Genetic evidence contradicts Mormon Scripture

[Mike_D30]

donbjc:

You are right of course, I watch too many history channel stuff, and just pulled something out of the hat when I was challenged to do so. I was not writing to be anti-Catholic, but to defend against what I perceived as an unfair attack on the Mormons, one of whom I love very much(my wife). I only know in my heart that the Mormon people are among the most Christian. I do not know their history, any more than I know the history of the Catholic Church.
Sorry, but this just struck me as an unfair and un-Christian attack on a group of very devoted Christians. Again why would anyone go to such great lengths to prove them wrong. I for one do not care if they are wrong or not, and would not go to such lengths as researching DNA to prove such a thing. What good does it do? We already know they are wrong, why stir up hatred and discontent by arguing the point in so many different ways.
Peace be with you and Have a good Saturday,
Don

Oh please Don this is a debate board, we debated stuff found within LDS scriptures, you just slung mud…

If we brought up the Mountain Meadows Massacre asand attempt to discredit the LDS Chruch. THAT would be an attack. Of which we didn’t resort to, adn would be a very irresponsible thing to do.

And news flash Don Polygamy is still very much doctrine for the LDS on an eternal scale. Men can be sealed to more than one women on Earth (if you first wife dies) women can’t. That means in the Celestial Kingdom, that man would have any wife he was sealed to with him. So Polygamy is very much a part of LDS doctrine and worthy of debate.

Again Don we debated what we found in LDS scriptures you just flat out attacked the Church to make no point at all…

 

[donbjc]

Mike_D30:

No Don what you posted was inflammatory BS to make a very poorly scored point. It would be the same as us trashing and trying to invalidate the Mormon Church based on the Mountain Meadows Massacre, which we didn’t do, because that has zip to do with the teachings of the Mormon Church but rather an embarrassing unfortunate incident. The preisthood ban was a TEACHING of the CHURCH! it was in their SCRIPTURES. Why is this so hard to get through your head Don? Polygamy and the Priesthood ban was a matter of DOGMA for the LDS Church. If you can point out where any poor actions of the Catholic Church were a matter of Catholic dogma, and in our scriptures instead of human failings, I will take back any criticism.

If you have issue with the Catholic Churches actions during the Holocaust why not cite examples? And THEN to make it work in this discussion quote Catholic SCRIPTURE that seems to back your points up like we did Don, instead of just trashing the Church for no reason.

You say you’re a Catholic Don, but I don’t believe you for a minute. You have anti-Catholic in disguise written all over you.

So, if what I said was anti-Catholic, I am sorry, as I said I watch too many history channel things. I apologize, but I did not realize what I said was anti anything. I did not say the Catholic church did anything wrong with regards to the Holocaust and in fact did not know any of the things you people brought up. I was only grabbing somthing out of the air in respnse to your challenge. You are dripping rabid spit, and not reading my words. You are reacting with venom to nothing. I said nothing against the Catholic church. It is my faith and I love the Church, and God, but I do not believe in tearing down another church in the name of Christianity. So lay off already. You are way off base and out of line here in acusing me of anything but defending against your unfair accusations about Mormons. Ahy do you want to spend your time proving someone else wrong? I would say you need to go to an anger management course and I will go brush up on my Catholic’s for Dummies course.
Don

 

[donbjc]

Mike_D30:

Oh please Don this is a debate board, we debated stuff found within LDS scriptures, you just slung mud…

If we brought up the Mountain Meadows Massacre asand attempt to discredit the LDS Chruch. THAT would be an attack. Of which we didn’t resort to, adn would be a very irresponsible thing to do.

And news flash Don Polygamy is still very much doctrine for the LDS on an eternal scale. Men can be sealed to more than one women on Earth (if you first wife dies) women can’t. That means in the Celestial Kingdom, that man would have any wife he was sealed to with him. So Polygamy is very much a part of LDS doctrine and worthy of debate.

Again Don we debated what we found in LDS scriptures you just flat out attacked the Church to make no point at all…

Good point, you are very right and I am not an apologist and have no business in this website, I will go read up and maybe check back in after my course on Catholicism for Dummies. Thanks for the tip and the patience with my ramblings.
Don

 

[Mike_D30]

donbjc:

You are way off base and out of line here in acusing me of anything but defending against your unfair accusations about Mormons. Ahy do you want to spend your time proving someone else wrong? I would say you need to go to an anger management course and I will go brush up on my Catholic’s for Dummies course.
Don

Don,

As other posters’ have also pointed out I am not off base in anything. What you did was slung Mud that had zip to do with the debate at the Catholic Church. It’s actually a grave sin for me NOT to defend the Church against such attacks, and yes it did make me mad. Statements like that is like saying well priests are molesters, like that is somehow taught in the Church and ANYTHING other than human failing. It serves zero purpose but to demean the Church,a nd that’s it.

