Genuflecting for Pope

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I always refer to Fr. Robert Barron’s analogy of the Pope as being like an umpire at a baseball game. He makes the calls that allow the flow of the game to continue, instead of breaking down into disputes. I would imagine he means something like all these denominations we have now that can’t agree on much of anything.
I’m sympathetic to your leaving the Church, babbc, but not empathetic.
God bless you. 🙂
 
babbc said:
which part do you find challenging…yes you suppose right, I’m not catholic but rather am Christian. Now is it my word sthat have given offence or your illusion being broken that it is right that the pope be called ‘Holy Father’?? I don’t know which part you are upset with??
Used to eb catholic but Rebuked the catholic church and all her false teachings and doctrine in the name of my Lord Jesus Christ at the age of 17…thus the search began…
Please inform me what has insulted you?
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If you did not see Jesus in your Catholic “time” you missed much. Any person that recognizes that Jesus is the Messiah is a Christian. Have you ever met a Catholic that denies that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light? No man can go to the Father except through the Son. Jesus is the rock we stand on.

I respect you in your search but name calling is not traveling the right road. May the Holy Spirit be with you as you continue your search.

We stand united before Jesus the King.
 
many ways to Christ but Only ONE Way to our Heavenly Father.
If you would only open your Bible…Why have a catecism?? Why have adoration of a person??? Mary. the pope/s why have things in your belief system without question obeyinmg them even though they are not Biblical???
having a bet each way doesn’t abide thee well.
 
babbc said:
It is written when Peter kneeled down and worshipped the Angel …The angel told him “see that you do it not for I too am a servant”
No man stands in the stead of The Christ.
It is written, “The heart of man is wicked, who shall know it”
How could Christ entrust His beloved Church to a man??

The pope represents a pagan faith not a Christian faith nor a relationship with Christ.
How someone could accept, nay demand the term Holy Father which is the term Christ Jesus my Lord spoke to our Heavenly Father in the garden before His crucifixion asking if there be a way for this “cup to pass Him, yet not My will but thine”
So we have some saying that pope is standing in the stead of Christ and on the same hand giving him a title which belongs ALONE to our Heavenly Father.
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REPORTED; proselytizing, insulting other members calling their faith Pagan
 
KrazyKat said:
Kneeling, genuflecting and bowing is not a sign of worship? When we do this during Mass in adoration it is not worship? Why do we do this JamesTheJust? For show. Heaven forbid. Guess it is what is in the mind and heart and soul which all belong to God alone.

It is not for me to judge others actions. I will answer to God for mine. Have a blessed day.
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So when we kneel in prayer before statues, images, and relics of saints, as the Church and her saints have done for 2000 years, we are committing idolatry? :eek:

When we kneel before God in Adoration, it’s the adoring part that makes it worship, not the kneeling part. Besides, the rule is “left knee for persons (Kings, Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Cardinals, Popes, etc.), right knee for Christ in the tabernacle, and both knees when the Eucharist is exposed,” so it’s not even the same type of kneeling we do before Christ.
 
JamesTheJust said:
So when we kneel in prayer before statues, images, and relics of saints, as the Church and her saints have done for 2000 years, we are committing idolatry? :eek:

When we kneel before God in Adoration, it’s the adoring part that makes it worship, not the kneeling part. Besides, the rule is “left knee for persons (Kings, Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Cardinals, Popes, etc.), right knee for Christ in the tabernacle, and both knees when the Eucharist is exposed,” so it’s not even the same type of kneeling we do before Christ.
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Thank you for the rules regarding kneeling. ( I honestly did not know that there were rules). I never referred to anything as idolatry, your words, not mine.

I am aware that there are those who kiss statues of saints, wrap their arms around them, kneel before them, etc. If this brings them closer to The Lord who am I to judge if this is right or wrong for them.

God alone is enough.
 
KrazyKat said:
Thank you for the rules regarding kneeling. ( I honestly did not know that there were rules). I never referred to anything as idolatry, your words, not mine.
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Well you did imply that kneeling automatically meant worship, and worship of anything or anyone other than God is idolatry. I just put your implied accusation into a word.
I am aware that there are those who kiss statues of saints, wrap their arms around them, kneel before them, etc. If this brings them closer to The Lord who am I to judge if this is right or wrong for them.
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If kneeling before statues that represent God’s saints is OK, then why is it not OK to kneel before the man who represents Christ on earth?
God alone is enough.
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I’m not sure what you mean by this.
 
KrazyKat said:
If I was in the armed forces, yes I would salute. Heck, I will salute the Pope even though it is not a requirement.

No it is not pride at all. I kiss the Holy Bible in adoration and love for the Truth, the Great I Am. I will kiss a Crucifix but the foot of a statue of Peter, no. I genuflect before the Tabernacle and bow before the Altar.

Any man who says they do not sin is a liar. I do not worship or adore any human. I will shake a persons hand and treat them with respect. Pope or beggar God loves us all although we are not worthy.

I love Pope Francis and would defend him with my life.
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When I’m finished praying the Hail Holy Queen in the Rosary, I kiss her on the cheek. Idolatry: yes or no?
 
JamesTheJust said:
Well you did imply that kneeling automatically meant worship, and worship of anything or anyone other than God is idolatry. I just put your implied accusation into a word.

If kneeling before statues that represent God’s saints is OK, then why is it not OK to kneel before the man who represents Christ on earth?

