Generational Healing Mass

[benedictgal]

These are the facts, not personal opinions:

Generational healing masses differ substantially from the normal healing Masses that we have had around for years. In essence the people who advocate these type of masses say that your ancestors sins can and do affect you and you family today. Something along the lines of a generational curse. One of your great great great ancestors did something and you still carry the stain from it. So, individuals and families who are often and maybe repeatedly assailed by depression, illness, financial worries, accidents, bad relationships etc etc. could find that they are not the victims of happenstance or sheer bad luck. NO, the cause can be and often is a curse :bigyikes: which may have originated in a previous generation.

Now knowing that aspect of the equation, you can pretty clearly see that the intent behind the generational or family tree Mass as it is sometimes called, conflicts with Catholic theology totally.

In the Catholic faith the Sacrament of Baptism washes away the stain of original sin, which is handed down to all of us. It also forgives all sins that we have committed up to that point in our lives. Also just for good measure the Catholic Church has never taught that a persons sins could be passed down to their ancestors or that those sins could cause any objective harm to those who did not in fact commit them.

Now there are religions that believe that the sins of the parent **ARE **passed on to the child AND BEYOND. In fact the book of Exodus actually says so in certain cases, so at at least some point in history the Jews believed it. There are others who believe that Baptism DOES NOT forgive anything at all and is not sacramental in nature. Most protestants fall into that category…

NEITHER IS A TRUE REPRESENTATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCHES TEACHING.

Since adhering to one or the other of these two beliefs is essential for one to accept what the generational healing Masses purport to be for it it is reasonable to assume that the believers have drifted off into some non Catholic practices and beliefs,

Masses offered for the dead are offered for them, NOT for us and to solve OURdifficulties.

Some Bishops have outlawed them altogether in their dioceses. Others have a kind of indifference to them and a few allegedly support them, although I could find no hard evidence for that.

I would think that staying away from them would not be a really bad idea.

AMEN!!!

The Masses we offer are applied to the souls of our loved ones. I have the custom of offering several Masses for my beloved mother and grandparents. I also offer Masses for my step-grandfather. Even though we did not have a good relationship, I am obligated to intercede for him as well. God, in His Infinite mercy, knows best when to apply these graces and merits.

What we also need to focus on is our own sinful nature. We are washed clean of original sin through the waters of Baptism. However, our sinful tendencies remain. That’s why we keep sinning. It’s a vicious cycle. But, through prayer, a good solid regimen of going to Confession often and receiving Holy Communion at Mass, we are able to make some headway. However, to blame our ancestors for all of our problems is completely ludicrous.

My mother was a neat freak. My dad is one, as well. I am a slob. If you add the equation of neat freak + neat freak, that should have produced another neat freak. But, it didn’t. I realize this is a strange approach to looking at the matter of generational sins, but, folks do apply this similar equation in these matters. Of course, I am still recovering from doing the math at our caucus convention on Tuesday night (I’m from Texas), so, bear with me.

It reminds me of the question Jesus’ apostles posed to him regarding the man born blind (this past Sunday’s Gospel). They ask Jesus, “Master, was it this man’s sin or the sin of his parents that caused him to be blind?” Jesus said, “No. It was neither his sin nor his parents’ sin. Rather, it was so that the glory of God be made manifest.” Therefore, if Jesus didn’t subscribe to their line of thinking, that should give you a big clue.

I hope this helps.

 

[otjm]

Interesting that you would say that since the entire Catholic charismatic movement began as the direct result of ecumenical activities with protestant groups **and **with the request of those Catholics present at these activities to receive baptism of the Holy Spirit from a non Catholic, Presbyterian I believe it was, pastor.

As the Presbyterian community is firmly rooted in reformation principles, Calvinists actually to a great degree, they would clearly be classified as protestants. Since the Catholic Charismatic renewal movement was born from association with them and from the aforementioned baptism of the Holy Spirit performed by them, there is most certainly something very protestant about it. No matter how much these groups try to claim they are an organic growth that sprang from within the Catholic Church they are not and did not.

