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Holland
Guest
Is there some special significance in telling us how old all these people were when they died, aside from the fact that they were really, really old? Were they really, actually, that old?
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Nita
Guest
Whether they were “really” that old depends on a couple of things:
- How did they define the length of a year back when this oral history was being passed on (before Moses recorded it in writing)?
- Could they have meant something else by “lived…, days of…died”? For example, could it have meant the length of time their religious teaching/ethics/etc. continued to prevail or be passed on within the descendants of that particular line before “dying” (that is, being forgotten, ignored, or replaced).
Some interesting things pop up if you lay out a time line and plug in all the dates.
- It shows that Adam was still alive at the time of Lamech’s (Noah’s father) birth. Adam did not die until Lamech was 56 years old.
This means all of Seth’s descendants listed in Genesis 5 - except for Noah - would have been able to talk with Adam. Interesting to contemplate how much of what took place in Eden, Adam was allowed to retain in his memory and pass on. (Keep in mind this is all speculation) - It shows also that all of them - except Noah and his family - had died when the flood occurred. The one possible exception being Methusaleh. Methusaleh died the same year as the flood began.
Nita
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Holland
Guest
Thanks! I always need someone to jumpstart my brain a little to get me to think a little more indepth about some of these things.
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lak611
Guest
Here’s what the Catholic Encyclopedia** has to say: "LONGEVITY OF THE PATRIARCHS
Various theories have been advanced for explaining the abnormally long lifetime of the patriarchs. They may be classified into three groups:
(1) The Literal and Historical Interpretation
The genealogical table is accepted as a record of the past and as possessing the ordinary certainty of history. The ten patriarchs are held actually to have lived the long life assigned to them. The object which God intended by this extraordinary longevity is said to have been the increase of men on earth and the preservation of ancient tradition. In answer to the objection that the system of the human body does not permit of so long a lifetime, it is argued that a special providence of God had favoured the ancients with a peculiar organization and constitution of body, and had provided for them a special kind of food and climate. Thus already Josephus: “Let no one make the shortness of our lives at present an argument that neither the Patriarchs attained so long a duration of life; for those ancients were beloved of God and made by God himself; and because their food was then fitter for the prolongation of life; and besides God afforded them a longer time of life on account of their virtue, and the good use they made of it in astronomical and geometrical discoveries, etc.”
Furthermore in corroboration of the Biblical account he names as witnesses the historians Manetho the Egyptian, Berosus the Chaldean, Mochus, Hesitaeus, Hieronymus the Egyptian, and others, who all bore testimony to the longevity of primeval man. Ant., I, III, 9.
(2) The Metaphorical Interpretation
The names of the ten patriarchs signify ten dynasties or tribes. Each dynasty might have comprised a succession of several rulers. The explanation is ingenious. It may be doubted, however, whether this was the meaning of the narrator. By naming the patriarchs he seems to have meant one individual. For he states the age at which the patriarch begot the son who was to succeed him. Others argue that the Hebrew word, Shanah, in the list of the ten patriarchs signifies the duration not of a year, but of a month. But in that case Enos begot his successor when he was eight years of age, and Malaleel and Henoch begot theirs when they were five.
Others again, but without sufficient ground, say that the year is to be taken as a year of three months from Adam unto Abraham, of eight months unto Joseph, and only after him are we to allow for it the natural duration.
