Genesis ???

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zackonattack said:
The point is that God created the universe and everything in it, visible and invisible as the Creed says.
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Exactly, and I agree completely with that statement. That God created the universe and everything in it is precisely, I think, one of the theological truths taught by the book of Genesis.
 
patg said:
Not in error - he was a part of the development in Catholic scriptural study BUT he was not the final answer. Like most church teachings, the understanding of scripture is a developing process which has evolved and been advanced in stages by the documents you mention and I mentioned. Mine merely represent a more fully developed teaching than Pope Leo.

Yes they do - they much more fully endorse the historical-critical method and the study of literary forms. It is only by understanding the literary form that you can understand Genesis.

No, but that has nothing to do with historicity.

God wasn’t revealing history, math, or science.

No - Dei Verbum requires that we use our reason. You can’t understand any of the bible without reason.

You really need to read what the church actually teaches. Please find a copy of:

“Biblical Fundamentalism - What Every Catholic Should Know” by Ronald Witherup (*imprimatur *and nihil obstat).
and

“And God Said What?” by Margaret Ralph (Paulist Press).

I think you are that you need more than this type of discussion can provide.
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That was a very, very condescending (sp) remark. I’m sure you didn’t mean it the way it came across to me, but you are entitled. I’m actually very well read in Catholic Theology. I just happen to be one that takes a much more fundamental (that’s fundamentally correct) approach. Like I keep repeating, believe what you want. Believe the bible is full of myths and errors. That’s fine. but the church doesn’t believe that or the CCC.

So much for this subject. I have to sign off.
Peace be with you
 
zackonattack said:
Of course they used the word “day” in different ways, like you stated. But according to all the biblical scholars I have read, when the word day is preceeded by a number, the “day” always refers to a literal day. The day of Genesis was used as a pattern for the Jews. You work 6 days and then a “day” of rest. The Jews did not interpret that to mean I work 6 days of a million years, then I rest for a million years on the 7th day.

Right also, that a “day is AS a thousand years”. As a thousand mind you, not IS a thousand.
Jesus is called the WORD. You can add reason if you want, but I don’t add to the scripture. HE is also called TRUTH. To me, reason is inferior to REVELATION. PERIOD!!
It’s man worship of the god reason that has caused so much loss of faith in people. The “higher” criticism that started in full force in German rationalism has been a great tool of Satan. Attack, attack, the Word, make people believe the Word is full of errors, like alot of theologians (which I wouldn’t give a plug nickel for), and satan wins. Research the church documents on the Sacred Scriptures and you find a consistency throughout the ages. It’s only in “modern” times that man has found belief in the bible to be childlish. I’ll stick with the Apostle Paul (probably the most brilliant theologian that has ever lived) when he says in 1 Cor. 18-31).

This has been a long day. This is the third day of work. (see, it’s not hard to understand. The morning and the evening of the third. I grant day is used in several ways, but I do not grant that “day” as used in Genesis of the creation period, is difficult to discern. It is plain to anyone that doesn’t bring a preconceived theology and read it into the verse.

Hey, we do agree about the so-called “scholars” that write the footnotes in the modern day bibles. Actually, I think they are totally lost in unbelief and so impressed with their criticism they have no room for faith. The one bible I find that is an exception to that is the Douay-Rheims bible with a commentary by Rev. Fr. George Leo Haydock, available from the EWTN bookstore. Now, THAT is a bible!!! I love it.
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It isn’t really adding to the scripture to say that Jesus Christ,being the Word of God, is also Reason. The Greek word Logos means Reason as well as Word. In the case of Jesus Christ,it is God’s creative reason. The Pope has written extensively on Jesus Christ
being the Logos that the philosophers had speculated about and its implications for the faith.
 
zackonattack said:
It’s man worship of the god reason that has caused so much loss of faith in people. The “higher” criticism that started in full force in German rationalism has been a great tool of Satan.
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Yes, I think that this is at least partially true. The thinkers of the “Enlightenment” (which was far from enlightened, judging by the body count), pitted “Reason” against the Church, and eliminated from consideration anything but pure materialism.

