Genesis v Evolution

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The answer is I cannot accept any form of neo-Darwinian evolution that does not recognize God as having a causal role.

Science is always under review by the Church.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
And once again, the philosophy of naturalistic evolution that defines man as a bag of chemicals or just another animal is being widely spread, in complete opposition to Church teaching.
Ed
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I disagree Ed. In one sense, so far as our natural body is concerned, we are just a bag of chemicals; but in another sense, so far as our life having meaning, we are children of God. Naturalistic philosophy, so far as what people believe the world to ultimatly ammount to, is not science and niether is inteligent design; this is because science is a study of the natural world. Philosophy has its place and science has its place.

when looking at the issue from a strickly scientific point of veiw, Just because our natural bodies ultimately evolved from some kind of soup, says nothing about what life actually is, or whether or not it has any purpose. It is the meaning that we as humans give to it, which speaks of a purposefull or a purposeless world. These ideas about the ‘meaning of life’, whether it atheistic or theistic, ultimately transends the scientific realm. These ideas are “subjective unscientific beliefs” which may or may not have a true dipiction about the real world; yet do not lack any improtance just because they are unscientific.

Whether or not it seems to you to contradict some kind belief about life, If science proposes to reveal the ultimate meaning of life, then i agree that it is not real science. But if science is a seach for “natural truths” about the “natural world”, then it is scientific and well within its rights; and therefore it is not suprising that we never hear them speak of the supernatural.

There are over methods of searching for the ultimate meaning of life. Emprical Science is not one of them.
 
I understand that. Speaking as a Catholic, there are two parts to the answer of human origins: one is science and the second is divine revelation.

Speaking as a Catholic, I recognize the Teaching Authority of the Church and trust it, because it was handed down from God Himself.

God bless,
Ed
 
Actually I am done with this debate for a while. After watching the Nova thing and hitting some of my favorite catholic blogs who also watched it, I cannot stomach this nonsense any longer. Nobody with a brain can be a creationist. It simply is overwhelming that evolution is a correct model. It has been varified by DNA research which was really the true test of Darwin’s theory. Since I conclude that most people are not stupid, I can be left with but one conclusion. Those who continue to hawk creationism whatever its guise as ID, are intentionally and sinfully attempting to perpetrate a fraud upon their listeners.

It was shown without any question through their own documents that the Discovery Creationist people deliberatlely attempted to portray their trash as “scientific theory” when in fact they had simply deleted creationism from their documents and supplanted it with Intelligent design. One one occassion, they didn’t delete the entire word and the actual document was cdesign proponentist. It’s jokingly been called the “missing link of ID”
Michael Behe was shown to be a total fool. He actually admitted that given his definition of “theory” astrology would be so considered. The people he cited for supporting his “hypothesis” came on camera and said they implied no such ridiculous interpretation. (Behe apparently when he stays away from evolution is a reputable scientist) The “ireducable complexity” argument was completely debunked.

The so-called Christians in this sordid tale made death threats to both the science teachers at the school and the judge. The school board idiot who won election for this purpose and another member who was working with him, were both accused by the judge of giving false testimony and attempting to portray other than truth in their actions and testimony.

There is no question of the efficacy of evolution as the working model in dozens of scientific disciplines. The attempt by creationists to infiltrate local school boards and town councils with the express purpose of imposing their fundamentalist agenda is well known. This, their second tactic is apparently not going to work either.

I’v witnessed enough here to realize that some folks are going to pursue this knowing they are wrong, because it pleases them to create a world that they like better and to try and force me to live in it with them. You cannot claim you understand science and in the same breath claim that science doesn’t 'make room for God" or that evolution “hasn’t been proven.” Any high school student knows better than that.

I truely don’t know whether it stems from abject fear that if the Bible isn’t totally reliable in every way shape and form that life is too hard, or if its just prideful arrogance that I know better than you how we should believe. I am taking a break from this fight.
 
wildleafblower said:
Well SpiritMeadow, I figured you were an Intelligent Design advocate and a panentheist and a Teilhard de Chardin fan. Of course you aren’t really a Roman Catholic! 😛
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Wildleafblower, when I hear you accusing someone of not being a Roman Catholic just because they disagree with your wacky ideas, I know the screws are getting loose again. Time to get out the old Phillips and tighten things up!

SpiritMeadow strikes me as a thoughtful and educated Catholic who actually enjoys reflecting on and writing about theological issues. Her positions strike me as very balanced. You are way out of line claiming that those of us who have a different on doctrine and morals than you do are not Catholic. You are in no position to judge our prayer or spiritual or moral or sacramental lives.

