Genesis 5:22-24 - Rapture?

[curtishouse29]

Here in Genesis 5:22-24 where The Word says, “And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” It sounds like Enoch got raptured in this verse. I hate using that word because it is an unbiblical doctrine in my opinion but what else could have these verses been speaking about?

 

[peary]

Here in Genesis 5:22-24 where The Word says, “And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” It sounds like Enoch got raptured in this verse. I hate using that word because it is an unbiblical doctrine in my opinion but what else could have these verses been speaking about?

I personally don’t interpret it as Enoch being taken by God literally, in the sense that he did not die. It says that “he was not” and, to me, that means that he was a holy man who died in the presence of God, and that “God took him” - away from life. I have never interpreted this passage in the way many have by saying that Enoch never died. Simply, it sounds to me that he lived such a long time and was so old that the writer was quoting an oral tradition in which it seems Enoch was simply forgotten - when he died, where he died, etc. Thus, God "took him."

 

[thistle]

Here in Genesis 5:22-24 where The Word says, “And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” It sounds like Enoch got raptured in this verse. I hate using that word because it is an unbiblical doctrine in my opinion but what else could have these verses been speaking about?

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 24. Walked with God. Septuagint, “was pleasing to God,” by continual recollection and watchfulness over himself. Thus he became perfect. — Was seen no more; or, as St. Paul reads, after the Septuagint, he was not found. (Hebrews xi. 5.) — God took him alive to some place unknown, which is commonly supposed to be Paradise, conformably to Ecclesiasticus xliv. 16, though in Greek we do not read Paradise. Henoch pleased God, and was translated [into Paradise], that he may give repentance to the nations. To him, that of Wisdom iv. 10, may be applied: He…was beloved, and living among sinners, he was translated. He will come again, when the charity of many of his children, (for we all spring from him) shall have grown cold; and shall at last suffer death for opposing Antichrist. (Apocalypse xi.) (Haydock) — “Though it be not an article of faith, whether Henoch be now in that Paradise, from which Adam and Eve were driven, or in some other delightful place; yet the holy Scriptures affirm, that God translated him alive, that he might not experience death,” St. Chrysostom, hom. 21, with whom the other fathers agree, cited in the Douay Bible; so that it is a matter of surprise, how any Protestant can call it in question. He is the other witness, who will come with Elias, before the great day of the Lord, to perform the same office to the nations, as the latter will to the Jews. (Malachias iv.) God preserves these two alive, perhaps to give us a striking proof how he could have treated Adam and his posterity, if they had not sinned; and also to confirm our hopes of immortality, when we shall have paid the debt of nature. (Worthington)

 

[Lev23]

I personally don’t interpret it as Enoch being taken by God literally, in the sense that he did not die. It says that “he was not” and, to me, that means that he was a holy man who died in the presence of God, and that “God took him” - away from life. I have never interpreted this passage in the way many have by saying that Enoch never died. Simply, it sounds to me that he lived such a long time and was so old that the writer was quoting an oral tradition in which it seems Enoch was simply forgotten - when he died, where he died, etc. Thus, God "took him."

Umm, sorry. Hebrews 11:5 states he was “caught up”, or “raptured” to God.

**Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. **

 

[Lev23]

It sounds like Enoch got raptured in this verse. I hate using that word because it is an unbiblical doctrine in my opinion but what else could have these verses been speaking about?

Sounds like you got your own head spinning. If you conclude Enoch got raptured by reading from the bible(Gen 5 account/Hebrews11:5confirmation), why then do you consider it to be a unbiblical doctrine?

 

[peary]

Umm, sorry. Hebrews 11:5 states he was “caught up”, or “raptured” to God.

**Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. **

I suppose God could have taken him. But for what purpose?

 

[curtishouse29]

Sounds like you got your own head spinning. If you conclude Enoch got raptured by reading from the bible(Gen 5 account/Hebrews11:5confirmation), why then do you consider it to be a unbiblical doctrine?

When I said the rapture was unbiblical, I was talking about that pre-tribulation rapture garbage that was invented in the 1800s.

 

[curtishouse29]

I suppose God could have taken him. But for what purpose?

It could have been for any number of reasons but, just like the Kid Rock song says, Only God Knows Why…

 

[Robert_in_SD]

It sounds like Enoch got raptured in this verse. I hate using that word because it is an unbiblical doctrine in my opinion but what else could have these verses been speaking about?

How about using the word “assumption?” Enoch was assumed into heaven (or paradise) body and soul by God. That sounds more correct.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[curtishouse29]

How about using the word “assumption?” Enoch was assumed into heaven (or paradise) body and soul by God. That sounds more correct.

Peace,
-Robert

Yes I was thinking about that as well…I don’t know why I didn’t remember to include it in my post lol It could have been a foreshadowing of the Assumption of Mary. One thing I never got though…How could both body and soul be in Heaven? Isn’t Heaven completely spiritual? So how would the physical body get into a spiritual realm?

