General absolution in my parish - should I act?

[kage_ar]

Difficult to quote an imbedded quote, so…

"This disposition would exclude communal celebrations of the sacrament in which penitents are invited to present a written list of sins to the priest confessor. It should be noted that such innovations also risk compromising the inviolable seal of sacramental confession. "

I am not talking about a communal celebration, I am talking about individual “normal” confession, especially a first adult (for a convert) or for those who have been a way from the Church for a long time. Priests will advise them to make a list, not to hand over to the priest but to help make a good confession.

And there are many ways to destroy a bit of paper, burning, shreading, tearing it up and flushing it - I doubt anyone is going to dig in the city sewer to put back together someone’s sins list

 

[benedictgal]

Difficult to quote an imbedded quote, so…

"This disposition would exclude communal celebrations of the sacrament in which penitents are invited to present a written list of sins to the priest confessor. It should be noted that such innovations also risk compromising the inviolable seal of sacramental confession. "

I am not talking about a communal celebration, I am talking about individual “normal” confession, especially a first adult (for a convert) or for those who have been a way from the Church for a long time. Priests will advise them to make a list, not to hand over to the priest but to help make a good confession.

And there are many ways to destroy a bit of paper, burning, shreading, tearing it up and flushing it - I doubt anyone is going to dig in the city sewer to put back together someone’s sins list

You would be surprised, though. People are strange. Voyeurism exists.

In my case, I did not hand my list, I read it and the priest snatched it from me. The irony is that his order is quite liberal and this was one of the few times that he put his foot down on something. This led me to believe that even he found it rather bad, and, that’s coming from a rather liberal priest.

The bottom line is that when in doubt, leave it out.

 

[trials]

I believe I messed up people. I wanted to take some sort of discreet but effective action, but wasn’t courageous enough to take any action in the end on the Reconciliation event in our parish. I was afraid of stressing out our feeble and ill priest by either speaking directly to him or getting someone higher up to speak to him - so I did nothing. Big sin of omission.

I went to Mass this evening - a few posters wanted me to let them know how the service progressed. Our homily for Mass was about repentance and conversion, the priest said that after Mass and through the powers vested in him at his ordination he would be absolving people from their sins. As he had explained last week, it was through the format of queueing as at Holy Communion. There were no individual confessions, all the “recipient” had to say was Amen, while the priest recited the words of absolution over them. Our whole congregation was absolved in a couple of minutes. It was not specified that this service only covered venial sins - in fact our priest specifically said that any “whoppers” of sins we had would be absolved through this absolution.

I felt decidedly uncomfortable throughout. Especially when I heard one parishioner saying, “Yippee, I can go to Heaven now!” on the way out, and saw another mother pushing her teenage son up the aisle, saying “Go on, you don’t have to say anything, just get in the queue will you!” as if she was queueing for an undeserved lottery ticket.

Mea culpa.

 

[Melchior_1]

trials,

I wouldn’t beat yourself up over this. You had no way of knowing for sure how this would turn out, and having the different responses in here likely didn’t help matters. Now that we know for sure that this isn’t kosher, it would be prudent to take action. But you had NO way of knowing that it would turn out like this. Suspicions? Maybe. But no concrete evidence until it was too late.

Please don’t take this too hard. You did what you thought was right at the time, and now you know what you need to know to move forward.

 

[MarkThompson]

I’m sorry to hear that it turned out this way. It sounds like the priest did precisely what he said he was going to do. If the OP regrets that he did not have the courage to at least approach the priest beforehand to talk about the matter, he’s right to feel that way. Let’s please not kid ourselves that he “had NO way of knowing that it would turn out like this.” He had an easy way of knowing, which was simply to ask the priest.

I’m not trying to dump on the OP, just to point out two things: (1) hopefully this experience will give you the heart to act, the next time you’re faced with a situation like this, and (2) this only serves to emphasize the folly of the constant refrain, “Until you know for certain, it’s uncharitable to assume the worst / you can’t go running to Rome / you should wait and see what happens,” etc. Nothing in life is certain, but when someone says he is going to do X, it’s good to proceed on the assumption that he may very well be just about to do X. That’s what happened this time.

 

[Melchior_1]

Mark, I was referring that trials had no way of knowing without any direct evidence. Could trials have found out more information? Yes, but he didn’t. There’s no sense in people beating themselves up over something they can’t change. What’s done is done. Learn from it and move forward.

In this specific case, I think speaking with the Priest beforehand would have been best. No need to head up to the top of the food chain right away until a clear picture is given. Would you want someone to go over your head straight to your boss if they misunderstood you? Probably not.

 

[Michael_Vernon]

Brothers, please, don’t you see that talking about “the food chain” or the ecclesial hierarchy in this vein is to effectively speak of The Kingdom of God as though it were a bureaucracy? What about the Omniscience and absolute Justice of God? What about His overruling Sovereignty? What about the Power of the Holy Ghost as He works through the conscience of true believers? Please, let’s think about who it is that really regards sins as remitted or forgiven at the time of particular judgement. Do we really think that the Almighty is bound by our ecclesial rules and regulations? Let’s think about The Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world. Do we really think that our rules and regulations tie his Pierced Hands or stop The Water and Blood from flowing from His Riven Side? If protestants and unbelievers see these arguments, it will only give them reasons to disregard the real crux of our message. Why not rather turn the conversation to the reality and power of Divine Reconcilliation?

 

[mullenpm]

Benidictgal is absolutely correct. General absolution is a serious abuse.

