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marywarfield
Guest
So is it your contention that the woman of 12 stars
is simply all Christians?
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is simply all Christians?
P
pianistclare
Guest
:clapping:
There. Someone finally said it.
I was wondering just yesterday after the umpteenth “I don’t “get” Mary” thread was posted…that Jesus, being fully human and fully Divine…
in His humanity…hurts every time someone purposely diminishes His mother’s role in salvation history…the seemingly anti-Marian rhetoric doesn’t hurt ME, but it most certainly saddens Him.
Thanks for your post.
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marywarfield
Guest
Yes. And the apathetic response by Catholics to whatI stumbled across that site a while back. I was strangely comforted to be “lumped in” with the Catholics. We must be doing something right
But yeah, he’s gone 'round the bend IMO.
is pretty much the work of Satan was addressed by
Cardinal Ratzinger some years ago before he became
Pope. In that he foresaw that Catholics were losing
the faith that evil exists and the reality of demonic
activity. One of the ways we do this is by glossing
over and ignoring attacks on Mary.
K
KP3243
Guest
-It’s says Hail full of Grace. Mary didn’t speak Greek which Luke wrote in, she would have spoken Aramaic Hebrew and what is Chavvah? is the Hebrew word for Woman, the only other time that name shows up in scripture is in Genesis in talking about Eve. Remember Mary isn’t frightened by the Gabriel’s presence like Zachariah is in the Temple she is frightened by how he addressed her. Gabriel’s prophesy to Daniel about the coming of the Messiah in the “70 /weeks” was at fever pitch around this time in Israel. Mary knew exactly what Gabriel meant.
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marywarfield
Guest
And this where we run into trouble with lumping
Protestants. Most Protestants of the Reformation
accepted Mary as she was portrayed by the Catholic
Church in some form. That includes Zwingli, Calvin and Luther.
But today the splinter groups reject even the Marian
dogma that these three retained.
So are all Protestant groups the same? Of course
not. Some are closer “to the mother ship” as someone
commented before.
Protestants. Most Protestants of the Reformation
accepted Mary as she was portrayed by the Catholic
Church in some form. That includes Zwingli, Calvin and Luther.
But today the splinter groups reject even the Marian
dogma that these three retained.
So are all Protestant groups the same? Of course
not. Some are closer “to the mother ship” as someone
commented before.
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ltwin
Guest
No. My contention is that just because Mary was a vessel does not make her the ark of the covenant.
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KP3243
Guest
Why not? Every New Testament type is greater than the Old Testament type. Mary carried the word made flesh, the great high priest and the living bread from heaven (please read John 6…carefully and note John 6:66 which you fall under) these are all greater than the stone tablets, the robes of Aaron and the manna from heaven without question. So would not Mary be greater than the original vessel that carried those, the Ark of the Covenant? Seriously. Gabriel calls her the new Eve the mother of the living, no one else in human history has been given this title and had it announced to them by none other than an Archangel who sits before the throne of God Almighty!
E
EvangelCatholic
Guest
Regarding the blessed Virgin, there are Lutherans who are unaware of what the Lutheran Confessions profess about St Mary and Luther’s devotion to the Mother of God. I think there is a valid point that some Protestants view Mary thru the misunderstandings and, frankly, react to excesses by some Catholics. The Lutheran liturgical calendar put more emphasis on the Marian holy days now including August 15th so we are rediscovering our relationship to blessed Virgin Mary.
Agreed. The negative influences of pietism and other protestant groups such as the Reformed are finally fading.
Jon
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Per_Crucem
Guest
Good riddance.
K
KP3243
Guest
Mary by virtue of being the mother of Christ, the first born of all creation, is more our mother than even our own birth mother. That is why Gabriel greets her as he does. Mary is the mother of the living, she is the new Eve or rather since God is all knowing, He knew Eve would disobey Him, so Mary was in His plan from the beginning to bring life to mankind, to be the Woman.
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Peter_J
Guest
Indeed. And this may seem like a small point, but I try to help by writing “protestants”, not “Protestants”. I mean consider this, which statement would you say is correct (emphasis added):
Lutherans, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox (and others) are Catholic.
or
Lutherans, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox (and others) are catholic.
?
(The correct answer is “The latter.”
)
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Peter_J
Guest
I’m not sure whether Mary(warfield I mean) was serious or not, but I shouldn’t be surprised if she was making a little parody of her own.
P.S. Then again, many portions of this thread (particularly the later parts) have a bit of a “parody” feel to me.
K
KP3243
Guest
Read Mark Shea’s Mother of the Son he flat out says as a former Evangelical Mary gives Protestants the woollies and I know Fundamentalists who reduce her to a mere vessel! Chris Padgett wrote Wholly Mary because when he finally understood what the Church meant he felt he had the obligation to set the record straight for people. His misunderstanding of Mary almost kept him away from coming into the Church even though he knew the Eucharist was really Jesus.Indeed. And this may seem like a small point, but I try to help by writing “protestants”, not “Protestants”. I mean consider this, which statement would you say is correct (emphasis added):
Lutherans, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox (and others) are Catholic.
or
Lutherans, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox (and others) are catholic.
?
(The correct answer is “The latter.”