To say otherwise displays at best a denial of what the movement is truly concerned with and where it actually came from.

Where it came from was the Holy Spirit. Whether of not a protestant, or a group of protestants may have prayed that Catholics would receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit does not taint what the Holy Spirit chooses to do. Pope John Paul 2 spoke a number of times, and positively of the Charismatic movement. One might remember that while Protestants have gone down a wrong road on doctrinal and disciplinary issues, we all worship the same Christ. The Catholic Church has the fullness of faith; but it also acknowledges that Protestants are not totally devoid of that faith. So let’s move on, shall we?

 

[benedictgal]

Where it came from was the Holy Spirit. Whether of not a protestant, or a group of protestants may have prayed that Catholics would receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit does not taint what the Holy Spirit chooses to do. Pope John Paul 2 spoke a number of times, and positively of the Charismatic movement. One might remember that while Protestants have gone down a wrong road on doctrinal and disciplinary issues, we all worship the same Christ. The Catholic Church has the fullness of faith; but it also acknowledges that Protestants are not totally devoid of that faith. So let’s move on, shall we?

Might I also remind you that while Pope John Paul II also spoke positively about the Neocatechumenal Movement, they have also had some very major problems, especially where the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was concerned. Pope Benedict XVI complimented them on their catechesis, but, took them to task (and to the woodshed) about their grave liturgical abuses.

That being said, there are some adherents of the Catholic Charismatic Movement that may say or make claims that do run contrary to what the Church teaches. When that happens, a little word called “discernment” comes in mighty handy. After all, St. Paul encourages us to “test things.” This certainly applies to the issue of these so-called generational healing Masses.

One last thing: there are many movements, but, there is one TrueChurch, the Catholic Church. No movement can or should be more important than the Church. When we make the movements (LifeTeen, Cursillo, Charismatic, NeoCatechumenal, Opus Dei, etc) more important than the Church, we are treading on dangerous grounds. And, that certainly does not come from the Holy Spirit.

 

[otjm]

We seem to be focused in two directions here.

One direction is about generational curses, and the sins of the fathers and what that has to do with the sons.

The other question is the validity of generational healing Masses.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist, or for that matter, someone with a Ph.D. in Sociology to be aware of the fact that what parents do can and does have a serious impact on their children; and unless and until their children deal with some of those issues, they too will likely exhibit problems in raising their children.

A specific issue is families in which the father exhibits physical and emotional violence to the mother. There is a much greater likelyhood that male children in these families will also have issues with violence against their spouses; and in turn there is also ample evidence that female children will often enter into marriages/living situations in which they are abused as an adult by their spouse/boy friend.

Another classic example is families in which the parent is a repeat criminal; the incidence of the children also becoming criminals is statitstically much more likely. The list goes on and on, to anyone who has paid much attention to the findings of sociologists.

Is there a need for a healing Mass? Per se, no. Is it within the confines of ortodox Catholic thought that Christ can bring healing to those who have been damaged through either physical or emotional abuse? Does that question ebven have to be asked? One does not have to posit “curses” nor rely on out of context statements from the Old Testament to see that people harm other people, and the other people who are harmed are often the children. Can healing Masses be abused, or can someone go off the deep end over such things? Given the history of the Church for 2000 years, of course anything good can be misused, misapplied, abused. That is not a valid reason to not have a healing Mass or to attend one.

 

[palmas85]

Where it came from was the Holy Spirit. Whether of not a protestant, or a group of protestants may have prayed that Catholics would receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit does not taint what the Holy Spirit chooses to do. Pope John Paul 2 spoke a number of times, and positively of the Charismatic movement. One might remember that while Protestants have gone down a wrong road on doctrinal and disciplinary issues, we all worship the same Christ. The Catholic Church has the fullness of faith; but it also acknowledges that Protestants are not totally devoid of that faith. So let’s move on, shall we?

I stand by what I wrote. I presented the facts. If I wrote one thing that is not accurate please point it out without a lot of hyperbole to obscure the facts. There was no charismatic movement in the Church until the event I described. And it happened as I described. Even the charismatics themselves boast about it on their websites.