Again Don, I challenge you to tie the mud you slung to anything within Catholic doctrine. Which is exactly what we’ve been doing here in regards to disproving LDS doctrine. If your wife is LDS and it upsets you that we are refuting their teachings on a pro-Catholic site, I suppose you get a ittle thicker skin Don. I’ve already stated multiple times that LDS are typically very spirtiutal salt of the Earth type of people.

Why do I spend so much time disproving Mormonism, I don’t. It’s not much time but debating doctrines is of interest. Slinging mud at Churches isn’t. If I wanted to do that to the LDS Church trust me there is PLENTY out there to do it with.

I brought up only things that were taught as LDS doctrine that is where you are missing the very clear point Don.

I’ll chalk it up to just speaking too quickly. I’m in no position to judge your motives and for that I apologize. I was angry…

In regards to the Holcaust read up on the things the Church did to help Jews. Saving 800,000 Jews is not a myth, it’s true. The Pope was in a state where thousands of young men from the country he resides in the middle of, are off to war allied with Hitler. Yet he still behind the scense did a ton to help the Jews. Hitler hated the Pope and the Catholic Church. It was a very tough spot for the Church and the Pope. While the Church maybe could’ve done more, that can be said for any country, any human, any leader during that time. To say the Church commited attrocities during the Holocaust makes it sound like priests were lighting the ovens and dropping the xyclon B.

 

[Chris-WA]

latimes.com/news/local/la-me-mormon16feb16,0,5561316.story

Now back to the topic of this thread…

Whether or not DNA evidence supports the authenticity of the Book of Mormon is a very important area of research and certainly worthy of exploration.

I read the above article and one point I found troubling regarding the LDS church was this quote from Gordon B. Hinkley in a 1997 address during a Mormon conference in Lima, Peru:“As I look into your faces, I think of Father Lehi [patriarch of the Lamanites], whose sons and daughters you are. I think he must be shedding tears today, tears of love and gratitude…. This is but the beginning of the work in Peru.”

How can Hinkley say this? He doesn’t really know that these people are decendants of the Lamanites. Even if the BoM was true, he still could not say such a thing and be reasonably assured that it was accurate.

So why would he say such a thing? And why do LDS missionaries say such things to Native Americans and to the peoples of Central and South America? They have no way of knowing whether or not these people have one ounce of Lamanite blood within them. Saying so is irresponsible and deceptive. It’s a way to make a group of people feel special and connected to the LDS church, and therefore a reason to join and/or stay members.

 

[amgid]

Brad Haas:

Don, what crimes? Was it a crime for Pope Pius XII to draft the enyclical With Burning Anxiety, issued by Pius XI, which condemned anti-Semitism and identified Catholics as “spiritual Semites”? Was it his hatred of Jews that led a Nazi newspaper to say “Pius XI was a half-Jew, for his mother was a Dutch Jewess, but Cardinal Pacelli [Pius XII] is a full Jew” and “his speech is one long attack on everything we stand for … Here he is clearly speaking on behalf of the Jews”? Was it a crime to save “the 20,000 Jewish refugees from internment camps in Northern Italy” or numerous other groups of refugees in similar situations? Was it his cooperation with the Nazis that led Hitler to order him to be kidnapped?

If he committed crimes against Jews, why did the World Jewish Congress send a gift of two million lire as thanks for all the Church had done for Jews? Israel’s government estimated the number of Jews that Pius XII saved at 800,000, more than all other relief organizations combined. They planned to plant a forest with 800,000 trees in his honor.

It’s a popular myth that Pius XII was “Hitler’s Pope,” but now you’ve heard the facts, so please don’t believe it.

The Catholic Church has already apologized to the Jews and others for wrongs she has committed against them and others in past. That was a stupid thing to do then wasn’t it, apologizing for something you hadn’t done wrong:

racematters.org/papalapology.htm

cnn.com/WORLD/9710/01/france.catholics/

archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/03/07/vatican.pardon.02/index.html

amgid

 

[amgid]

donbjc:

Good point, you are very right and I am not an apologist and have no business in this website, I will go read up and maybe check back in after my course on Catholicism for Dummies. Thanks for the tip and the patience with my ramblings.

Not a “good point” at all, and he is not right about anything! You have every “business in this website”. I have enjoyed reading your post, and have learned a lot from you.

Don’t let them drive you out of the board. If you do, then they have won, because that is their objective. They don’t want to see a Catholic to stick up for the Mormons. So you stay right here and say what you want to say, and don’t take any notice of what they say. If somebody is “dripping rabid venom,” as you quite rightly observed, I will tell you what is the best way to answer that. The best answer to it is to just ignore them. I have had a lot experience debating on these boards, and I can give you a few good tips. Take my word for it that they work: The most devastating response that you can give to somebody like that is to completely ignore them, never read their posts, and never reply to them. Just pretend they don’t exist. It drives them mad, and knocks them off the board! Try it, and see the result for yourself.

