Genealogy when families are so fragmented

[3DOCTORS]

Back when I was growing up I always hoped to have a marriage and children and grandchildren someday. And on both sides, for a long time, divorces and out-of-wedlock births were rare. The years went by and they became less rare - also remarriages, lack of religious belief, many blended families, even a cousin’s son who is in a gay relationship.

At one time I wanted to do a family genealogy and that was when there was still a chance to have children to pass it down to. I still would like to do one but some of the children of cousins are even unknown, some have been taken from parents with drug problems, etc. It’s quite a tangled scenario.

I guess I’m just wondering if anyone else has experienced this, and if it made you sad, but if you are still pursuing genealogy despite the obstacles. Thanks.

 

[roveau]

I think you should go ahead with the genealogy. If I come across illegitimate offspring, I include them with all the information about physical parents.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I guess I’m just wondering if anyone else has experienced this, and if it made you sad, but if you are still pursuing genealogy despite the obstacles. Thanks.

I did mine about 15 yrs ago when my Dad passed. What I did was go back as far as possible. I had to stop with my own parents generation, except for a few cousins I knew. Then I copied it and mailed it to all the family members I could locate and suggested if they sent me additions I would re-do it and send them edited versions.

Like tossing them down a well. But it might work for you. In any case, it was very interesting engaging work and I met a lot of nice folks online I am distantly related to who were grateful for my information.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Back when I was growing up I always hoped to have a marriage and children and grandchildren someday. And on both sides, for a long time, divorces and out-of-wedlock births were rare. The years went by and they became less rare - also remarriages, lack of religious belief, many blended families, even a cousin’s son who is in a gay relationship.

At one time I wanted to do a family genealogy and that was when there was still a chance to have children to pass it down to. I still would like to do one but some of the children of cousins are even unknown, some have been taken from parents with drug problems, etc. It’s quite a tangled scenario.

I guess I’m just wondering if anyone else has experienced this, and if it made you sad, but if you are still pursuing genealogy despite the obstacles. Thanks.

Yes, you should do it. Yes, you should include everyone in the family. Does either side have a reunion? That’s a perfect time to get out all of your info and let everyone add their dates, names, marriages, births and deaths to your chart. I managed to get a plotter to do my paternal side, still don’t have the recent births/deaths because I haven’t been to a reunion (we have them every other year) recently.

I was chasing my maternal side and came up with some very nasty information about a relative, that I would rather not know, frankly, but I do know now. So even back in the late 1800’s, there were scandals, crimes, illegitimate children, etc. It might be hidden or right out there, but you gotta name 'em and claim 'em. Unfortunately.

Pretend it’s someone else’s family if you have to. Detach from the drama and just get it all recorded. The next person who will carry your work on won’t care, it’s just the family history that’s important. Get as many stories recorded as you can, too. One of the most precious facts I got about my father, from my older cousins, was that he was invited to try out with a pro baseball team, but one of the close cousins was killed accidentally while working on a highway construction project, and Dad never got to go try out. I always knew my father had a mean throwing arm but never knew he might have gone pro!

 

[injenn00]

Yes, I have experienced this through my family and through my fiancee’s family. Now that I am to marry next year, I have been trying to retrace both of our family trees. Although we both have not had many family members go through re-marriages, there have been children borne out of wedlock and it is saddening to me as well.

I concern myself with it because I pray that our marriage will not be subject to such fate as I would like future generations to know their lineage.

God bless

 

[JaneGrey]

Why would ‘out of wedlock’ children ( i think illegitimate is a ridiculous term, however i understand that most use it without thinking about it) pose an added problem? I am genuinely curious. They are individuals who were not aborted, but more importantly, they are still family.

Are they harder to track down? I think doing up a family tree is always a great idea, regardless of whether one has kids to pass it down to or not.

 

[JaneGrey]

Yes, I have experienced this through my family and through my fiancee’s family. Now that I am to marry next year, I have been trying to retrace both of our family trees. Although we both have not had many family members go through re-marriages, there have been children borne out of wedlock and it is saddening to me as well.

I concern myself with it because I pray that our marriage will not be subject to such fate as I would like future generations to know their lineage.

God bless

I am curious as to why you think this affects your future generations?

God bless

 

[injenn00]

Why would ‘out of wedlock’ children ( i think illegitimate is a ridiculous term, however i understand that most use it without thinking about it) pose an added problem? I am genuinely curious. They are individuals who were not aborted, but more importantly, they are still family.

Are they harder to track down? I think doing up a family tree is always a great idea, regardless of whether one has kids to pass it down to or not.

I apologize, but I think I selected the wrong choice of words. I, too, do not agree with the term “wedlock” because it carries a negative connotation.

