General Question about the Eastern Catholic Churches

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Hello everyone! New to the Eastern Catholicism forum here.

I often hear that the Catholic communities in the east are ‘in union with Rome’ without overt attempts at Latinization of their respective rites.

I would like to know in more explicit terms what this means. I assumed it meant their liturgy and other ‘disciplinary’ practices would be their own to guide, but regarding the uniting faith and doctrine, they would hold to the dogmas promulgated by the Roman See. But I have been a bit confused by a poster’s recent comments that one of the Eastern Catholic churches (I think it was Greek Melkite…?) doesn’t actually affirm a few of the dogmas declared by the Vatican (e.g. the Immaculate Conception).

Does ‘in union with Rome’ not mean what I assumed it to?

My apologies if I’ve misrepresented any viewpoints and do correct me swiftly.
 
I understand Eastern Catholic Churches to be of the Eastern Rite but closer to communion with the Bishop of Rome and the Holy See. As compared to Eastern Orthodox who are not in communion with the Holy See since the 1054 East vs West schism. The Eastern Catholic Rite has certain elements of Eastern Orthodoxy with fundamental tenets of being in communion with the Catholic Church.

. . .
 
Hello everyone! New to the Eastern Catholicism forum here.

I often hear that the Catholic communities in the east are ‘in union with Rome’ without overt attempts at Latinization of their respective rites.

I would like to know in more explicit terms what this means. I assumed it meant their liturgy and other ‘disciplinary’ practices would be their own to guide, but regarding the uniting faith and doctrine, they would hold to the dogmas promulgated by the Roman See. But I have been a bit confused by a poster’s recent comments that one of the Eastern Catholic churches (I think it was Greek Melkite…?) doesn’t actually affirm a few of the dogmas declared by the Vatican (e.g. the Immaculate Conception).

Does ‘in union with Rome’ not mean what I assumed it to?

My apologies if I’ve misrepresented any viewpoints and do correct me swiftly.
It literally means that, at the level of the primatial bishop & the governing synod, there is submission to the authority of the pope and to the validity of all other Catholic Churches also in union, as well as acceptance of the orthodoxy of the Dogmatic declarations. Each such church has its own synod of bishops (except for the very smallest few, which have only one bishop, and the Russian Catholic Church, which has no bishops, only priests), and each has its own rules for liturgical praxis, and for obligation. The 8 Byzantine Catholic Churches share the vast majority of their praxis, with only trivial differences; these derive from the Byzantine praxis (Constantinoplean praxis), and hence are of the Byzantine Rite.

In practice, it also means being able to validly receive any sacraments from the appropriate ministers of the other churches. The partial exception is ordination; one must be ordained to serve within one’s own rite, tho technically that ordination need not be by a bishop of the same rite as to which one is being ordained.

Example: A dominican brother is to be ordained a deacon; it is discovered he is Ukrainian Church by canonical enrollment, and thus Byzantine Rite. He can either be ordained a Byzantine Rite deacon, and encouraged to serve as a Byzantine deacon in one of the 8 Byzantine Churches in Union with Rome, or he can change his canonical enrollment. In at least one case I know of, he was ordained as a Byzantine. He served in a Roman parish after having been assigned there, with permission of the Roman Archbishop of the place… but he wore only the byzantine stole, not the roman.

There is also the matter of Canonical Enrollment. One is technically a member of only one of the 23 churches in union. One is said to be canonically enrolled in that specific church. One can change that enrollment, but so doing is not to be taken lightly, and it is considered a life-long change, unless done when getting married, or by one’s parents. Certain very rare circumstances can justify a second change; for example a wife may return to her original canonical enrollment upon being widowed, or a child under 8 may return to the Rite and Church of their baptism at their coming of age.

Further confusion occurs since certain non-Catholic churches have more limited forms of permission to share the reception of sacraments with Catholics. But those churches are not properly in union with rome.

Further, most of the Churches in Union with rome have counterparts that are not in union, but share the same liturgical traditions and Rite.
 
Just a slight correction!

There are 14, not 8, Byzantine Catholic Churches in communion with Rome and with each other.
 
Dear brother Chris,
Hello everyone! New to the Eastern Catholicism forum here.

I often hear that the Catholic communities in the east are ‘in union with Rome’ without overt attempts at Latinization of their respective rites.

I would like to know in more explicit terms what this means. I assumed it meant their liturgy and other ‘disciplinary’ practices would be their own to guide, but regarding the uniting faith and doctrine, they would hold to the dogmas promulgated by the Roman See. But I have been a bit confused by a poster’s recent comments that one of the Eastern Catholic churches (I think it was Greek Melkite…?) doesn’t actually affirm a few of the dogmas declared by the Vatican (e.g. the Immaculate Conception).