I’m not sure what you mean by this.
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Oh my, 🤷. My point is I will not tell anyone that wants to kneel before a statue of a saint or anything for that matter that they should not do that. My neighbor talks to her plants and is true tree hugger and she thinks I am nuts for praying the Rosary.

It is not important to anyone if I feel it is right or wrong and I certainly do not care what anyone thinks of me. God alone is enough. He is my love, my life, my all.

There is no one on earth that knows the mind of God. As Pope Francis has stated, " who am I to judge. "
 
This is America. We have a 200-plus year tradition of recognizing the rights of man, and that all men are created equal in the eyes of the law, and rich or poor, we are all the same. That’s what democracy teaches us; we don’t bow to others. We don’t have kings, or pontiffs, or people whose rings we kiss. No wonder the church gets a bad rap; too many trappings of elitism and behavior that begets a class system. You can honor Christ without all this hierarchical claptrap. AJ
 
KrazyKat said:
Oh my, 🤷. My point is I will not tell anyone that wants to kneel before a statue of a saint or anything for that matter that they should not do that. My neighbor talks to her plants and is true tree hugger and she thinks I am nuts for praying the Rosary.
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So you allege that all the saints (i.e. people whom we know to be in Heaven) who have done so have been unconfessed idolaters, and that all the popes, Doctors of the Church, Fathers, mystics, theologians, and other Catholics who have for 2000 years promoted the practice of kneeling before statues to have been promulgating heresy? :rolleyes:
 
atjar said:
This is America. We have a 200-plus year tradition of recognizing the rights of man, and that all men are created equal in the eyes of the law, and rich or poor, we are all the same. That’s what democracy teaches us; we don’t bow to others. We don’t have kings, or pontiffs, or people whose rings we kiss. No wonder the church gets a bad rap; too many trappings of elitism and behavior that begets a class system. You can honor Christ without all this hierarchical claptrap. AJ
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This is the Catholic Church. We have a 2000 year old tradition teaching that God has chosen and appointed men to shepherd and lead us unto Him in His stead, and that they deserve respect. That’s what the Church, Scripture, and Sacred Tradition teach us; we adore God and show reverence to those whom He has chosen. We have priests, bishops, and popes, who guide us in our faith. No wonder America gets a bad rap; there’s a lack of respect for divinely appointed authority that begets rebelliousness, individualism, pride, and disobedience. You can’t honor Christ properly without following His Church, which He appointed to teach all men the Truth (Jn 16:13, Mt 16, etc.).
 
JamesTheJust said:
This is the Catholic Church. We have a 2000 year old tradition teaching that God has chosen and appointed men to shepherd and lead us unto Him in His stead, and that they deserve respect. That’s what the Church, Scripture, and Sacred Tradition teach us; we adore God and show reverence to those whom He has chosen. We have priests, bishops, and popes, who guide us in our faith. No wonder America gets a bad rap; there’s a lack of respect for divinely appointed authority that begets rebelliousness, individualism, pride, and disobedience. You can’t honor Christ properly without following His Church, which He appointed to teach all men the Truth (Jn 16:13, Mt 16, etc.).
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I agree. Thank God I live in a society that leaders we respect are respected through a handshake, a greeting, not through subservient genuflecting. The Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church and sovereign state. Americans don’t curtsey or genuflect before mortal human beings, who are no better or worse that you and I. The Pope is a sinner as well. Behavior like that is for Christ only.
AJ
 
atjar said:
I agree. Thank God I live in a society that leaders we respect are respected through a handshake, a greeting, not through subservient genuflecting. The Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church and sovereign state. Americans don’t curtsey or genuflect before mortal human beings, who are no better or worse that you and I. The Pope is a sinner as well. Behavior like that is for Christ only.
AJ
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The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, not just another temporal leader. He deserves the utmost reverence, much more than earthly politicians. This is not because of his personal sanctity, which is of course equal to the rest of us, but by virtue of his office and Whom he represents.

Do you allege as well that venerating sacred art is idolatry?
 
JamesTheJust said:
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, not just another temporal leader. He deserves the utmost reverence, much more than earthly politicians. This is not because of his personal sanctity, which is of course equal to the rest of us, but by virtue of his office and Whom he represents.

Do you allege as well that venerating sacred art is idolatry?
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He is an earthly politician. Don’t kid yourself. He’s a politician for the Catholic Church, as Barack Obama is a politician for the Democratic Party. If you want to say he’s Christ’s representative on earth, go ahead. But he’s not Christ, and venerating a sinning human being, as well as venerating art, and bleeding statues, and saints, is idolatry. Christ is the way; all else is background noise. If only through Christ you are saved, why venerate intermediaries, especially those you have to kneel in front of?
AJ
 
atjar said:
He is an earthly politician. Don’t kid yourself. He’s a politician for the Catholic Church, as Barack Obama is a politician for the Democratic Party. If you want to say he’s Christ’s representative on earth, go ahead. But he’s not Christ, and venerating a sinning human being, as well as venerating art, and bleeding statues, and saints, is idolatry. Christ is the way; all else is background noise. If only through Christ you are saved, why venerate intermediaries, especially those you have to kneel in front of?
AJ
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We are very much aware that he is not Christ.

There really is no point in arguing about this. I understand that you have sharply different beliefs and I respect that.

If you keep arguing, you will just upset yourself and spend a long night tossing and turning because it is so frustrating when one wants to make a point, the point is well taken but it is rejected.
 
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