Was it the doing of the Holy Spirit?. I don’t know. I have never seen or heard anything to indicate that it is any more then it is for the protestants. A heartfelt emotional experience that can be brought on in many different ways. To people who enjoy this emotional release in their worship it is probably very pleasant indeed.

Unfortunately, I look back and see where the charismatic movement came from and what some of the earliest manifestations of it were.:bigyikes:

The Church allows it. It does not require that I believe in its validity or accept what it teaches. Even in these generational healing Masses that we are talking about here.

 

[otjm]

Might I also remind you that while Pope John Paul II also spoke positively about the Neocatechumenal Movement, they have also had some very major problems, especially where the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was concerned. Pope Benedict XVI complimented them on their catechesis, but, took them to task (and to the woodshed) about their grave liturgical abuses.

That being said, there are some adherents of the Catholic Charismatic Movement that may say or make claims that do run contrary to what the Church teaches. When that happens, a little word called “discernment” comes in mighty handy. After all, St. Paul encourages us to “test things.” This certainly applies to the issue of these so-called generational healing Masses.

One last thing: there are many movements, but, there is one TrueChurch, the Catholic Church. No movement can or should be more important than the Church. When we make the movements (LifeTeen, Cursillo, Charismatic, NeoCatechumenal, Opus Dei, etc) more important than the Church, we are treading on dangerous grounds. And, that certainly does not come from the Holy Spirit.

I am aware of all you said, and nothing I said runs the contrary. The issue seems to be that the Charismatic movement must be taintied since in its origins, Protestants were praying that Catholics might receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I did not suggest that the Charismatic movement is necessary or even important to any particular person; simply that we need to get over the issue of its origins. Its origins are ultimately with the Holy Spirit. Some seem to deny that; I side with John Paul (and do not suggest his corrections were wrong, either). Wherever there is good work by God, the devil is not far behind, attempting to take truth and twist it. That does not mean that truth is not truth; only that we need to stay focused - and that focus is on Christ.

 

[benedictgal]

We seem to be focused in two directions here.

One direction is about generational curses, and the sins of the fathers and what that has to do with the sons.

The other question is the validity of generational healing Masses.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist, or for that matter, someone with a Ph.D. in Sociology to be aware of the fact that what parents do can and does have a serious impact on their children; and unless and until their children deal with some of those issues, they too will likely exhibit problems in raising their children.

A specific issue is families in which the father exhibits physical and emotional violence to the mother. There is a much greater likelyhood that male children in these families will also have issues with violence against their spouses; and in turn there is also ample evidence that female children will often enter into marriages/living situations in which they are abused as an adult by their spouse/boy friend.

Another classic example is families in which the parent is a repeat criminal; the incidence of the children also becoming criminals is statitstically much more likely. The list goes on and on, to anyone who has paid much attention to the findings of sociologists.

Is there a need for a healing Mass? Per se, no. Is it within the confines of ortodox Catholic thought that Christ can bring healing to those who have been damaged through either physical or emotional abuse? Does that question ebven have to be asked? One does not have to posit “curses” nor rely on out of context statements from the Old Testament to see that people harm other people, and the other people who are harmed are often the children. Can healing Masses be abused, or can someone go off the deep end over such things? Given the history of the Church for 2000 years, of course anything good can be misused, misapplied, abused. That is not a valid reason to not have a healing Mass or to attend one.

First of all, let’s look at the whole issue, here. At the time of Jesus, Ancient Israel believed that if a person was born with some sort of deformity or suffered a calamity (as evidenced in the Book of Job), it was because either the individual personally sinned or his family had done some evil thing.

The apostles addressed this very issue with Jesus in last Sunday’s answer. Jesus answer was a flat out “No.”

Of course, God, Himself, several centuries earlier, had put the whole matter to rest with Job, since it wasn’t Job’s fault that all of those terrible things happened to him. It was a test from God. Thus, it wasn’t an issue of whether or not Job’s personal sinfulness or his “evil” ancestors caused him to suffer. It came from God for a purpose.