 

[davidv]

Yes I was thinking about that as well…I don’t know why I didn’t remember to include it in my post lol It could have been a foreshadowing of the Assumption of Mary. One thing I never got though…How could both body and soul be in Heaven? Isn’t Heaven completely spiritual? So how would the physical body get into a spiritual realm?

If Jesus ascended, with His body, how can heaven be "completely spiritual’?

 

[Lev23]

I suppose God could have taken him. But for what purpose?

I believe dispensationalism views Enoch as a type of those saints who are to be translated before the apocalyptic judgments. Noah, who was left on the earth, but preserved through the judgment of the Flood, is a type of the Jewish people, who will be kept through the apocalyptic judgments, and brought as an earthly people to the new heaven and new earth(by Jesus Christ).

When I said the rapture was unbiblical, I was talking about that pre-tribulation rapture garbage that was invented in the 1800s.

Sorry if you see this scriptural view as “garbage”.

 

[curtishouse29]

If Jesus ascended, with His body, how can heaven be "completely spiritual’?

I dont know…Thats why I said I had a problem understanding Heaven and physical bodies entering it…So, are you saying that Heaven is also physical? Just trying to wrap my mind around that one…We die and our souls go to Heaven (hopefully) except for those that have been assumed both body and soul like Jesus, Mary, Enoch, etc. That about sum it up?

 

[Lev23]

It could have been for any number of reasons but, just like the Kid Rock song says, Only God Knows Why…

Yeah, talk about one confused fella, Kid Rock calls himself the “Rock n’ Roll Jesus”, but has a song called “Only God knows why”.

 

[curtishouse29]

Sorry if you see this scriptural view as “garbage”.

There is not one mention of this from the Early Church Fathers or any other Christians for that matter until the 1800s. Doesn’t that strike you as a little odd? If you look at the verses that supposedly support the pre-tribulation rapture, those verses are completely twisted around and don’t point to this supposed pre-tribulation rapture whatsoever. Anybody know the official view of the Catholic Church regarding the “pre-tribulation rapture”?

 

[LetoAtriedesII]

Well the idea of the Assumption of Mary is that her body and soul were taken into heaven, also for Enoch and Elijah- but the reason why its important for the body and soul, is because thats how heaven will be composed of at the end of times. The resurrection of the dead will include a bodily resurrection in which we will get new flesh that it will become “incorruptible,” “glorious,” and “powerful.” (1 Corinthians 15:42-58) These three who have been assumptioned in some sense may have already experienced the resurrectoin of the dead. Especially in the case of Mary who is a type of the church who was immaculately conceived, as the church was at pentecost, and in this sanctified gave her the ability to be sinless, just as Christ did for the church Ephesians 5:25-27. She also made her body “a living sacrifice,” just as the church is called to do (Romans 12:1), and existing only to serve God’s will in making her self a handmaiden of the Lord just as the Church exists only to serve His very will and therefore being ever-virgin. Finally, since being a model for the Church it would make sense that Mary would be assumptioned at the end of her life to be a model for the Church, since the Church will raise from the dead and itself be assumptioned at the end of time. Enoch and Elijah indicate that such an assumption can happen even if Mary’s isn’t explicitly said. So at the end of time we will be united with new flesh, new earth, and a new heaven, as mentioned at the end of Revelation, so that no longer will flesh and spirit be at odds with each other but both in unison make themselves handmaidens for God’s will. So when we die now it will be spiritual, until the resurrection of the dead when it is body and spirit united in purpose.

 

[LetoAtriedesII]

regarding the rapture: the church does not believe in a pretribulation rapture- all the passages talking about the rapture are actually the ressurrection of the dead and if you look in scripture the resurrection of the dead happens at the second coming at the end of time, not prior to the tribulation- ex: 1 Corintihians 15:23-26, Revelation 20:12-14, and Matthew 24:29-31

 

[curtishouse29]

regarding the rapture: the church does not believe in a pretribulation rapture- all the passages talking about the rapture are actually the ressurrection of the dead and if you look in scripture the resurrection of the dead happens at the second coming at the end of time, not prior to the tribulation- ex: 1 Corintihians 15:23-26, Revelation 20:12-14, and Matthew 24:29-31

Exactly…Thanks for pointing that out…Congrats on your first couple of posts…Not sure why you haven’t posted more yet lol The funniest thing about the rapture to me though is if the pre-trib rapture was true, what we consider the second coming would actually be the third coming according to their theology…Where is that in the Bible? LOL

 

[peary]

How about using the word “assumption?” Enoch was assumed into heaven (or paradise) body and soul by God. That sounds more correct.

Peace,
-Robert

He couldn’t have. the gates of Heaven were not open yet until Christ’s death and resurrection.

 

[curtishouse29]

He couldn’t have. the gates of Heaven were not open yet until Christ’s death and resurrection.

Just because the gates weren’t open doesn’t mean that Enoch couldn’t have been assumed. He would have just went to Paradise directly (not to be confused with Heaven).