But the Church is not, and has never been, opposed to reason in itself. Reason is a gift from God, and Catholic thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to Sheed and Kreeft attest to this. It was the Church that established the universities, the monks who preserved and cultivated learning, in a variety of fields throughout several thousand years.
 
I would like to direct your attention to Genesis 1:26 in which God crowns upon man THE BLESSING. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
After the fall of Adam, God gave the blessing to Abraham, Genesis 12:3. (And people often wonder why the Jews are so blessed 🙂

Then in Galatians 3:13-14 we read that we can receive that same blessing by faith through Christ Jesus! Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
Jesus. Christ. Have mercy on us! To all the literalists: God can do ANYTHING HE WANTS!!! If He chooses to convey His truth in language that His creation can understand, then who are you to argue? Whether the language of Genesis is literal or not, ther truths the language conveys are still truth.

God created the universe and everything in it: truth

God created Man: truth

Man sinned: truth

Whether God created everything in six days or six billion years is irrelevant. The FACT that Genesis is trying to get across is that God created everything.
What if the Bible said, “God spoke and matter was created and rushed out into the universe and gravitated together over millions of years, forming stars and planets and solar systems, after which god created living matter and sowed the new- born planets with it, allowing the matter to react chemically and grow into simple organisms, then, after millions of more years simple plants and animals evolved. When the earth had evolved fully, God then fashioned a man… etc”?

Who would have understood any of that ****? How would ancient Hebrews benefit from knowing the EXACT method that God used to create? All they, and WE, need to know is the FACT that God created everything. When you insist that you know that it was exactly as the book of Genesis tells it, you are implying that you know God’s mind and ways, which is ANTI biblical. Just be content to worship God, for crying out loud. You know, it’s been said (I don’t have the reference, sorry) that the majority of scientists who believe in evolution also believe in God. So that just blows your theory of the evil godless evilutionists trying to poison us against God right out of the water. Do you really think God likes us nitpicking instead of just worshiping Him and loving one another as he commanded? If so, then I think you need to read the rest of the Bible, Jack!
 
Jesus. Christ. Have mercy on us! To all the literalists: God can do ANYTHING HE WANTS!!! If He chooses to convey His truth in language that His creation can understand, then who are you to argue? Whether the language of Genesis is literal or not, ther truths the language conveys are still truth.

God created the universe and everything in it: truth

God created Man: truth

Man sinned: truth

Whether God created everything in six days or six billion years is irrelevant. The FACT that Genesis is trying to get across is that God created everything.
What if the Bible said, “God spoke and matter was created and rushed out into the universe and gravitated together over millions of years, forming stars and planets and solar systems, after which god created living matter and sowed the new- born planets with it, allowing the matter to react chemically and grow into simple organisms, then, after millions of more years simple plants and animals evolved. When the earth had evolved fully, God then fashioned a man… etc”?

Who would have understood any of that ****? How would ancient Hebrews benefit from knowing the EXACT method that God used to create? All they, and WE, need to know is the FACT that God created everything. When you insist that you know that it was exactly as the book of Genesis tells it, you are implying that you know God’s mind and ways, which is ANTI biblical. Just be content to worship God, for crying out loud. You know, it’s been said (I don’t have the reference, sorry) that the majority of scientists who believe in evolution also believe in God. So that just blows your theory of the evil godless evilutionists trying to poison us against God right out of the water. Do you really think God likes us nitpicking instead of just worshiping Him and loving one another as he commanded? If so, then I think you need to read the rest of the Bible, Jack!
 
partridge said:
i am concerned about those of you who claim that the Book of Genesis is not ALL truth. The Bible is God’s INSPIRED word to us, complete and infallible.

ALL Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

So I ask what part of Genesis do you think is not quite up to standards with 2 Timothy ???

Have a Good Day !
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Leviticus 11,6: The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you.

Wow. That’s odd, because rabbits do not chew the cud; they only look like they are always chewing. Does that mean Leviticus should be stricken from the Protestant canon?
:eek:
 
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