Ancient Israel had some sort of understanding about the evils of sin. That’s why both Job’s friends and the Apostles reasoned that maladies happened to people because of sin. Sin mars our relationship with God and with our fellow man. It uncreates us and deforms us.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, together with regular confession, helps to restore that beauty. However, because it is obviously too late for the faithful departed to make use of the Sacrament of Penance, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is applied to them. We may also earn plenary indulgences on their behalf as well. Furthermore, as I noted in an earlier post, the entire month of November is dedicated to the Holy Souls.

Now, my concern with these so-called generational Masses is that because the Church does not have propers, texts and prayers dedicated for this Votive liturgy (and it is one, as there are votive Masses for the Dead), we shouldn’t not take it upon ourselves to invent rituals, propers, texts and prayers that the Church does not have. That is what the Neocats got in trouble for doing.

 

[otjm]

I stand by what I wrote. I presented the facts. If I wrote one thing that is not accurate please point it out without a lot of hyperbole to obscure the facts. There was no charismatic movement in the Church until the event I described. And it happened as I described. Even the charismatics themselves boast about it on their websites.

Was it the doing of the Holy Spirit?. I don’t know. I have never seen or heard anything to indicate that it is any more then it is for the protestants. A heartfelt emotional experience that can be brought on in many different ways. To people who enjoy this emotional release in their worship it is probably very pleasant indeed.

Unfortunately, I look back and see where the charismatic movement came from and what some of the earliest manifestations of it were.:bigyikes:

The Church allows it. It does not require that I believe in its validity or accept what it teaches. Even in these generational healing Masses that we are talking about here.

You presented facts which seem to be an attempt to besmirch the movement. I side with the previous pope. As I said, a healing Mass is not nexcessary; God can do His work in whatever fashion He sees fit, and is not bound by us having to do things in a certain way.

The question by the OP was not if healing Masses were necessary; it was whether or not they fit within orthodox Catholic thought. They fit.

If you don’t need healing from anything having to do with how your parents raised you, then you are truly blessed. Others are not so blessed. I spent 12 years dealing with people who were abused - some horribly - and with others who were abusers, and I got to see up close and personal what people could do to one another, and what the results were from that abuse. I am all for healing. Perhaps you don’t think anyone ever has a problem, or that they make it up, or they are just psychological weaklings. Or perhaps you just don’t think that they need healing. I truly cannot figure where you are coming from; either you are naive as to what goes on in the world, or perhaps you truly don’t believe that miracles can occur. Or perhaps you just want to get into denying that the Holy Spirit can give His gifts to Catholics. Frankly, I don’t care. I am ultimately trying to answer the OP as to the validity of healing Masses.

Can it go too far? Of course, like anything good, the devil is not far behind trying to work against whatever God seeks to do among us. The Charismatic movement, or just about any other aspect of what the Church does officially, or allows within orthodox praxis can go too far. Throughout the centuries, the Eucharist has been abuse; do we then stop having Masses? Of course not; we address the abuse, and acknowledge the good.

 

[palmas85]

You presented facts which seem to be an attempt to besmirch the movement. I side with the previous pope. As I said, a healing Mass is not nexcessary; God can do His work in whatever fashion He sees fit, and is not bound by us having to do things in a certain way.

The question by the OP was not if healing Masses were necessary; it was whether or not they fit within orthodox Catholic thought. They fit.

If you don’t need healing from anything having to do with how your parents raised you, then you are truly blessed. Others are not so blessed. I spent 12 years dealing with people who were abused - some horribly - and with others who were abusers, and I got to see up close and personal what people could do to one another, and what the results were from that abuse. I am all for healing. Perhaps you don’t think anyone ever has a problem, or that they make it up, or they are just psychological weaklings. Or perhaps you just don’t think that they need healing. I truly cannot figure where you are coming from; either you are naive as to what goes on in the world, or perhaps you truly don’t believe that miracles can occur. Or perhaps you just want to get into denying that the Holy Spirit can give His gifts to Catholics. Frankly, I don’t care. I am ultimately trying to answer the OP as to the validity of healing Masses.

