C
Coder
Guest
Genesis 4:7 (and several other Hebrew Scriptures) would seem to say that man has the ability to overcome sin despite the inclination.
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V
Vico
Guest
Gen 4:7 If thou do well, shalt thou not receive? but if ill, shall not sin forthwith be present at the door? but the lust thereof shall be under thee, and thou shalt have dominion over it.
Ver. 7. Over it. This is a clear proof of free-will. To destroy its force, Protestants translate over him, as if Cain should still retain his privilege of the first-born, notwithstanding all his wickedness, and should rule over Abel, who would willingly submit, “unto thee his desire,” &c. But God had made no mention of Abel. The whole discourse is about doing well or ill; and Cain is encouraged to avoid the stings of conscience, by altering his conduct, as it was in his power, how strongly soever his passions might solicit him to evil. (Haydock)
— The Hebrew is understood by Onkelos, and the Targum of Jerusalem, in the sense of the Vulgate. The latter reads, “If thou correct thy proceedings in this life, thou wilt receive pardon in the next world. But if thou do not penance for thy sin, it shall remain till the day of the great judgment, and it shall stay, lying at the door of thy heart. But I have given thee power to govern thy concupiscence: thou shalt sway it, either to embrace good or evil.” Calmet shews that the Hebrew perfectly admits of this sense. St. Augustine will not allow of the turn which the Manichees gave it. "Thou shalt have dominion over (illius.) What? thy brother! (absit) by no means: over what then, but sin? (City of God xv. 7.) Protestants formerly abandoned the translation of 1579, (which they have again resumed) and translated better, “unto thee shall be the desire thereof, and thou shalt rule over it,” which R. Abenezra explains also of sin. To which of these editions, all given by royal authority, will Protestants adhere? Luther wrote a book against free-will, and Calvin would not admit the very name. But we, with all antiquity, must cry out with St. Jerome, contra Jov. 2: “God made us with free-will, neither are we drawn by necessity to virtue or vice; else where there is necessity, there is neither damnation nor reward.” (Worthington; Haydock)
C
Coder
Guest
Thank you. Doesn’t this also seem to say that man is not automatically condemned by God (i.e. this was centuries before Jesus came)?
V
Vico
Guest
Do you mean condemnation occurring as a necessary consequence of sin?
There is the possibility of repentance.
C
Coder
Guest
I don’t know Genesis 4:7 (and many other Hebrew Scriptures) seems to indicate that man had a relationship with God wherein man could repent, please God, and be forgiven (before Christianity).
J
Jesus_123
Guest
+Below is King David’s profoundly prayerful psalm of repentance of sin . . . our Holy Mother Catholic Church has entitled it “The Miserere” . . .
:bible1:
**PSALM 50 **
Miserere.
The repentance and confession
of David after his sin.
**+ The fourth penitential psalm. + **
1 Unto the end, a psalm of David,
2 When Nathan the prophet came to him
after he had sinned with Bethsabee.
3 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to thy great mercy.
And according to the multitude of thy tender mercies
blot out my iniquity.
4 Wash me yet more from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin.
5 For I know my iniquity,
and my sin is always before me.
+ 6 To thee only have I sinned,
and have done evil before thee: +
that **thou **mayst be justified in **thy **words
and mayst overcome when thou art judge.
7 For behold I was conceived in iniquities;
and in sins did my mother conceive me.
8 For behold thou hast loved truth:
the uncertain and hidden things of thy wisdom
thou hast made manifest to me.
9 Thou shalt sprinkle me with hyssop,
and I shall be cleansed:
thou shalt wash me,
and I shall be made whiter than snow.
10 To my hearing **thou **shalt give joy and gladness:
and the bones that have been humbled shall rejoice.
11 Turn away **thy **face from my sins,
and blot out all my iniquities.
+ 12 Create a clean heart in me, O God:
and renew a right spirit within my bowels. +
13 Cast me not away from thy face;
and take not thy **holy spirit **from me.
+ 14 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation,
and strengthen me with a perfect spirit. +
15 I will teach the unjust** thy **ways:
and the wicked shall be converted to thee.
16 Deliver me from blood, O God,
+ thou God of my salvation: +
and my tongue shall extol **thy **justice.
17 O Lord, thou wilt open my lips:
and my mouth shall declare thy praise.
18 For if thou hadst desired sacrifice,
I would indeed have given it:
with burnt offerings thou wilt not be delighted.
+ 19 A sacrifice to God
is an afflicted spirit: a contrite
and humbled
heart, O God, **
thou** wilt not despise. +
20 Deal favourably, O Lord, in **thy **good will with Sion;
that the walls of Jerusalem may be built up.
21 Then shalt thou accept the sacrifice of justice,
oblations and whole burnt offerings:
then shall they lay calves upon thy altar.
. . .
. . .
:bible1:
**PSALM 50 **
Miserere.
The repentance and confession
of David after his sin.
**+ The fourth penitential psalm. + **
1 Unto the end, a psalm of David,
2 When Nathan the prophet came to him
after he had sinned with Bethsabee.
3 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to thy great mercy.
And according to the multitude of thy tender mercies
blot out my iniquity.
4 Wash me yet more from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin.
5 For I know my iniquity,
and my sin is always before me.
+ 6 To thee only have I sinned,
and have done evil before thee: +
that **thou **mayst be justified in **thy **words
and mayst overcome when thou art judge.
7 For behold I was conceived in iniquities;
and in sins did my mother conceive me.
8 For behold thou hast loved truth:
the uncertain and hidden things of thy wisdom
thou hast made manifest to me.
9 Thou shalt sprinkle me with hyssop,
and I shall be cleansed:
thou shalt wash me,
and I shall be made whiter than snow.
10 To my hearing **thou **shalt give joy and gladness:
and the bones that have been humbled shall rejoice.
11 Turn away **thy **face from my sins,
and blot out all my iniquities.
+ 12 Create a clean heart in me, O God:
and renew a right spirit within my bowels. +
13 Cast me not away from thy face;
and take not thy **holy spirit **from me.
+ 14 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation,
and strengthen me with a perfect spirit. +
15 I will teach the unjust** thy **ways:
and the wicked shall be converted to thee.
16 Deliver me from blood, O God,
+ thou God of my salvation: +
and my tongue shall extol **thy **justice.
17 O Lord, thou wilt open my lips:
and my mouth shall declare thy praise.
18 For if thou hadst desired sacrifice,
I would indeed have given it:
with burnt offerings thou wilt not be delighted.
+ 19 A sacrifice to God
is an afflicted spirit: a contrite
and humbled
heart, O God, **thou** wilt not despise. +
20 Deal favourably, O Lord, in **thy **good will with Sion;
that the walls of Jerusalem may be built up.
21 Then shalt thou accept the sacrifice of justice,
oblations and whole burnt offerings:
then shall they lay calves upon thy altar.
. . .
. . .. . . all for Jesus+
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