Does ‘in union with Rome’ not mean what I assumed it to?
Brother Aramis gave a wonderful explanation. However, immediately after this statement from him:
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Aramis:
It literally means that, at the level of the primatial bishop & the governing synod, there is submission to the authority of the pope and to the validity of all other Catholic Churches also in union, as well as acceptance of the orthodoxy of the Dogmatic declarations.
I would add that the acceptance of the orthodoxy of the Dogmatic declarations does not depend on the acceptance of the specific language of the dogma. East, West, and Orient have different theological language, and sometimes different definitions of the same terms. Several of the dogmas of the Catholic Church is specifically couched in WESTERN theological language, which is quite different sometimes, and even SEEMINGLY opposed, to the theological language of the Easterns or Westerns.

A perfect example is just such the dogma you have expressed concern about - the Immaculate Conception.

You see, “original sin” has a different definition in the Eastern and Oriental Churches than in the Western Church. Accordingly, you might hear Easterns say that they reject the dogma of the IC (I’ve rarely, if ever, heard an Oriental reject it), but what that really only means is that they reject the LANGUAGE of the dogma of the IC.

If you need further explanation, let us know, and I or someone else better qualified than myself, will explain it to you.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
In the hymnody of the Byzantine Churches, Our Lady is frequently described as “immaculate” (ACHRANTOS in Greek).

We don’t inquire as to what this holy mystery means. We are content to live with mysteries, and even unresolved paradoxes.
 
A little human sidebar on the above post:

I once took an old Ukranian Catholic priest on vacation with me for 2 weeks at my house in San Sebastain de Garabandal, Spain.

During a “side trip” to Lourdes during that vacation, I asked him about the Dogma of The Immaculate Conception.

I will always remember the answer given to me in his thick Ukranaina accent;it makes me laugh thinking about it 20 years later:“Tomack(he called me this instead of my name"Tom”) ve dont need a dagma to believe dis in the Eastern Right.
Vee alvays believed that The Theotokis vas free from sin!!"
 
I often hear that the Catholic communities in the east are ‘in union with Rome’ without overt attempts at Latinization of their respective rites.
“Latinization” often refers to things like pews in church, statues of the saints, devotions associated with the Latin church like the 1st Friday devotion.

In the west, some Eastern parishes have adopted these kinds of “Latinizations” , not particularly suprising with intermarriages between Greek and Roman Catholics and the close proximity of the communities.

There has also been some discouragement of these “latinizations”.
 
There are three major types of Latinization:

That of Mode of Worship.
That of Environment.
That of Doctrine & Theology.

By Mode of Worhsip, that includes things such as public rosaries, the use of the filioque, the addition of adoration and benediction outside the divine liturgy, the use of westernized musical forms in the divine liturgy. To many, it is the most insidious of latinizations, for it denies the deposit of Faith of the Byzantine Tradition.

The latinzations of environment are both more obvious and less damaging: pews, kneelers, removal of the iconostasi, installation of Stations of the Cross, wearing of mantillas instead of scarves, icons labeled in English rather than Greek, Russian, or Slavonic.

The latinizations of Doctrine and Theology include the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the filioque, some changes to the propers of the day, changes to the Irmosi, poor translations of the liturgy. In my opinion, this is the most dangerous change… for it is often done for reasons other than authenticism.
 
icons labeled in English rather than Greek, Russian, or Slavonic
Does this really count as a Latinization? I think it’s actually an authentic Byzantine tradition: using the local language for worship.
 
Does this really count as a Latinization? I think it’s actually an authentic Byzantine tradition: using the local language for worship.
Absolutely not. There are some fine icons with inscriptions in Arabic, Ukrainian, Romanian, English and other vernacular languages that are completely faithful to the iconographic tradition.

I think the concept of latinization is a complex one that involves many centuries of development. Some of these developments were external, some were internal, and some politically motivated. It is also an ongoing process as some churches are attempting to move away from historical latinizations, while others appear to be moving towards more modern and contemporary forms (sometimes referred to as neolatinization).

If you want to understand better what the implications of union with Rome are for the various Eastern Catholic Churches, it would be good to study the language of the particular unions between the hierarchies of those Churches and Rome.
 
Does this really count as a Latinization? I think it’s actually an authentic Byzantine tradition: using the local language for worship.
It is, generally, not considered a latinization; It is, however, more common in highly latinized parishes, at least looking at the parish pictures…
 
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