Can it go too far? Of course, like anything good, the devil is not far behind trying to work against whatever God seeks to do among us. The Charismatic movement, or just about any other aspect of what the Church does officially, or allows within orthodox praxis can go too far. Throughout the centuries, the Eucharist has been abuse; do we then stop having Masses? Of course not; we address the abuse, and acknowledge the good.

Explain to me how a generational healing Mass, whose purpose is to somehow remove a curse of some sort that follows your family through generations fits within Catholic theology. I don’t believe that the Church teaches that the sins of our forefathers are somehow responsible for our pitfalls and problems today as the generational masses would have us believe. The generational healing Masses are not the same as a normal healing Mass. That is the issue and that is why they have been banned in some areas already.

The facts I presented are the facts. I did not make them up.

 

[otjm]

Explain to me how a generational healing Mass, whose purpose is to somehow remove a curse of some sort that follows your family through generations fits within Catholic theology. I don’t believe that the Church teaches that the sins of our forefathers are somehow responsible for our pitfalls and problems today as the generational masses would have us believe. The generational healing Masses are not the same as a normal healing Mass. That is the issue and that is why they have been banned in some areas already.

The facts I presented are the facts. I did not make them up.

Having been to generational healing Masses, I find your statement of facts not to be the facts as I observed them. Curses? No. Sin? Yes, the damages caused were caused by sin. Perhaps you do not believe in the cleansing power of Purgatory. I saw nothing that was contradictory to anything I know of my faith. Perhaps your experience was otherwise. Or perhaps you simply paint with a broad brush; when something somewhere goes astray, then automatically anything that even sounds like it is also astray. Have you even been to a healing Mass? Or are you just expounding? Are they facts that you have read about, or have you actually observed?

 

[palmas85]

Having been to generational healing Masses, I find your statement of facts not to be the facts as I observed them. Curses? No. Sin? Yes, the damages caused were caused by sin. Perhaps you do not believe in the cleansing power of Purgatory. I saw nothing that was contradictory to anything I know of my faith. Perhaps your experience was otherwise. Or perhaps you simply paint with a broad brush; when something somewhere goes astray, then automatically anything that even sounds like it is also astray. Have you even been to a healing Mass? Or are you just expounding? Are they facts that you have read about, or have you actually observed?

The sins of my forefathers are not in any way responsible for my behavior today/ I don/t quite grasp where you are coming from. These particular type of masses take a tremendous leap from catholic theology and present things in an entirely new way.

No one will deny that we are all shaped in some degree or another by the experiences of the past. But to believe that the wrongdoing of my great grandfather may in some way be responsible for my sins today is just plain wrong. God is not going to judge me by what they did nor is He going to punish me for what they did as those who put on these masses would have you believe.

Again, we are not talking about a typical healing Mass. The generational healing Mass is a completely different thing. You don’t seem to grasp that.

 

[peregrine]

thank you, many good points have been brought out( i.e. no propers or text). BUT Could someone please explain St.Paul in Romans 5:12-19 and the Catholic Cathechism #953&817 because it is within the context of these that the Priests that do these Masses are in favor of them. P.S. I still haven’t heard from the Chancellor of my Diocese or the Priest I emailed from this site.

 

[benedictgal]

Having been to generational healing Masses, I find your statement of facts not to be the facts as I observed them. Curses? No. Sin? Yes, the damages caused were caused by sin. Perhaps you do not believe in the cleansing power of Purgatory. I saw nothing that was contradictory to anything I know of my faith. Perhaps your experience was otherwise. Or perhaps you simply paint with a broad brush; when something somewhere goes astray, then automatically anything that even sounds like it is also astray. Have you even been to a healing Mass? Or are you just expounding? Are they facts that you have read about, or have you actually observed?

