Generalizations of Protestants

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GKC said:
The 20,000 - 30,000- 40,000 figures usually derive from either WORLD CHRISTIAN TRENDS, or its sister publication, WORLD CHRISTIAN ENCYCLOPEDIA, scholarly works edited by David Barrett which appear regularly. Here’s a quote from the editors about how the figures are derived:

"Thank you for your inquiry. I can assure you that the figure of 39,000 is in no way inflated. This number represents our most current, up-to-date data. As we are constantly updating this figure, it is not published in print form. The figure of 33,800 from the year 2000 was printed in our book World Christian Trends, (Pasadena, CA: William Carey Library, 2001). Part 12 of World Christian Trends (WCT), Table 12-1 gives figures of denominational totals for all 238 countries of the world. These figures are also represented graphically in WCT on page 917, Global Map 14. The definition for denominations used in WCT, and also in our publication World Christian Encyclopedia (Oxford, 2001) is as follows:

“Any agency consisting of a number of congregations or churches voluntarily aligning themselves with it. As a statistical unit in this survey, a ‘denomination’ always refers to one single country. Thus the Roman Catholic Church, although a single organization, is described here as consisting of 236 denominations in the world’s 238 countries.”

Note that the total of the RCC “denominations” has nothing to do with sui juris Churches, or anything other than the number of countries in which the RCC has a formal presence.

I occasionally post this info. It never makes any difference. There are a lot of protestant denominations. How many, I don’t know. But the usual numbers given in discussions like this reflect the idiosyncratic methodology of these publications.

GKC
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I dont find the number of “denominations” in protestantism awkward, I would say there are 40000 worldwide easy (its actually a small number but a number that is 40000 too large because the answer to the question is 1). But the one thing they have in common, is the desire to replace that which was lost by protesting the Catholic Church, and when they don’t find it, they start a new church.
 
Darryl_B said:
I dont find the number of “denominations” in protestantism awkward, I would say there are 40000 worldwide easy (its actually a small number but a number that is 40000 too large because the answer to the question is 1). But the one thing they have in common, is the desire to replace that which was lost by protesting the Catholic Church, and when they don’t find it, they start a new church.
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You may certainly say 40,000 if you wish. If you have anything comparable to the Barret figures to support it, more power to you. If not, thank you for your participation. But the Barrett figures are not saying there are 40,000 protestant denominations, as one would usually think of the term. No more than one would accept there are 236 RCC denominations.

Those figures are artifacts of how Barrett’s group counts things. It’s their studies; they get to do that.

GKC
 
GKC said:
You may certainly say 40,000 if you wish. If you have anything comparable to the Barret figures to support it, more power to you. If not, thank you for your participation. But the Barrett figures are not saying there are 40,000 protestant denominations, as one would usually think of the term. No more than one would accept there are 236 RCC denominations.

Those figures are artifacts of how Barrett’s group counts things. It’s their studies; they get to do that.

GKC
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Yes I will say 40000 protestant denominations from the mere fact that I am in walking distance of 20 churches, and I am in a small part of the world. But as I said, that is not really the point I am making. The point I am making is there is something missing in protestantism that is causing that divide, and I believe the answer is found in only one place.
 
Darryl_B said:
Yes I will say 40000 protestant denominations from the mere fact that I am in walking distance of 20 churches, and I am in a small part of the world. But as I said, that is not really the point I am making. The point I am making is there is something missing in protestantism that is causing that divide, and I believe the answer is found in only one place.
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And, as I have said before, in discussing this, that last comment is all that you need to say. To make your point, any number more than one is too many.

Or you may say 40,000, if you like, based on your own conclusions. The next poster may say 30,000; same reasoning.

GKC
 
GKC said:
And, as I have said before, in discussing this, that last comment is all that you need to say. To make your point, any number more than one is too many.

Or you may say 40,000, if you like, based on your own conclusions. The next poster may say 30,000; same reasoning.

GKC
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So since I can potentially attend 20 churches without even getting into my car, but there is only one Catholic Church among those, what does that say about protestantism? The question is generalization of protestantism, and in general, it is okay to set up 19 other churches?
 
