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YosefYosep
Guest
In Genesis 3:16 God punishes Eve with labor pains and also mentions how her husband will “rule over” her. I was wondering what this meant. How does Adam rule over Eve? How is this a punishment?
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Gorgias
Guest
It’s not so much that God gives Eve labor pains – He promises to ‘greatly multiply’ them.
And, if I recall correctly, John Paul II describes the issue of the ‘master’ comment in his “Theology of the Body” – it speaks to the way in which sin distorts relationships. Having turned from God and having chosen sin instead, Adam and Eve damaged their own relationship as well. So, from this point forward, their relationship stops being one in complete equality and harmony; now, their relationship will be burdened with a distinct dynamic of inequality and strife. It’s important to notice that this isn’t a consequence that only affects Eve – it hurts Adam, too.
It’s a ‘punishment’ in the sense that we reap the consequences of our sins.
And, if I recall correctly, John Paul II describes the issue of the ‘master’ comment in his “Theology of the Body” – it speaks to the way in which sin distorts relationships. Having turned from God and having chosen sin instead, Adam and Eve damaged their own relationship as well. So, from this point forward, their relationship stops being one in complete equality and harmony; now, their relationship will be burdened with a distinct dynamic of inequality and strife. It’s important to notice that this isn’t a consequence that only affects Eve – it hurts Adam, too.
It’s a ‘punishment’ in the sense that we reap the consequences of our sins.
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DoGodsBidding
Guest
The New Jerome Biblical Commentary has the following note about Genesis 3:16:
" Childbearing, a constituent part of woman’s nature, will be attended with great pain symbolizing the loss of original ease with oneself and one’s environment. Woman’s original equality with her “correspondent,” the man, is part of the loss, suggesting that the subordinate place of woman in Israelite society was not intended by God, but is rather a result of human sin (Trible, *Rhetoric of Sexuality *126-28)."
" Childbearing, a constituent part of woman’s nature, will be attended with great pain symbolizing the loss of original ease with oneself and one’s environment. Woman’s original equality with her “correspondent,” the man, is part of the loss, suggesting that the subordinate place of woman in Israelite society was not intended by God, but is rather a result of human sin (Trible, *Rhetoric of Sexuality *126-28)."
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DesertSister62
Guest
Thank you, “DoGodsBidding.” This explains so many things; and in such a non-combative manner, too!
DesertSister62
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Neofight
Guest
St Augustin tells us the pain is not the punishment, but just a symptom of the punishment.
The punishment was loss of immortality, and so like animals who were created mortal, human childbirth became painful.
The punishment was loss of immortality, and so like animals who were created mortal, human childbirth became painful.
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thistle
Guest
D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:
Ver. 16. And thy conceptions. Septuagint, “thy groaning.” The multifarious sorrows of childbearing, must remind all mothers (the blessed Virgin Mary alone excepted) of what they have incurred by original sin. If that had not taken place, they would have conceived without concupiscence, and brought forth without sorrow. (St. Augustine, City of God xiv. 26.)— Conceptions are multiplied on account of the many untimely deaths, in our fallen state. Power, which will sometimes be exercised with rigor. (Haydock) — Moses here shews the original and natural subjection of wives to their husbands, in opposition to the Egyptians, who, to honour Isis, gave women the superiority by the marriage contract. (Diodorus i. 2.) (Calmet)
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Crown_of_Stars
Guest
And I’ve heard, unless it is wrong, although I don’t remember having ever read a reference to it in Genesis, that the bleeding of women is “the curse”, due to the Fall, in Eve’s behalf. Personally, I don’t really believe this. It’s obviously the way us ladies need to function…the womb thickens with a lining which will shelter a baby, and if there is no baby, it needs to be shed. Curse or not, I hate it all the same. As far as I’m concerned, it is our own personal curse.
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Elizium23
Guest
I’m sorry you feel that way. I may be a man, but I consider it a beautiful thing. It means the woman’s body is functioning as intended. It means she is fertile.And I’ve heard, unless it is wrong, although I don’t remember having ever read a reference to it in Genesis, that the bleeding of women is “the curse”, due to the Fall, in Eve’s behalf. Personally, I don’t really believe this. It’s obviously the way us ladies need to function…the womb thickens with a lining which will shelter a baby, and if there is no baby, it needs to be shed. Curse or not, I hate it all the same. As far as I’m concerned, it is our own personal curse.
Surely it is a curse of the Culture of Death where we have Catholic women speaking negatively about this normal function of fertility. The world tells us that fertility and pregnancy are diseases to be treated with strong drugs, latex and surgery. The world tells us that we are not perfect unless we have “health care” that fixes us up. The world tells aging women that they need plastic surgery to stay beautiful. The world tells the elderly and the terminally ill that it’s better to “die with dignity” than live the lives God gave us. So much secular paganism it seeps into our every waking thought and our dreams, too.
Bodies are inherently icky things. We all have secretions and fluids and hair and stuff we don’t like about them. I don’t know if any of that ickiness can be pinned on the Fall, but I’d like to think that God created us beautiful, in His image, and any perception of ickiness is simply the fact of being human in the world.
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