I do not believe the genealogy of the matter will pose a problem and I am all for creating a family tree, regardless if the child comes from a married couple or not.

The children borne out of marriage are loved nonetheless in our family. However, since our cultural tradition within my family is very structured (and strict), the elders frown heavily upon the parents who have children out of marriage. There are times that elders in my family do not recognize these children because they were not “properly” married through the Church. This saddens me because my family is Catholic and fails to practice Catholic virtues of loving a child regardless of where they came from.

Being the third generation in this country, I have been able to realize that the “tradition” my family has followed for years is not totally aligned with the Church’s teaching. I am trying to work with my family to reverse this thinking, but it has not been easy.

I’m sorry if it confused you. I realized that this was a personal problem and not one regarding the idea of genealogy.

 

[lizaanne]

There are technical ways to denote a marriage or birth relationship on a family tree when properly doing genealogy charts. I would suggest getting a really good book about how to properly document these non-traditional relationships so that future researchers who come across your documentation understand very clearly how everyone is connected.

It’s not as straight forward as just drawing a line between people - be sure to document according to genealogy standards and then there will be no questions in the future.

Ancestry.com is a good place to go - but it’s not a free site anymore.

~Liza

 

[injenn00]

I am curious as to why you think this affects your future generations?

God bless

I think I answered your question in my last post, but to also add…

Personally, this affects my family’s future generations because my family sometimes did not acknowledge the parents and/or children who were borne out of marriage. I know this sounds funny, but that’s how they are. We did a family tree together and the elders in the family did not even acknowledge a child who died at age 5 (they said it didn’t count).

This affects my family’s future generations because there may have been family members or children omitted because of this. Regardless of how significant a family member was in our family or not, I want my children to know as much about their lineage as possible. With my family being so “selective” in who to include in the family tree, there are parts that are missing that I’ll never find out because it wasn’t “right” to them.

However, it’ll affect future generations in a positive way, too. I find this as a “turning point” where my generation can throw out the old ways and start new. I want to include all children and family members regardless of marital statuses. I want my children to know who and what everyone did.

Again, I apologize for the confusion. If you noticed, it has much less to do with genealogy and more with my family’s cultural tradition. I believe you should pursue doing a family tree and I think it’s a great idea.

God bless

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think I answered your question in my last post, but to also add…

Personally, this affects my family’s future generations because my family sometimes did not acknowledge the parents and/or children who were borne out of marriage. I know this sounds funny, but that’s how they are. We did a family tree together and the elders in the family did not even acknowledge a child who died at age 5 (they said it didn’t count).

This affects my family’s future generations because there may have been family members or children omitted because of this. Regardless of how significant a family member was in our family or not, I want my children to know as much about their lineage as possible. With my family being so “selective” in who to include in the family tree, there are parts that are missing that I’ll never find out because it wasn’t “right” to them.

However, it’ll affect future generations in a positive way, too. I find this as a “turning point” where my generation can throw out the old ways and start new. I want to include all children and family members regardless of marital statuses. I want my children to know who and what everyone did.

Again, I apologize for the confusion. If you noticed, it has much less to do with genealogy and more with my family’s cultural tradition. I believe you should pursue doing a family tree and I think it’s a great idea.

God bless

All of your points are things that ALL genealogists or family historians must keep in mind when we start digging through the past! We sometimes uncover things that have been covered up for decades if not centuries, and it can cause disruption throughout the family. Children born out of wedlock, children born from adultery, even miscarriages or infants who died soon after birth, can be painful secrets that family members may not want to be brought out. It takes a lot of diplomacy to work through things like this!!

You are like all family historians - we want ALL of the information, but we have to be sensitive to others’ requests and to listen to their pain/frustrations. And sometimes, we find out information that even WE would rather not know!

 

[3DOCTORS]

Why would ‘out of wedlock’ children ( i think illegitimate is a ridiculous term, however i understand that most use it without thinking about it) pose an added problem? I am genuinely curious. They are individuals who were not aborted, but more importantly, they are still family.

Are they harder to track down? I think doing up a family tree is always a great idea, regardless of whether one has kids to pass it down to or not.

I’m with you - they are family. Didn’t intend to imply otherwise. It’s more the difficult-to-track-down issue as some have been adopted out. I don’t want to be nosy - a lot of my relatives are rather reticent. My interest in genealogy is partly to feel emotionally connected since I don’t have any living immediate family. Cousins, aunts and uncles are all I’ve got. I’d like to find a cousin or cousin’s child who’s interested and maybe work on it together. Some of them are on Facebook so maybe I’ll message them and see who has time and interest.

 

[JaneGrey]

I think I answered your question in my last post, but to also add…

Personally, this affects my family’s future generations because my family sometimes did not acknowledge the parents and/or children who were borne out of marriage. I know this sounds funny, but that’s how they are. We did a family tree together and the elders in the family did not even acknowledge a child who died at age 5 (they said it didn’t count).