(3) The Mythical Interpretation
We have already pointed out that according to the theory of the documentary composition of the Pentateuch, chapter v belongs to the original history named by the critics the “Priestly Code”. If the genealogical dates recorded in that narrative are examined, a gradual and systematic shortening of man’s lifetime is distinctly noticeable. From Adam to Noe the duration of man’s life ranges from 500 to 1,000 years. From Sem to Thare it ranges from 200 to 600 (xi, 10-32). From Abraham to Moses, from 100 to 200. Abraham lived 175 years; Isaac, 180; Jacob, 147 (Gen… xxxv, 28; xxv, 7; xlvii, 28). After that the average human life is 70 or 80 years. “And the days of our years in them are three score and ten years. But if in the strong they be fourscore years” (Psalm 89:10). Critics, moreover, hold as we have seen, that according to the original structure of the “Priestly Code” the genealogical table in chapter v immediately followed the account of the Creation in chapter i. If so, the narrative of this Code contained no mention of paradise, nor of man’s immortality, fall, and punishment. On the other hand it may have been the opinion of the author of this Code that the smooth and even course of man’s life, the result of his continued state of innocence, contributed to the possibility of his attaining a preternaturally old age. But when this primordial innocence was lost the duration of man’s life was shortened. Thus the longevity of the patriarchs would agree with the notion of the primeval oetas aurea, a fabulous period of innocence and happiness."newadvent.org/cathen/01551c.htm
Various theories have been advanced for explaining the abnormally long lifetime of the patriarchs. They may be classified into three groups:
(1) The Literal and Historical Interpretation
The genealogical table is accepted as a record of the past and as possessing the ordinary certainty of history. The ten patriarchs are held actually to have lived the long life assigned to them. The object which God intended by this extraordinary longevity is said to have been the increase of men on earth and the preservation of ancient tradition. In answer to the objection that the system of the human body does not permit of so long a lifetime, it is argued that a special providence of God had favoured the ancients with a peculiar organization and constitution of body, and had provided for them a special kind of food and climate. Thus already Josephus: “Let no one make the shortness of our lives at present an argument that neither the Patriarchs attained so long a duration of life; for those ancients were beloved of God and made by God himself; and because their food was then fitter for the prolongation of life; and besides God afforded them a longer time of life on account of their virtue, and the good use they made of it in astronomical and geometrical discoveries, etc.”
Furthermore in corroboration of the Biblical account he names as witnesses the historians Manetho the Egyptian, Berosus the Chaldean, Mochus, Hesitaeus, Hieronymus the Egyptian, and others, who all bore testimony to the longevity of primeval man. Ant., I, III, 9.
(2) The Metaphorical Interpretation
The names of the ten patriarchs signify ten dynasties or tribes. Each dynasty might have comprised a succession of several rulers. The explanation is ingenious. It may be doubted, however, whether this was the meaning of the narrator. By naming the patriarchs he seems to have meant one individual. For he states the age at which the patriarch begot the son who was to succeed him. Others argue that the Hebrew word, Shanah, in the list of the ten patriarchs signifies the duration not of a year, but of a month. But in that case Enos begot his successor when he was eight years of age, and Malaleel and Henoch begot theirs when they were five.
Others again, but without sufficient ground, say that the year is to be taken as a year of three months from Adam unto Abraham, of eight months unto Joseph, and only after him are we to allow for it the natural duration.
(3) The Mythical Interpretation
We have already pointed out that according to the theory of the documentary composition of the Pentateuch, chapter v belongs to the original history named by the critics the “Priestly Code”. If the genealogical dates recorded in that narrative are examined, a gradual and systematic shortening of man’s lifetime is distinctly noticeable. From Adam to Noe the duration of man’s life ranges from 500 to 1,000 years. From Sem to Thare it ranges from 200 to 600 (xi, 10-32). From Abraham to Moses, from 100 to 200. Abraham lived 175 years; Isaac, 180; Jacob, 147 (Gen… xxxv, 28; xxv, 7; xlvii, 28). After that the average human life is 70 or 80 years. “And the days of our years in them are three score and ten years. But if in the strong they be fourscore years” (Psalm 89:10). Critics, moreover, hold as we have seen, that according to the original structure of the “Priestly Code” the genealogical table in chapter v immediately followed the account of the Creation in chapter i. If so, the narrative of this Code contained no mention of paradise, nor of man’s immortality, fall, and punishment. On the other hand it may have been the opinion of the author of this Code that the smooth and even course of man’s life, the result of his continued state of innocence, contributed to the possibility of his attaining a preternaturally old age. But when this primordial innocence was lost the duration of man’s life was shortened. Thus the longevity of the patriarchs would agree with the notion of the primeval oetas aurea, a fabulous period of innocence and happiness."newadvent.org/cathen/01551c.htm
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LilyM
Guest
I tend to favour this explanation. Remember that Adam and Eve were straight from the hand of God, the master creator and engineer, himself. More than that, they were intended to live forever, so they would have been given bodies that were at least theoretically capable of doing so. And their children similarly would have been nigh on perfect genetically.
Then again, no problems with overpopulation resulting in famine, processed food, pollution etc the way we have.
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lak611
Guest
Also, sin is the cause of death, and lifespans could decrease due to more and more sin in each generation until God decided to stop decreasing lifespans because of His mercy.
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Holland
Guest
Its pretty mind boggling to think they lived that long. I can’t rember what I did last week. Can you imagine trying to remember and pass on what you did, lets say 200 years previous. Its pretty hard to wrap your arms around the concept, that’s for sure.
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