Genuflecting for Pope

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If your father is in Heaven, he is a saint (as that’s the definition of saint), and he is suitable to implore for intercession. However, unless your father has been cause for canonization has been opened, we can’t know that he is in Heaven, so he is unsuitable for prayer.
Again, man-made rules of canonization, and genuflecting, and more layers of stuff that is of no help to faith in Christ. Christ said he is the way. Only through him will I have salvation. Remembe when we were kids and played telephone? The last person on the end of the line sure as day got a garbled message so much different than what the original person had said. Same with prayer; I pray to Christ directly. Dont’ need intermediaries to muck things up for me. Same with venerations and adorations and really a lot of other embarassing pomp and circumstance that has no place in faith.

Enjoyed the discourse.
AJ
 
Again, man-made rules of canonization, and genuflecting, and more layers of stuff that is of no help to faith in Christ. Christ said he is the way. Only through him will I have salvation. Remembe when we were kids and played telephone? The last person on the end of the line sure as day got a garbled message so much different than what the original person had said. Same with prayer; I pray to Christ directly. Dont’ need intermediaries to muck things up for me. Same with venerations and adorations and really a lot of other embarassing pomp and circumstance that has no place in faith.
It hasn’t been much of a discourse, seeing as you’ve ignored what I say and just repeated the same thing again and again.

A question: what distinguishes you from a Protestant, seeing as you deny almost all the Catholic doctrine which we have presented to you (along with support from Scripture, which you ignored)?
 
It hasn’t been much of a discourse, seeing as you’ve ignored what I say and just repeated the same thing again and again.

A question: what distinguishes you from a Protestant, seeing as you deny almost all the Catholic doctrine which we have presented to you (along with support from Scripture, which you ignored)?
My Christian faith requires me to believe in Christ. Salvation is through him and that is enough.
THis other stuff is secondary and not-essential, well intentioned as it might be to others. That is all.
AJ
 
I agree. Thank God I live in a society that leaders we respect are respected through a handshake, a greeting, not through subservient genuflecting. The Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church and sovereign state. Americans don’t curtsey or genuflect before mortal human beings, who are no better or worse that you and I. The Pope is a sinner as well. Behavior like that is for Christ only.
AJ
Since you brought it up, I, now, descibe myself as Catholic first and American second.
After being a walking Fox News Alert for years, I finally decided that God is the only one who can save this country, and that’s where my allegiance lies.

I would rather bow before the Pope than shake the hands of most members of congress.
 
The Pope is the most important person on earth and the only person I would genuflect for. If it’s not possible to kiss the ring, one is to genuflect on their left knee and do the sign of the cross.
 
My Christian faith requires me to believe in Christ. Salvation is through him and that is enough.
I notice that you hesitate to say “My Catholic faith”. Hmmm…

If you’re going to ignore the words of Christ Himself in Matthew chapters 16 and 18, where He clearly gives sovereignty to the Church, I don’t know what to say.
THis other stuff is secondary and not-essential, well intentioned as it might be to others. That is all.
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

There’s no such thing as “secondary doctrine”.
 
As for kneeling in front of statues, I personally don’t do it. I do bow my head before them, but I don’t kneel in front of them. Why? Not because kneeling in front of them means that I worship them, but because it could cause unintentional scandal to someone who is not as strong in the faith as I am. I’m not talking about our Protestant brethren here, either. I’m talking about Catholics who are not well catechized and could be led into worshiping the statues instead of worshipping the Triune God. There is nothing wrong, in and of itself, in kneeling before statues of saints. However, we must be careful not to do anything that could unintentionally cause scandal. This comes straight from St. Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 8:
Now in regard to meat sacrificed to idols: We realize that “all of us have knowledge”; knowledge inflates with pride, but love builds up. If anyone supposes he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if one loves God, one is known by him. So about the eating of meat sacrificed to idols: we know that “there is no idol in the world” and that “there is no God but one.” Indeed, even though there are so-called gods in Heaven and on Earth (there are, to be sure, many “gods” and “lords”), yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things are and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and through whom we exist. But not all have this knowledge. There are some who have been so used to idolatry up until now that, when they eat meat sacrificed to idols, their conscience, which is weak, is defiled. Now food will not bring us closer to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, nor better off if we do. But make sure this liberty of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak. If someone sees you, with your knowledge, reclining at table in the temple of an idol, may not his conscience too, weak as it is, be “built up” to eat the meat sacrificed to idols? Thus through your knowledge, the weak person is brought to destruction, the brother for whom Christ died. When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause my brother to sin.
Though this passage is about meat sacrificed to idols (as most meat in pagan lands WAS sacrificed to idols), it applies to any practice that we do that is not sinful in and of itself (and could also be done in full piety), but could lead people who are not properly catechized into sin. As we live in a time where even most Catholics who go to Mass weekly are poorly catechized, we must be clearer in our actions and words that only the Triune God is to be worshipped. The saints point the way to God, but they are merely reflections of God’s light, even as they currently reside in God’s presence. We must be clear that we do not lead people into the pagan trap of worshipping the creation.
 