This affects my family’s future generations because there may have been family members or children omitted because of this. Regardless of how significant a family member was in our family or not, I want my children to know as much about their lineage as possible. With my family being so “selective” in who to include in the family tree, there are parts that are missing that I’ll never find out because it wasn’t “right” to them.

However, it’ll affect future generations in a positive way, too. I find this as a “turning point” where my generation can throw out the old ways and start new. I want to include all children and family members regardless of marital statuses. I want my children to know who and what everyone did.

Again, I apologize for the confusion. If you noticed, it has much less to do with genealogy and more with my family’s cultural tradition. I believe you should pursue doing a family tree and I think it’s a great idea.

God bless

Yep you did answer my question already in the first post Yeah I was afraid that it was because some relatives would try to hide children born out of wedlock. And I agree that sort of attitude is more about the culture than it is Christianity. I can definitely relate. I think it is great that you do want future generations to know about ALL their ancestors. If nothing else, it is certainly necessary to know one’s medical history.
God bless

 

[JaneGrey]

I’m with you - they are family. Didn’t intend to imply otherwise. It’s more the difficult-to-track-down issue as some have been adopted out. I don’t want to be nosy - a lot of my relatives are rather reticent. My interest in genealogy is partly to feel emotionally connected since I don’t have any living immediate family. Cousins, aunts and uncles are all I’ve got. I’d like to find a cousin or cousin’s child who’s interested and maybe work on it together. Some of them are on Facebook so maybe I’ll message them and see who has time and interest.

Oh of course, as I mentioned above, I just wanted to make sure that the difficulties were not because of shame etc etc. Personally, I am forever curious about how Catholics perceive relatives born out of wedlock, and do the mental balancing between loving acceptance and dealing with the whole ‘scandal’ part. I would hope it wouldn’t matter but sadly to some it still does. I have been meaning to start a thread about it but never get round to it.

Ah i can see how being adopted out would certainly change things. I ve done some digging myself and I definitely feel a connection, when I say, find out a great grandmother’s name. I have also been lucky to find some relatives with names or middle names that I happened to already love. Have you met everyone in your extended family? (those that are still around, that is) I find that that makes such a difference
I ve had some relatives who didn’t really make an effort to get to know me until I myself went to meet them personally, and then once they got to know me as a person, a relationship could be forged. Of course, this doesn’t always happen but it is great when it does, and worth the try.

And definitely get it done with a cousin as you mentioned, there is certainly strength in numbers.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Oh of course, as I mentioned above, I just wanted to make sure that the difficulties were not because of shame etc etc. Personally, I am forever curious about how Catholics perceive relatives born out of wedlock, and do the mental balancing between loving acceptance and dealing with the whole ‘scandal’ part. I would hope it wouldn’t matter but sadly to some it still does. I have been meaning to start a thread about it but never get round to it.

Ah i can see how being adopted out would certainly change things. I ve done some digging myself and I definitely feel a connection, when I say, find out a great grandmother’s name. I have also been lucky to find some relatives with names or middle names that I happened to already love. Have you met everyone in your extended family? (those that are still around, that is) I find that that makes such a difference
I ve had some relatives who didn’t really make an effort to get to know me until I myself went to meet them personally, and then once they got to know me as a person, a relationship could be forged. Of course, this doesn’t always happen but it is great when it does, and worth the try.

And definitely get it done with a cousin as you mentioned, there is certainly strength in numbers.

No, no one has been hiding anything since I’ve been around. But the attitudes have changed. There was a lot of shame about a “shotgun wedding” and even a divorce that I think was due to some kind of intolerable situation, and the relative never remarried. These were parental generation relatives but I remember the attitudes back then when I was young.

When my own generation started having shotgun weddings - and then cohabitation, and in other ways drifting from the faith and morals of my grandparents’ or parents’ generation, now even the elders of the tribe just shrug and shake their heads in resignation. And to be honest, how does one find the balance between too much shame and embarrassment and not enough? For instance, better a shotgun wedding than a shame that leads to an abortion. But on the flip side, there’s all the hookups and shackups and whatnot and I can’t say I think that’s a good trend either.

I don’t know if some might be offended by the terminology I use but I’m not going to bend over backwards to be PC about it either. My own experience of the family and societal norms changing has been to observe with sadness and ponder what might have been.

Drug and alcohol problems and mental illness also played a part with some of the youngest generations’ children becoming wards of the state. It’s just commonplace these days in lots of families. And yet, for better or worse, they are my relatives and I would still like to know who they are. Meeting some of them may or may not be feasible, but it might happen.