commentary on Genesis, and just getting into some of these verses.

But, already, the author (don’t have this in front of me) is mentioning the uniqueness of Genesis.

Gen 1:1 to 2:3 seems to have been added on to an older text which then follows. He points out the structure of that section, with its emphasis on the heptad (7), which is brought out more in the Hebrew, it seems. He emphases how everything here demythologizes the creation myths of surrounding pagan systems, how monotheism was established. Later, there are other accomplishments in Genesis, such as the separation of prayer from sacrifice – a radical departure from spell and ritual and sacrifice in the pagan sects.

He points out the uniqueness of the names of God used in Genesis, and few used elsewhere, to underscore the uniqueness and antiquity of that writing.

There are twelve almost imperceptible divisions in Genesis. But, there is a repetition of Jewish phrases that create the divisions. From his review of the Talmud and other writings and modern criticisms, he wrote the commentary on the finished work, as we know it, rather than breaking it down into the many literary units that can be identified in the Hebrew, itself.

At this point, his commentary aimed at the “serious student” lays out the hypothesis that there are many gaps in the text (such as the passage of time in the account of Cain and Abel, from their births quickly to their adult occupations and conflict).

Perhaps his point of view is more polemical than analytical, as he emphasizes how Genesis contains these patchwork texts to establish and support the whole idea of the Jews as the Chosen People and how their relationship to God and to each other developed.

He doesn’t ignore the geneologies, but seems more interested in what purpose they serve, and he highlights the effect of redaction of the scroll over time. There are just things that the scroll just doesn’t tell us.

It’s also significant that the Torah ends with the death of Moses and with perhaps a telling remark, that “no greater prophet than he ever arose” in Israel, suggesting that the redaction was finished after all the other prophecies has been written.

I like looking at a commentary like this which is certainly stripped of Christological exegesis (although that serves a vital purpose in its own right) to look more at the literal sense and the meaning that comes out of it.

Right or wrong, the Talmud and other Jewish writings look at revelation as complete and interpretation handed over to the Rabbis. They look for all the little clues to help explain the questions that pop up over the text. They figure their job is never ended, and that Torah study (Talmud Torah) will go on until the end of time.
Here is something that helps:

The Toledoths of Genesis
 
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