Personally I would not bow, kneel, genuflect or kiss the ring of any human being. Even Peter, as he too was only human. Certain gestures are for God alone.
Really, but you are Catholic.

We kiss the Popes ring to show that we acknowledge his authority.

What’s wrong with that?

Kissing the Pope’s ring is still very much practiced. I would certainly if there was time- which there likely wouldn’t be. Popes move through the crowd pretty quickly.
 
Personally I would not bow, kneel, genuflect or kiss the ring of any human being. Even Peter, as he too was only human. Certain gestures are for God alone.
I bow and kiss my wife’s hand everytime I lead her onto the dance floor. I would happily show the pope greater honor if he ever condescended to meet me personally. If God is offended by this, the popes have been offending God for centuries and I can hardly believe that.
 
I bow and kiss my wife’s hand everytime I lead her onto the dance floor. I would happily show the pope greater honor if he ever condescended to meet me personally. If God is offended by this, the popes have been offending God for centuries and I can hardly believe that.
I maintained throughout this thread that “I personally would not”, never did I say that others should not. If I ever get close to the Pope I will probably faint !
 
I’ve been advocating bringing bowing into American culture. Much more sanitary than shaking hands.

I like the idea of reserving some postures/gestures for God alone. Genuflecting on the right knee would be one.

As for genuflecting for the pope, I see it when the pope is receiving people. When it’s more of an impromptu greeting, people tend to bow to kiss the ring.

People never show other bishops any sign of respect. I’ve met bishops and simply shook their hands.

So, what should you do? When in Rome…
 
I’ve been advocating bringing bowing into American culture. Much more sanitary than shaking hands.

I like the idea of reserving some postures/gestures for God alone. Genuflecting on the right knee would be one.

As for genuflecting for the pope, I see it when the pope is receiving people. When it’s more of an impromptu greeting, people tend to bow to kiss the ring.

People never show other bishops any sign of respect. I’ve met bishops and simply shook their hands.

So, what should you do? When in Rome…
The proper way to greet a Bishop is to bow and kiss his ring. If it is the Bishop of your dioceses the custom/protocol is to genuflect on your left knee and kiss his ring. This is to be done when greeting and when leaving. The only time this is not done is if the Pope is present. Then you genuflect and kiss the Popes ring. In both instances men should also take off their hats if they’re wearing them.
 
The proper way to greet a Bishop is to bow and kiss his ring. If it is the Bishop of your dioceses the custom/protocol is to genuflect on your left knee and kiss his ring. This is to be done when greeting and when leaving. The only time this is not done is if the Pope is present. Then you genuflect and kiss the Popes ring. In both instances men should also take off their hats if they’re wearing them.
Wow. Really? When the Bishop was at our church and we exited the church I touched his shoulder and said " good homily." :confused:
 
Wow. Really? When the Bishop was at our church and we exited the church I touched his shoulder and said " good homily." :confused:
The proper way to greet him is as Credo described. However, if kneeling would be awkward or impossible, then we bow and kiss his ring. And if we can’t do that, we should at least be incredibly reverent (greeting him as “Your Excellency”, etc.).
 
The proper way to greet him is as Credo described. However, if kneeling would be awkward or impossible, then we bow and kiss his ring. And if we can’t do that, we should at least be incredibly reverent (greeting him as “Your Excellency”, etc.).
👍 Exactly! The man is a successor of the Apostles; a Prince of the Church! We should show respect for his office.
 
I thought the Pope was addressed as Holy Father. I would certainly kiss his ring if given a chance. That practice has kind of fallen out of favor in the US I think, with our bishops and other hierarchy. By the way, how does one address and Archbishop? I know Your Excellency for a Bishop, and Your Eminence for a Cardinal, but I am baffled by Archbishops.
 
I thought the Pope was addressed as Holy Father. I would certainly kiss his ring if given a chance. That practice has kind of fallen out of favor in the US I think, with our bishops and other hierarchy. By the way, how does one address and Archbishop? I know Your Excellency for a Bishop, and Your Eminence for a Cardinal, but I am baffled by Archbishops.
In many (most?) places an archbishop is addressed as “Your Grace”
 
In many (most?) places an archbishop is addressed as “Your Grace”
That’s a British style of address that has become very popular. However, it is equally correct to address an archbishop as “Your Excellency”.
 
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