Now let’s look at the mechanics of these so-called generational healing Masses. What are the propers, prayers and texts from the Lectionary that are used? Remember. While we do have creativity, this only allows us to use solely those propers, prayers and texts from the Lectionary that the Church provides. There are votive Masses for the Dead and for the Sick. However, having looked at the propers, prayers and texts from the Lectionary for these Masses, I don’t find anything that would remotely indicate some sort of “generational healing.”

We need to look at how this Mass is being celebrated and what propers, prayers and texts from the Lectionary are used (if any). We cannot make up our own propers, prayers and then select texts that are not given in the Lectionary. The only one who can do that is the Holy See. To my knowledge, I don’t know of any bishops conferences that have petitioned for the necessary recognitio from the Holy See for this kind of Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

thank you, many good points have been brought out( i.e. no propers or text). BUT Could someone please explain St.Paul in Romans 5:12-19 and the Catholic Cathechism #953&817 because it is within the context of these that the Priests that do these Masses are in favor of them. P.S. I still haven’t heard from the Chancellor of my Diocese or the Priest I emailed from this site.

Are the one in favor of these Masses using them to back up their claims, then? Here is what St. Paul has to say in the section peregrine highlighted (taken from D-R):

12 Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death: and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. By one man… Adam, from whom we all contracted original sin. 13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin was not imputed, when the law was not. Not imputed… That is, men knew not, or made no account of sin, neither was it imputed to them, in the manner it was afterwards, when they transgressed the known written law of God. 14 But death reigned from Adam unto Moses, even over them also who have not sinned, after the similitude of the transgression of Adam, who is a figure of him who was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also the gift. For if by the offence of one, many died: much more the grace of God and the gift, by the grace of one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto condemnation: but grace is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace and of the gift and of justice shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore, as by the offence of one, unto all men to condemnation: so also by the justice of one, unto all men to justification of life. 19 For as by the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners: so also by the obedience of one, many shall be made just.

It would be a stretch to say that these so-called Generational Healing Masses stem from this rather strange interprtation of the section from Romans. What St. Paul is saying is that Jesus’s singular act of perfect obedience undid Adam’s act of disobedience. And, Jesus’ perfect sacrifice is the means for our salvation.

As far as the section 953 of the Catechism, this speaks more of the fact that the Church Militant (us), the Church Triumphant (those already in heaven) and the Church Suffering (the souls in purgatory) are united. All of us make up the Church:

953 Communion in charity. In the sanctorum communio, “None of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself.” “If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.” “Charity does not insist on its own way.” In this solidarity with all men, living or dead, which is founded on the communion of saints, the least of our acts done in charity redounds to the profit of all. Every sin harms this communion.

Yes, every sin harms this communion; however, the ones in purgatory are in a state of purification for the sins they committed in their lifetime. We must make amends for what we are doing right now. We help our brothers and sisters in purgatory by offering Masses, rosaries and gaining indulgences for them. The Church Triumphant prays and intercedes for us. That is why we have recourse to the saints.

Bottom line is that we have to read Sacred Scripture as the Church reads it.

 

[benedictgal]

I also looked up 817 in the Catechism and thought that this reference was rather odd as a means of substantiating the claim of the proponents of the “generational healing Mass”:

817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:

This speaks more about heresy, schism and the break-aways from the Church than the idea of offering suffrage for the dead. It seems more like something completely out on left feld, as opposed to something that would help their argument.

 

[otjm]

The sins of my forefathers are not in any way responsible for my behavior today/ I don/t quite grasp where you are coming from. These particular type of masses take a tremendous leap from catholic theology and present things in an entirely new way.

No one will deny that we are all shaped in some degree or another by the experiences of the past. But to believe that the wrongdoing of my great grandfather may in some way be responsible for my sins today is just plain wrong. God is not going to judge me by what they did nor is He going to punish me for what they did as those who put on these masses would have you believe.

Again, we are not talking about a typical healing Mass. The generational healing Mass is a completely different thing. You don’t seem to grasp that.

It would appear that you are unfamiliar with a good deal of both psychological research, as well as sociological research. And I am not talking about bubblegum psychology or New Age BS. I am talking about solid, well researched issues. Again, I ask: have you ever been to a healing Mass, or are you just relying on gossip? I have heard nothing about curses at the Masses I have attended; but I have clearly seen the results on people who have been abused, and seen and heard the research on generational abuse.

