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EvangelCatholic
Guest
Very interesting observations
I know of the Order of St Luke, a Methodist lay order: saint-luke.net/
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I know of the Order of St Luke, a Methodist lay order: saint-luke.net/
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steido01
Guest
Could be sooner if the secular world continues to bar Christians from loving public lives. Strangely, I find myself pondering whether it’s a blessing that the Secular Left continues to gain momentum - the more powerful it becomes and the more it persecutes Christians, the easier it is for Christians to see the real Enemy and the closer we bind together. Paul’s exhortation to “rejoice in our sufferings” and whatnot.
That said, I’d much rather unity were pursued under happier circumstances.
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Faithdancer
Guest
If their captain is Jesus Christ, how can they be mutineers?
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Darryl_B
Guest
The question is, if their captain is Jesus Christ, WHY would they be mutineers?
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KP3243
Guest
Well, to be fair, in ages past bishops and other high ranking church officials often lived extremely well, while others in within the church and the general society lived in quite depressing circumstances.
Right, which is exactly why I stated when any priest or Bishop does live in excess, it is scandalous to us and condemned and its news worthy. I was very pleased with Pope Francis in dealing with the Bishop in Germany recently and I will be curious to see how he deals with the Bishop in Newark and Atlanta as well as the details in these cases. We have to close Catholic schools in urban cities for financial reasons where they are most needed and when the Bishop gets a schnazy new residence for a few million is the utmost hypocrisy.
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KP3243
Guest
To be fair, what you describe is “hard prosperity gospel.” Most people who fall into the prosperity gospel camp don’t adhere to the “hard prosperity gospel.” They believe what scholars term “soft prosperity gospel.” Soft PG does not tell people that people are sick or poor because of their own sin.
Perhaps this is why I have such a hard time understanding the various groups of Protestants, I do better with Anglicans and Lutherans, I don’t understand how you can hold a doctrine as part of your deposit of faith but there are varying degrees of it. Perhaps the clarity of Catholicism makes it hard for me to wrap my head around it, like the Eucharist is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ not every Catholic (cough a good number of American Catholics) understands this or can wrap their head around it which is a huge problem for another discussion but the Church doesn’t waiver on this is position and there aren’t any Catholics or Church leaders who hold a different opinion. We don’t have Catholics who proclaim they are symbolic believers in the Eucharist or soft Eucharist believers. We have people who state they are pro-Choice Catholics which is completely against Church teaching they are in dissent and can have the Eucharist taken away from them by their Bishop like Secretary Seblius but there is reproof on those who don’t follow Church teachings.
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KP3243
Guest
Not that I’m defending excessive wealth, but I do think it’s only fair to point out that much (maybe all) of his income comes from book sells. He’s written books that have sold extremely well and no doubt the royalties make his lifestyle possible.
Like I said in my post, I have no problems with people who have wealth Saint Katherine Drexel and Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton would have been American multimillionaire close to a billionaires in today’s terms a lot of monasteries, seminaries and Catholic schools in Northeast including Seton Hall were built by Seton after she converted to Catholicism, I just find it odd that a man or woman of God would purposely choose to drive a Maserati considering how humble a life Jesus purposely chose to live himself. Trust me I get that Catholics have had their share of leaders and laity who didn’t lead humble lives. The excess living and hypocrisy was one of the reasons for the Reformation -you can’t serve two masters. This is not to say Joe Osteen isn’t a humble person or a bad person I just find it odd that’s all.
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Faithdancer
Guest
I do not believe that the only faithful followers of Jesus Christ are those who claim membership in the Roman Catholic Church. Sticking with the ship analogy, then, those in the “smaller boats heading in the same direction” are not mutineers against Jesus Christ.
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dronald
Guest
I was thinking this recently as well.Could be sooner if the secular world continues to bar Christians from loving public lives. Strangely, I find myself pondering whether it’s a blessing that the Secular Left continues to gain momentum - the more powerful it becomes and the more it persecutes Christians, the easier it is for Christians to see the real Enemy and the closer we bind together. Paul’s exhortation to “rejoice in our sufferings” and whatnot.
That said, I’d much rather unity were pursued under happier circumstances.
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Faithdancer
Guest
According to Holy Scripture, there already is unity among all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. There simply isn’t unity under Rome.
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KP3243
Guest
Are you saying Rome doesn’t unite over a billion of people all over the world in every nation on earth or that Christians don’t have to be united with Rome to be Christian? Because if it is the former you are suggesting, then I would strongly disagree with you. The unity that Rome brings is absolutely unheard of if it isn’t divinely backed then Rome is an organizational genius. Catholics can go to Mass in Rome, Rio, Jakarta, Knock, Miami, Damascus, London, Moscow and all the scripture readings will be the exact same its why you can be a Catholic anywhere in the world and be at home in Church even if you don’t speak the native language you can read the scripture readings a head of time and participate in the mass because that doesn’t change at all, God undoes the penalty of Tower of Babel at Pentecost which is the birthday of the Catholic Church.
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Darryl_B
Guest
And using the same analogy of the ship, as history has shown over courses of generations those smaller boats eventually veer off, and the people who notice it swim back to the ship.I do not believe that the only faithful followers of Jesus Christ are those who claim membership in the Roman Catholic Church. Sticking with the ship analogy, then, those in the “smaller boats heading in the same direction” are not mutineers against Jesus Christ.
Incidentally “membership” is something you do to a club and put in your signature, faith is what you put in your religion.
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Peter_J
Guest
The sins of one’s forebears have a very long shadow, at least in some cases. For example, consider the sins of King Henry VIII (noting that the Church of England is often referred to, by Catholics and Evangelicals alike, as “the Church of Henry VIII” and the like).
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Faithdancer
Guest
I put my faith in Jesus Christ.
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Faithdancer
Guest
It is the latter.
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marywarfield
Guest
And so do we. Our authority, just as you claim for yourself,
comes from Jesus Christ through His apostles and His Word.
The fallacy in your whole argument is somehow
you and others who reject the authority of the Church
seem to believe that while Christ, through the Holy
Spirit, will make Himself clear to you by yourself when
reading the Scripture but at the same time won’t do
the same for any of the millions of Catholics, Bishops,
Cardinals, priests, and Pope. Now does that really
make ANY sense? How are YOU so divinely favored
by God while the rest of the planet is just skipped
over, so to speak?
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Darryl_B
Guest
There are those who answer the first point and ignore the rest of what is said, but then there are those who answer the last point and ignore the rest of what is said.
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Darryl_B
Guest
So to word this statement correctly it should readI do not believe that the only faithful followers of Jesus Christ are those who claim membership in the Roman Catholic Church. Sticking with the ship analogy, then, those in the “smaller boats heading in the same direction” are not mutineers against Jesus Christ.
And therein lies a statement of faith. And therein lies a mystery.
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Peter_J
Guest
Forgive me for being a “stickler”, but there really is no Roman Church. There’s the Roman Rite and there’s the Roman Communion, but no Roman Church.I do not believe that the only faithful followers of Jesus Christ are those who claim membership in the Roman Catholic Church. Sticking with the ship analogy, then, those in the “smaller boats heading in the same direction” are not mutineers against Jesus Christ.
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KP3243
Guest
Protestantism only really works in the West where there is an extraordinarily large emphasis on the individual not the group and what the individual wants. Catholicism works universally because it is a family.
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