Petrus
 
SpiritMeadow said:
After watching the Nova thing and hitting some of my favorite catholic blogs who also watched it, I cannot stomach this nonsense any longer. Nobody with a brain can be a creationist…Since I conclude that most people are not stupid, I can be left with but one conclusion. Those who continue to hawk creationism whatever its guise as ID, are intentionally and sinfully attempting to perpetrate a fraud upon their listeners.
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SpiritMeadow, great post! Nick Matzke (shown in the film) was with us last night for our pizza party for the premier of the NOVA film. He filled us in on the background of the characters, as he was there for six weeks. The best line was Kevin Padian’s (UCMP), “Intelligent Design makes you stupid!” We have decided to add a t-shirt with that line to our merchandise collection.

Petrus
 
wildleafblower said:
There are tons of Catholic Theologians today that play around with ideas regarding existing theology. But it is the College of Cardinals that have final word prior to the Pope setting theology in stone which does change over the years for the Church’s flock.🙂 As we can see with the New American Bible and Catechism of the Catholic Church that has been handed down to the Synod of Bishops which inturn disperse it to the priests of each parish whom instuct us in the ways of our Faith.
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Since when is theology “set in stone”? Theology is a dynamic conversation that has progressed from the beginning of the Church and the arguments at the Council of Jerusalem over whether to open the church to gentiles. Fortunately the “conservatives” lost that battle. The popes often consult with panels of theological experts.

Wildleafblower, your image of a theologian is of a trick pony that only does what it has been taught to do, or a seal that jumps for fish. In reality, we are not that at all. We are flesh and blood human beings, Christians who try to live our lives with integrity like any other Christian, whose special expertise is to teach university students to be prayerful, critical thinkers about their faith, a faith that has been handed down for generations and needs to be rearticulated for each generation.

Prayerfully yours,
Petrus
 
“You are way out of line claiming that those of us who have a different on doctrine and morals than you do are not Catholic. You are in no position to judge our prayer or spiritual or moral or sacramental lives. Petrus”

That is a bogus claim if I ever heard one! Your comprehension level is minimal. I never made that claim. When did you decide to become the spokesman for others? FYI, people can answer for him/her self.

You say as a Roman Catholic Theologian that you teach people about the Catholic Church thus speak on behalf of Roman Catholics. I have a right to know if you are misrepresenting Roman Catholics like myself, Tim, PhilVaz and others who have been posting to Catholic.com for years. You have avoided answering questions Tim has asked and I. Simple question Petrus(drpmjhess), do you adhere and adbide by all that is found within THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH which was approved by THE SUPREME PONTIFF BENEDICT XVI? 🙂
drpmjhess said:
Since when is theology “set in stone”? Theology is a dynamic conversation that has progressed from the beginning of the Church and the arguments at the Council of Jerusalem over whether to open the church to gentiles. Fortunately the “conservatives” lost that battle. The popes often consult with panels of theological experts.
Petrus
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Hello! Your whole statement 1247 is absurb and is based on the above statement of yours. Once again your comprehension level is low. I did write in msg. 1234, "But it is the College of Cardinals that have final word prior to the Pope setting theology in stone which does change over the years for the Church’s flock. As we can see with the New American Bible and Catechism of the Catholic Church that has been handed down to the Synod of Bishops which inturn disperse it to the priests of each parish whom instuct us in the ways of our Faith. You may wish to read this document which might be helpful:

MOTU PROPRIO OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF BENEDICT XVI
FOR THE APPROVAL AND PUBLICATION
OF THE COMPENDIUM OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
vatican.va/holy_father/be…chismo_en.html

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/b...proprio_20050628_compendio-catechismo_en.html"
 
wildleafblower said:
That is a bogus claim if I ever heard one! Your comprehension level is minimal. I never made that claim. When did you decide to become the spokesman for others? FYI, people can answer for him/her self.
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When did I ever claim to be your spokesman?
 
Petrus, anyone with a lick of intelligence can figure that one out if they can read!😃 My personal opinion is you’ve been caught one too many times trying to skate around answering legitimate questions. And you do seem to twist what people are saying by quote-mining or cherry-picking what others write at times.

I think I will make one last post about the Dover Trail regarding Haught then gladly move on since you have in the past treated me with disrespect.
 
I think I’m going to take my leave of this thread.

Thanks for sharing everyone.
 
The truth is that Genesis tells us of more than one creation. You must read the scriptures carefully as every word has power. But you cannot do this without having the original Hebrew or Greek because most translations do not give you the actual word being uttered. For the reconciliation of Genesis and evolution go here:

lordswitnesses.us/Apostles_first_lesson%20Hidden%20Mana.htm

Blessings,
Bill
 
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