Trials, why don’t you go to a different parish to make your Sacramental Confession. It is something that every Catholic should do every month. And please, don’t be swayed by those who believe there is no need to confess venial sins.:knight2::knight1:

Any sin is an affront to the Lord and offends him. In any event, a monthly confession would enable you to make the First Friday devotions and that will please Jesus very much.:harp:

 

[pnewton]

Trials, why don’t you go to a different parish to make your Sacramental Confession. It is something that every Catholic should do every month.

The precepts of the Church as given in the Catechism say every Catholic should go to confession once a year. CCC # 2042 says:

The second precept (“You shall confess your sins at least once a year.”) ensures preparation for the Eucharist by the reception of the sacrament of reconciliation, which continues Baptism’s work of conversion and forgiveness.[83]

 

[mullenpm]

pnewton, yes the Catechism says that it is our duty to go to Sacramental Confession just once a year.

That is the bare minimum. Is that how as Catholics we should live our spiritual lives. Oh well, I have only spent the last year gossiping about my neighbor, fighting with my co-workers, telling little “fibs”; etc., only venial sins so not to worry. I didn’t murder anyone - and I attended Mass every Sunday and every Holy Day of Obligation so no mortal sins. Once a year will do it.

We can only grew spiritually if we spend more than the ‘bare minimum’ of time in prayer and recollection. An Examination of Conscience should be part of our night prayers.

How can any Catholic participate in the devotions of First Friday and First Saturday without going to Confession once a month.

Being a Catholic is not for the faint of heart who want to chose what particular devotions or rules they do or do not agree with -or any that are too much trouble.

 

[pnewton]

Being a Catholic is not for the faint of heart who want to chose what particular devotions or rules they do or do not agree with -or any that are too much trouble.

Nor is Catholicism about telling others which devotional practices they should engage in. There are many ways one can do much more than the minimum. Adoration, the Rosary, daily Mass, more frequent Confession, First Friday, Novenas, Divine Mercy, etc. Each one must choose which is best for them. I know many excellent and extremely devout Catholics that make Confession four or five times a year, two or three times a year. In the case of the OP, there is no cause for concern. Simply slip of to confession elsewhere as often as one believes is appropriate. Obviously the OP is not satisfied with what happens, so go to confession again. The frequency is a personal choice.

 

[mullenpm]

pnewton, exactly - which is what I said.

You were the one who brought up the — only required to go to Confession once a year.

 

[benedictgal]

Mark, I was referring that trials had no way of knowing without any direct evidence. Could trials have found out more information? Yes, but he didn’t. There’s no sense in people beating themselves up over something they can’t change. What’s done is done. Learn from it and move forward.

In this specific case, I think speaking with the Priest beforehand would have been best. No need to head up to the top of the food chain right away until a clear picture is given. Would you want someone to go over your head straight to your boss if they misunderstood you? Probably not.

The OP should have had the courage to take a stand. Had you read the entire thread, you would have seen that this particular service was a sham and in direct violation of the nroms for the Sacrament of Penance. This went squarely against what the Vatcan had decreed. Now, many souls have been confused as to what the sacrament actually entailed. This was not a justifable means of imparting the Sacrament of Penance.

I, for one, am very disappointed in the OP. He should have had the courage to take a stand on this issue.

 

[benedictgal]

The precepts of the Church as given in the Catechism say every Catholic should go to confession once a year. CCC # 2042 says:

However, the Catechism, while a teaching document (that quotes the law in some cases), is not a legislative document. What happened in the OP’s case was gravely ilicit. The priest had no legitimate right to use General Absolution (except in grave conditions). The Holy See strongly reiterated that in its Circular Letter on the Integrity of the Sacrament of Penance. The OP does have cause for concern. What we do not realize is that perhaps there were people in mortal sin who needed to go to Confession. They were misled that this gesture was simply enough. This was wrong.

If people are going to start threads asking what action they should take in the case of a grave matter, and then not do anything, why bother bringing up the question?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

pnewton, yes the Catechism says that it is our duty to go to Sacramental Confession just once a year.

Canon Law states we must confess grave sins once a year. If someone has no grave sins then there is no requirement for confession. It would be most beneficial and helpful, however its not required.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

A typical CAF exchange:
Q. My priest said he is going to offer a Black Mass for the intentions of Lucifer, with Twinkies and Jack Daniels instead of bread and wine. I don’t know very much about Catholicism, is this permitted? I saw him put some Twinkies in the tabernacle.
A1. You must book a flight to Rome immediately. PM me for Cardinal Arinze’s apartment number.
A2. Are you sure you understood the priest correctly? Maybe he said, “for the intentions of Lucy,” that could be a parishioner’s name, right? And some types of bread, even unleavened bread, can look thicker, maybe that’s what you saw in the tabernacle? You said yourself that you don’t know much about Catholicism, so charity demands that you not judge this priest until you have full facts and understanding. Why don’t you attend the Mass and report back on your observations?

Wouldn’t it be nice if people would actually speak directly to their priests about things that concern them in their own parish. Even in this instance, it behooves the OP to talk to his priest before reporting anything to the bishop. Yes, a general absolution with no individual confession (however brief) IS a grave and serious abuse. But still it is best to be sure of your facts before accusing anyone.

 

[benedictgal]

Wouldn’t it be nice if people would actually speak directly to their priests about things that concern them in their own parish. Even in this instance, it behooves the OP to talk to his priest before reporting anything to the bishop. Yes, a general absolution with no individual confession (however brief) IS a grave and serious abuse. But still it is best to be sure of your facts before accusing anyone.

I think if you had read the entire thread, you would have noted that it was going to be a General Absolution situation all along.

 

[trials]

To those criticising my non-action - I know you’re right. I failed dismally. No excuses.