For what it’s worth, I’m a life-long Catholic and I’ve never met a protestant who finds Mary creepy, nor have I even heard any Catholic claim that such protestants exist till now. (Then again, I don’t think I’ve read any posts by KP3243 before now, so IDK maybe he/she has made this claim often.)
S
SeekerWillie
Guest
And as a life-long Protestant (who is now moving toward the Roman Catholic Church), I’ve never met one who finds Mary creepy, either. I can’t speak for other Protestants, but I was wrongly told that Catholics “worship” Mary. That was the problem, according to what I was told.
Interestingly, as I began looking into Roman Catholicism, I found it very easy to accept the Church’s reverence for Mary. She seems to be a sticking point for some people in their conversion process, but happily, not for me.
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marywarfield
Guest
I find nothing amusing about hatred toward Mary. It doesn’tI’m not sure whether Mary(warfield I mean) was serious or not, but I shouldn’t be surprised if she was making a little parody of her own.
P.S. Then again, many portions of this thread (particularly the later parts) have a bit of a “parody” feel to me.
matter if it is a comedy site, a political site, or a fundamentalist
site I see no comedy here.
I guess because it is a secular site you find no sadness
at Mary being discussed in such a disgusting fashion?
It makes it somehow less harmful and less hateful
than the speech on the other link?
Where is my parody Peter? In what areas did
you think I was joking?
K
KP3243
Guest
If you find correcting people about our Blessed Mother’s role in Salvation History humorous or satirical turn the computer off and go read your Catechism. It’s out of charity for all of our brothers and sisters in The Lord that people correct one another.I’m not sure whether Mary(warfield I mean) was serious or not, but I shouldn’t be surprised if she was making a little parody of her own.
P.S. Then again, many portions of this thread (particularly the later parts) have a bit of a “parody” feel to me.
K
KP3243
Guest
Gabriel would have addressed Mary in Hebrew, and likely would have begun his annunciation with the greeting: חוה pronounced “cha-ve” meaning “Live” as in “Long live the king” or “Viva Papa” or “Viva Christo Rey.” according to Genesis 3:20, the Hebrew name of Eve is חוה or “cha-va” meaning “living” because, as the Holy Spirit explains, Eve is the “Mother of the Living.”
This shows that there is indeed a mystical meaning in the original Hebrew greeting of Gabriel to Mary. Moreover, this further links Mary as the New Eve! It also reveals that the Latin Vulgate version captures the original Semitic meaning through an Indo-European root.
Ave is the Latin version of the angel’s greeting in the Vulgate. In the original Greek version of Luke, Saint Gabriel says, “Chaire,” not the Latin “Ave.” it isn’t until you realize Gabriel would have spoken to Mary in Hebrew that the greeting takes on a monumental meaning.
This shows that there is indeed a mystical meaning in the original Hebrew greeting of Gabriel to Mary. Moreover, this further links Mary as the New Eve! It also reveals that the Latin Vulgate version captures the original Semitic meaning through an Indo-European root.
Ave is the Latin version of the angel’s greeting in the Vulgate. In the original Greek version of Luke, Saint Gabriel says, “Chaire,” not the Latin “Ave.” it isn’t until you realize Gabriel would have spoken to Mary in Hebrew that the greeting takes on a monumental meaning.
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marywarfield
Guest
The topic is generalizations correct? Problem is
when referring to non Catholic religions with such a broad
term huge misconceptions occur.
For instance Protestants hate Mary or find her creepy.
Thats not true-not all Protestants do. Though I find it interesting
so many on this thread who are not Catholic but not
Fundamentalist either immediately jump to proclaiming
“that NO Protestant finds Mary creepy”. That’s not true
either not by a long shot.
One can’t take the myriad of non Catholic so called
Christian and
bonafide Christian religions together and make a
statement that is true of them all except- they reject
the Catholic Church. That is the ONLY commonality
they hold. So if not Protestant- then what? Rejectors?
Disputers? Opposers? Frankly I find Protestant to be
a very civil term.
In the case of those who do find Mary creepy well
we run into the problem if they are even Christian.
Consider the oft used statement: Mary was only an
incubator. Hmmmm.
Is that kind of hardness of heart and objectifying of
her maternity reflective AT ALL of any relationship
to Jesus Christ?
when referring to non Catholic religions with such a broad
term huge misconceptions occur.
For instance Protestants hate Mary or find her creepy.
Thats not true-not all Protestants do. Though I find it interesting
so many on this thread who are not Catholic but not
Fundamentalist either immediately jump to proclaiming
“that NO Protestant finds Mary creepy”. That’s not true
either not by a long shot.
One can’t take the myriad of non Catholic so called
Christian and
bonafide Christian religions together and make a
statement that is true of them all except- they reject
the Catholic Church. That is the ONLY commonality
they hold. So if not Protestant- then what? Rejectors?
Disputers? Opposers? Frankly I find Protestant to be
a very civil term.
In the case of those who do find Mary creepy well
we run into the problem if they are even Christian.
Consider the oft used statement: Mary was only an
incubator. Hmmmm.
Is that kind of hardness of heart and objectifying of
her maternity reflective AT ALL of any relationship
to Jesus Christ?
P
Peter_J
Guest
I didn’t say that you were or that you weren’t. The point of my post was not jumping to conclusions about you.
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