Genetically modified humans

[ThinkingSapien]

Here is a “fun” fact from it:

At best, IVF is like playing Russian Roulette with six people except only one chamber of the gun is empty. IVF treats the new human being as little more than a cluster of cells to be graded, selected, and discarded.

Ah, I have seen that presented before, though it was implicit. There’s a movie called GATACCA about a society in which genetic engineering was common and the protagonist is at a disadvantage because of genetic discrimination. There was a section removed from the movie when his parents go to the 6-day clinic to ensure their second son doesn’t have the 'defects" of their first. In the removed section the mother ask what will happen of the other zygotes. The Dr. tells her “What you have to remember is that these are not human beings, they are just the possibility of human beings…”

 

[The_Serpent]

I’m still interested about the implications of this, and whether they’d be human (yes?) - and whether they’d be human if combined with animal DNA to an extent of having animal characteristics (think of something from a sci fi novel…)

Assuming evolution is correct, then just having some different DNA wouldn’t necessarily mean your not human. Since DNA changes in the evolutionary process. If we scientifically combined human DNA with animal DNA to make a new species or animal. First we would be committing a grave sin. Second, there are people with damaged DNA that we consider human. Whether it’s a genetic disease, or missing limbs. So such a poor fellow might still be human, but suffering. There must be a point beyond which you would have a animal, and not a human any more. Maybe like a percentage, which only God knows. :ehh:

 

[Viki63]

While I have heard arguments from 35 years ago against IVF I have never heard any in modern times. Pardon my ignorance, but why is this considered immoral? I had thought (perhaps incorrectly) that a pro-life stance would imply a pro-fertilization treatment stance.

Not so. The church teaches that there must be no outside interference in the act of procreation, that is, it can’t be done in a lab using technology.
Also, as others have mentioned, in IVF several zygotes are created but only one or two are implanted, the others are discarded, frozen, or used in experiments. And if more are implanted and survive, often selective abortion is practiced. These are all horrific acts repugnant to God.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I think the first test tube baby in Poland is making her case known to the world now.
We can learn a lot from this, or turn and walk away from it.

 

[zro_x]

Assuming evolution is correct, then just having some different DNA wouldn’t necessarily mean your not human. Since DNA changes in the evolutionary process. If we scientifically combined human DNA with animal DNA to make a new species or animal. First we would be committing a grave sin. Second, there are people with damaged DNA that we consider human. Whether it’s a genetic disease, or missing limbs. So such a poor fellow might still be human, but suffering. There must be a point beyond which you would have a animal, and not a human any more. Maybe like a percentage, which only God knows. :ehh:

biologically speaking, two organisms are members of the same species if they can mate and produce fertile offspring. Probably not the standard God uses, but it is the only non-arbitrary standard that we could go by that I can think of.

 

[edwest2]

I think the first test tube baby in Poland is making her case known to the world now.
We can learn a lot from this, or turn and walk away from it.

We are told by the Church to turn away from sin and this is wrong. There is nothing to learn.

Peace,
Ed

 

[StrawberryJam]

We are told by the Church to turn away from sin and this is wrong. There is nothing to learn.

Peace,
Ed

What sin would you be walking away from in this case?

 

[donna369]

what i’ve been talking about is NOT ivf. this is a much bigger step away. modifying both sperm and egg, fertilization and then implantation in an artificial environment. they have the possibility to make sperm into egg and egg into sperm as well so that same sex couples can have a baby of their own without the need of a third party (other than the doctors of course).
the first step of this has so far been using an artificial womb for sharks. others are working on sperm and eggs. others on swapping dna and adding “new” dna traits or parts, particularly to y strand i think.
i don’t believe this is good. while many good things can come of it; bad always seems to be our tendency.

 

[Geo17]

I saw something on a cable channel in the year 2000 that may be related to this. I never had cable TV before 2000 and I don’t even know which channel it was. But the show was a documentary. This was real.

They were showing what they called Siamese Twins. They were 2 girls. They were fairly young, I think about the age of the 5th grade. But these 2 girls never fully separated. They were very pretty kids. The problem was they had only 2 legs and 2 arms. But they had 2 heads, and I think they said 2 hearts, with 2 brains. There were 2 personalities in them. One girl controlled 1 arm and 1 leg, and the other girl controlled the other arm and leg. These girls were shown even learning to have ridden a horse. So they were intelligent. Their father said the biggest problem with them is when 1 girl wants to do something the other doesn’t. They have to cooperate with each other just to walk. I didn’t see the show from the beginning, and I was shocked. How could such a thing happen. It really had me doubting God. The narrator said the Doctors weren’t expecting these girls to live very long, but they had already exceeded the age the docs expected them to live. I still wonder how such a thing could happen. Maybe now I know. I never heard anything else about this. All I remember thinking is that it was a good thing they were so cute, otherwise when people saw them they’d react in fear. But they were very cute and even attended some kind of school. As I said, I saw this in the beginning of the year 2000. I didn’t even have a PC yet.