A lot of the people that act in this way are not real Catholics at all. They are apostates from the LDS Church who have joined the Catholic Church in order to use it as a platform from which to launch attacks against the LDS Church. They have an ulterior motive, and are a disgrace to the Catholic Church. So don’t be deceived by their false pretenses, and don’t let them intimidate you either. You stay ere and say what you want to say, and take no notice of them at all.

amgid

 

[Mike_D30]

amgid:

Not a “good point” at all, and he is not right about anything! You have every “business in this website”. I have enjoyed reading your post, and have learned a lot from you.

Don’t let them drive you out of the board. If you do, then they have won, because that is their objective. They don’t want to see a Catholic to stick up for the Mormons. So you stay right here and say what you want to say, and don’t take any notice of what they say. If somebody is “dripping rabid venom,” as you quite rightly observed, I will tell you what is the best way to answer that. The best answer to it is to just ignore them. I have had a lot experience debating on these boards, and I can give you a few good tips. Take my word for it that they work: The most devastating response that you can give to somebody like that is to completely ignore them, never read their posts, and never reply to them. Just pretend they don’t exist. It drives them mad, and knocks them off the board! Try it, and see the result for yourself.

A lot of the people that act in this way are not real Catholics at all. They are apostates from the LDS Church who have joined the Catholic Church in order to use it as a platform from which to launch attacks against the LDS Church. They have an ulterior motive, and are a disgrace to the Catholic Church. So don’t be deceived by their false pretenses, and don’t let them intimidate you either. You stay ere and say what you want to say, and take no notice of them at all.

amgid

Ohh you are so full of it, if someone posted nonsense about the Mountain Meadows Massacre simply as an attack I would defend Mormon’s. There’e a huge difference between debating touchy subjects that are in your SCRIPTURES Amgid, and simply tossing out blanket statements to demean the Chruch that have zip to do with anything.

I bet you love watching him attack the Catholic Church, all anti-Catholics do…So I’m not suprised one bit you enjoy Don claiming that the Catholic Church commited horrendous crimes against Jews…

I have never been LDS, I debate their warped view of scriptures, and heretical teachings. I don’t attack the people.

 

[Mike_D30]

amgid:

The Catholic Church has already apologized to the Jews and others for wrongs she has committed against them and others in past. That was a stupid thing to do then wasn’t it, apologizing for something you hadn’t done wrong:

racematters.org/papalapology.htm

cnn.com/WORLD/9710/01/france.catholics/

archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/03/07/vatican.pardon.02/index.html

amgid

French Catholics? I’m willing to wager French LDS, French Protestant and even French Jews were quiet on the Nazi’s treatment of the Jews. The French celebrated as Hitler waltzed in. That’s a French problem not a Catholic problem.

Like has already been stated, the Catholic Church SAVED 800,000 Jews from the holocaust. If they could’ve done more I’m sure they regret that. But every man, country and leader is just as guilty.

When is the LDS Church going to apologize for the sins of there past?

 

[majick275]

now who’s weeping and wailing gnashing the teeth? This isn’t a debate contest. God wins in the end. We just want as many people as possible on his team when it happens. DNA evidence is just one more weight on the scale that cumulatively shows the errors of mormonism. The hyped up vitriolic FARMS, FAIR sloppy scholarship with emotional appeal won’t save anyone. Only the grace of God can do that. Accept him, his church and especially his sacraments. Repent and be baptized.

 

[majick275]

amgid:

Not a “good point” at all, and he is not right about anything! You have every “business in this website”. I have enjoyed reading your post, and have learned a lot from you.

Don’t let them drive you out of the board. If you do, then they have won, because that is their objective. They don’t want to see a Catholic to stick up for the Mormons. So you stay right here and say what you want to say, and don’t take any notice of what they say. If somebody is “dripping rabid venom,” as you quite rightly observed, I will tell you what is the best way to answer that. The best answer to it is to just ignore them. I have had a lot experience debating on these boards, and I can give you a few good tips. Take my word for it that they work: The most devastating response that you can give to somebody like that is to completely ignore them, never read their posts, and never reply to them. Just pretend they don’t exist. It drives them mad, and knocks them off the board! Try it, and see the result for yourself.

A lot of the people that act in this way are not real Catholics at all. They are apostates from the LDS Church who have joined the Catholic Church in order to use it as a platform from which to launch attacks against the LDS Church. They have an ulterior motive, and are a disgrace to the Catholic Church. So don’t be deceived by their false pretenses, and don’t let them intimidate you either. You stay ere and say what you want to say, and take no notice of them at all.

amgid

So are all the LDS converts “apostates” from their churches who do missionary work as an attack against their former religons? are they a disgrace to the LDS? I don’t see anyone here gong to LDS boards and “attacking”. Nope. I see Catholics with a knowledge of a dangerous cult wanting to warn fellow Catholics who have questions about it. I also see some folks with a common background wanting to share experiences. And then there are those missionary trolls who come here to try and pedal lies to gain converts to the LDS church. I won’t stand by and watch. “when thou are converted go and strengthen thy brethren” is what Jesus told Peter. That’s what I’m trying to do.

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

This thread is FAR off topic and is now closed.

Please remember your charity folks.

Rachel