Darryl_B said:
So since I can potentially attend 20 churches without even getting into my car, but there is only one Catholic Church among those, what does that say about protestantism? The question is generalization of protestantism, and in general, it is okay to set up 19 other churches?
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You’re having a discussion I’m not interested in. I post on the 40K figures, regularly. Not much use to it, but I do.

I don’t doubt someone here will talk to you on your point.

GKC
 
KP3243 said:
Ok so based on your calculations how many different types of Protestants are there then if you aren’t going to us these studies even though one comes from a Protestant seminary?
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I don’t know, there are lots, but not 40,000 unless your using Barrets weird mythology.
 
GKC said:
You’re having a discussion I’m not interested in. I post on the 40K figures, regularly. Not much use to it, but I do.

I don’t doubt someone here will talk to you on your point.

GKC
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Okay. I am sure there are others who are more interested in things beyond 40000.🙂
 
KP3243 said:
They can say that but they lack any authority and no one recognizes them as the Catholic Church. It’s a perk of having the Chair of Peter and Apostolic succession people know who is Catholic and what the Church believes. The groups you mention are just modern herseys or in schism they are no different than the Arians or Gnosticism or Marcionism like I said before, hopefully we will all be one again.
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The EOs and OOs would take exception to you calling them modern heresies. For them YOU are the modern, new fangled denomination.
 
GKC said:
You may certainly say 40,000 if you wish. If you have anything comparable to the Barret figures to support it, more power to you. If not, thank you for your participation. **But the Barrett figures are not saying there are 40,000 protestant denominations, as one would usually think of the term. **
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I think you’re right. I can’t say that revelation bothers me to much, since I regard the “40,000 denominations” line as one of the weakest polemics that exist. :o
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Can you name a few? I am familiar with the Gordon Conwell study which made the same error that I enumerated above.
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Oh no lol. I don’t keep up. I only mention it because PEW doesn’t really
differentiate between mainstream Protestant and non denominational.
So when Hartford does, one wonders do we rightly call this huge
non denominational presence Protestant or not?
And again one wonders what PEW views as “other” Christian?
 
GKC said:
And, as I have said before, in discussing this, that last comment is all that you need to say. To make your point, any number more than one is too many.

Or you may say 40,000, if you like, based on your own conclusions. The next poster may say 30,000; same reasoning.

GKC
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I stay away from this number. I’d not be surprised if it was in the 1,000’s however.
 
marywarfield said:
And again one wonders what PEW views as “other” Christian?
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“Other” Christians are defined as:
Members of other Christian groups self-identify as Christian although older Christian traditions may view them as distinct from mainstream Christianity. Many of these groups – including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Christian Science Church – originated in the United States. These groups often depart from traditional Christian beliefs with respect to the trinitarian nature of God and have additional sacred texts beyond the Christian Bible and/or their own authoritative interpretations of the Bible. For example, the canon of the Mormon church includes four texts: the Bible (both Old and New Testaments), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that “Christ is God’s Son and is inferior to Him” as well as that the destruction of the present world system at Armageddon is imminent.15 They prefer their own Bible translation, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.16 Christian Science was founded by Mary Baker Eddy (1821-1910). Her 1875 book, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, is one of its central texts, along with the Bible.17 Other groups in this category include the Unification Church, Swedenborgians and Christadelphians.
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Protestants are defined as those churches originating during the Protestant Reformation, including Anglicanism as well as churches that originated later, such as the Methodists. Pew notes that these churches tend to include “belief in grace through faith alone (known as sola fide or ‘by faith alone’), belief in the Bible as the ultimate authority in matters of faith and order (known as sola scriptura or ‘by scripture alone’) and belief in the priesthood of all believers.”

Another group that Pew defines as Protestant is what Pew calls “Independent Christians.” These are Christians defined as having “developed ecclesial structures, beliefs and practices that are claimed to be independent of historic, organized Christianity.” These include:
. . . denominations in sub-Saharan Africa that identify as independent from historically Protestant denominations, churches in China that are not affiliated with official religious associations and nondenominational churches in the United States.
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See pewforum.org/2011/12/19/global-christianity-traditions/#defining
 
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