Did anyone else see that show, or does anyone else know what happened to them?

I wouldn’t be surprised if well meaning doctors did something that caused these 2 girls to be in what was basically only 1 body.

Stuff like this is why we shouldn’t mess with the way God meant for us to be conceived and for us to grow.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I saw something on a cable channel in the year 2000 that may be related to this. I never had cable TV before 2000 and I don’t even know which channel it was. But the show was a documentary. This was real.

They were showing what they called Siamese Twins. They were 2 girls. They were fairly young, I think about the age of the 5th grade. But these 2 girls never fully separated. They were very pretty kids. The problem was they had only 2 legs and 2 arms. But they had 2 heads, and I think they said 2 hearts, with 2 brains. There were 2 personalities in them. One girl controlled 1 arm and 1 leg, and the other girl controlled the other arm and leg. These girls were shown even learning to have ridden a horse. So they were intelligent. Their father said the biggest problem with them is when 1 girl wants to do something the other doesn’t. They have to cooperate with each other just to walk. I didn’t see the show from the beginning, and I was shocked. How could such a thing happen. It really had me doubting God. The narrator said the Doctors weren’t expecting these girls to live very long, but they had already exceeded the age the docs expected them to live. I still wonder how such a thing could happen. Maybe now I know. I never heard anything else about this. All I remember thinking is that it was a good thing they were so cute, otherwise when people saw them they’d react in fear. But they were very cute and even attended some kind of school. As I said, I saw this in the beginning of the year 2000. I didn’t even have a PC yet.

Did anyone else see that show, or does anyone else know what happened to them?

I wouldn’t be surprised if well meaning doctors did something that caused these 2 girls to be in what was basically only 1 body.

Stuff like this is why we shouldn’t mess with the way God meant for us to be conceived and for us to grow.

This kind of a reply makes me want to bang my head on the wall out of frustration.

 

[Aussieman88]

Interestingly enough, the bible says men will groan and moan at their pregnant bellies before Jesus returns. I think this means they will carry children to term in some genetic modiication or transplantation. I haven’t heard of this yet.

 

[wmw]

what i’ve been talking about is NOT ivf. this is a much bigger step away. modifying both sperm and egg, fertilization and then implantation in an artificial environment. they have the possibility to make sperm into egg and egg into sperm as well so that same sex couples can have a baby of their own without the need of a third party (other than the doctors of course).
the first step of this has so far been using an artificial womb for sharks. others are working on sperm and eggs. others on swapping dna and adding “new” dna traits or parts, particularly to y strand i think.
i don’t believe this is good. while many good things can come of it; bad always seems to be our tendency.

IVF was the first step of having egg and sperm meet in a lab dish then they injected a sperm into an egg. Now it is pushing different parts of sperm cells and stem cells into an egg with needles in a lab dish Its all just a little step further and worse.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Interestingly enough, the bible says men will groan and moan at their pregnant bellies before Jesus returns. I think this means they will carry children to term in some genetic modiication or transplantation. I haven’t heard of this yet.

The bible says.
This is a Philoshohy forum.
You must be unaware of what burden lies upon you to make claims.

 

[Ion]

God made Eve from Adam’s rib; I think that humans made from humans will be given a soul;

 

[Ismael]

I came across this really scary article yesterday, about how they made the first genetically modified humans. dailymail.co.uk/news/article-43767/Worlds-GM-babies-born.html Of course this has serious ethical/philosophical problems as well as frightening possible effects on the future of our world. I was wondering - would these children still be human?

I heard a while ago about them trying to combine human and animal DNA (I know …it just gets worse) - would these still be human or not???

any thoughts?

In PRINCIPLE I think it could be ethical to have GM-babies. It’s not exactly against natural law, I’d say. (but I might be wrong)

IVF is against natural law… but you could have GM -babies without IVF, perhaps.

For example babies where genes that carry some disease (eg increased cancer risk) are removed or disabled.

Even babies with ‘enhanced abilities’

IN PRINCIPLE. How it is applied in practice it’s a big difference.

Babies and embrous are human persons, not science experiments, so the executionis tricky.

++++++++++++++

PS: this reminds me of ‘Brave New World’ of Aldous Huxley

 

[Ismael]

Interestingly enough, the bible says men will groan and moan at their pregnant bellies before Jesus returns. I think this means they will carry children to term in some genetic modiication or transplantation. I haven’t heard of this yet.

No one is gonna impregnate me!

Well I might allow an Alien to do it (you know like in the movie ‘alien’)