As to responsiblity for sin, even pre-Vatican 2 moral theology recognized to some extent that people may be less responsible than others for the same type of sin given certain circumstances. And the Church recognizes that abuse, particularly violent and sustained abuse, can seriously impact a person’s abilities to make correct and sound moral decisions.

I have never said that anyone is responsible for the sin of a parent or grandparent, nor have I ever heard any such statement at a healing Mass; I most certainly have heard that the “sins of the father” are visited on the children" and have seen the impact. That they, the children have need of healing of that impact is without question to anyone with enough observatory powers to see the impact.

Then again, there are those who simple mindedly presume either that the children are weaklings to be despised in their weakness, or that viciousness by parents has no impact.

 

[palmas85]

It would appear that you are unfamiliar with a good deal of both psychological research, as well as sociological research. And I am not talking about bubblegum psychology or New Age BS. I am talking about solid, well researched issues. Again, I ask: have you ever been to a healing Mass, or are you just relying on gossip? I have heard nothing about curses at the Masses I have attended; but I have clearly seen the results on people who have been abused, and seen and heard the research on generational abuse.

As to responsiblity for sin, even pre-Vatican 2 moral theology recognized to some extent that people may be less responsible than others for the same type of sin given certain circumstances. And the Church recognizes that abuse, particularly violent and sustained abuse, can seriously impact a person’s abilities to make correct and sound moral decisions.

I have never said that anyone is responsible for the sin of a parent or grandparent, nor have I ever heard any such statement at a healing Mass; I most certainly have heard that the “sins of the father” are visited on the children" and have seen the impact. That they, the children have need of healing of that impact is without question to anyone with enough observatory powers to see the impact.

Then again, there are those who simple mindedly presume either that the children are weaklings to be despised in their weakness, or that viciousness by parents has no impact.

You keep talking about healing Masses. We are NOT discussing healing Masses. We are discussing the concept of generational healing Masses. I refer you to the following, which provides a pretty good description of what they are.
catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=25913

These are the Masses that we are referring to not the healing Mass as most people know it.

 

[peregrine]

yes, exactly-I think there is confusion with the Healing Masses and the Family-tree or Generational (intergenerational)healing Masses.
The Cancellor called me yesterday and I tried to explain as best as I could. He said he had never heard of this type of Mass but said that since the Priests I mentioned were in good standing it meant that what they were doing was probably OK and that it was probably just a “healing” Mass. So again, no real definite answer. I still wonder about the article from Catholic On-line about the Korean Bishops condemning these Masses- I mentioned that article to the Chancellor but he did not know about it and said maybe it was something different. Back to square on -forget it , Oivay, I give up

 

[brotherhrolf]

My friend Palmas will understand this. My cathedral parish has a relic of Blessed Father Seelos which is used for the monthly healing Mass. This is a “healing” Mass in which those that are sick come forward to be blessed with the relic. Fr. Seelos died from yellow fever in New Orleans ministering to the plague victims.
That’s what I call a “healing” Mass.

I don’t need to be “healed” because my great grandfathers held and sold slaves. What does their sin have to do with me? The very concept of generational healing Masses is antithetical to Catholic theology.

Here’s another thought. Just how far back, generation wise, do we go? If I had a Norse ancestor, Ragnar the Vicious, should I be healed for his deeds a thousand years ago? I asked this very question of my brother and, of course, didn’t get an answer.

 

[blossom02]

I’m confused by the mention of curses and sin in the same context.

I thought a sin was a sin committed against God by an individual and a curse is somthing put on another by occult members or by someone wishing to do evil to another.

Sins need to be forgiven and a curse needs to be removed.

Many people can be oppressed by the actions of others and would need deliverance. Maybe I’m wrong but I think we are talking about 2 different things.

I have never heard of this type of Mass but I have heard of the need of exorsism and healing Masses. What is the difference here and what is the goal of this Mass.