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Jacob21
Guest
I had this question posed to me today. Should we ask for non-believers to genuflect in front of the tabernacle?
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1ke
Guest
No.
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Jacob21
Guest
Thanks.
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rick43235
Guest
As a non-believer who attends mass with my Catholic wife, I try my best to avoid being disrespectful, and I make an effort to just “blend in.” During mass, when everyone else stands, I stand. When everyone else kneels, I kneel. I try not to be a distraction to others. However, I just cannot make myself genuflect. I’ve actually tried it a few time, but it felt unnatural and, for me, dishonest. So…I always enter the pew from the side and never from the aisle, and I avoid situations where I would be crossing in front of the tabernacle at the front of the church when others are present.
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Lapey
Guest
Because they may not believe in the same things we believe in. One of my good friends has a Baptist wife, she come to mass with us occasionally but she doesn’t stand or kneel at the different mass parts or genuflect. She also doesn’t come up for communion or a blessing. But she goes in support of her soon to be permanent deacon husband.
Should she genuflect? I don’t think she should, it’s not her faith. What about the rest of you?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I say yes. If they are in our parishes, they should show due reverence even if its in the external only. If not respect for God, its respect for the believers who are there, provided too that it doesn’t violate any of their personal beliefs. But if it does, best that they avoid being so close to the tabernacle, like cross the center isle in front. Make the effort to go around the back, again being respectful of the believers who are there.
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Angelicus
Guest
Genuflection is an act of worship and assumes belief in the Divine Presence in the reserved sacrament. Unless one believes in that fact, any genuflection would be disingenuous, if not deceptive and hypocritical.
I agree with the other posters that non-Catholic Christians and non-believers should refrain from crossing in front of the tabernacle. They need to be told why we believe this way; not as a challenge to their faith, but an explanation of ours. It is better to use discretion and not cause offense to Catholic believers by not genuflecting. After all, that is what manners are for.
I agree with the other posters that non-Catholic Christians and non-believers should refrain from crossing in front of the tabernacle. They need to be told why we believe this way; not as a challenge to their faith, but an explanation of ours. It is better to use discretion and not cause offense to Catholic believers by not genuflecting. After all, that is what manners are for.
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LongJohnSilver
Guest
I like your attitude very much.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Genuflection is an act of reverence, not worship.
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Cat
Guest
But many Protestants, especially Evangelicals, Fundamentalists, and Pentecostals (in other words, the non-mainline Protestants) don’t understand this.
To them, any bending of the knee is an act of worship, and they make no distinction between veneration and worship.
I have known many Protestants while I was growing up who were adamant that even in the presence of an earthly king or queen, they would refuse to bow or in any way make an act that suggested reverence. These Protestants believe that such a physical gesture would be idolatrous, and that the only Person who is worthy of our bended knee is Jesus Christ, our King. Since they do not believe that Jesus is truly present in the Blessed Sacrament, they would never, ever agree to bow before a “box.”
I believe we need to respect their understand and traditions, and not force them to do anything that to them, is sin. It would be wrong of us to demand that someone else commit what to them is sin.
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Roy5
Guest
Cat (#12) sums things up well. While Protestants may differ - Anglicans are much more liturgical than Baptists, for example - many of them, probably most, take the Ten Commandments quite literally when it forbids making “any graven image” and “thou shall not bow before them” etc. (Ex 20:3-4).
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Protestants I know, when guests at a Catholic mass, stand or sit with the congregation. They divide on whether to kneel. Many do. Some don't. They tend to follow the Jewish tradition of avoiding what they see as 'graven images' in their churches. Some Protestants noticed that many Catholic churches removed various statues following Vatican II. Apparently there was a reaction against too much statuary??? I know that the oldest Catholic church in this community had many statues up front and on the sides. Now there are only two, one of Christ, the other of Mary.
As for genuflection, it would be hypocritical (as someone has suggested) for Protestants who don't believe that Christ is in the Tabernacle to kneel upon entering a pew. Protestants tend to emphasize the promise of Christ that "lo, I am with you always" -and don't distinguish between the presence of Christ on the altar and the presence of Christ everywhere and at all times. Christ, some might argue, can't be quantified in that fashion - more in one place than another.
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graceandglory
Guest
Well, as a bible believing Christian, how is kneeling before an image of Christ NOT her faith?
*** It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.’”***
Romans 14:11
I can’t figure that one out.
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Lapey
Guest
You are not serious are you? A baptist does not believe in the Eucharist, the need for the tabernacle or the altar for that matter. Much less reverance them by genuflection.Well, as a bible believing Christian, how is kneeling before an image of Christ NOT her faith?
*** It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.’”***
Romans 14:11
I can’t figure that one out.
Please accept my apology if I misunderstood what you were saying here.
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stormy99
Guest
**My grandmother was Eastern Orthodox and you got an elbow if you didn’t stand, knee or kiss the crucifix…and it hurt.
stormy**
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graceandglory
Guest
Actually I was being serious. I was a non Catholic for a lot of years, I didn’t know nuthin’ about the altar or the tabernacle. The biggest thing in my line of sight was the crucifix.
A baptist should know that ever knee will bow, so it seems to me to be disrespectful to not genuflect. You aren’t attesting to anything except bowing in reverence before the Lord.
As a good baptist I used to always sing,
Come let us worship and bow down,
Let us kneel before the Lord our God our Maker…
but we never did kneel. It was just a figure of speech.
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Cat
Guest
Again, to a Baptist (and I was one for 47 years), the tabernacle is NOT Jesus, it is a box. The Eucharist is NOT Jesus, it is a wafer, just a symbol of Jesus. To bow before such things, for a Baptist, would be idolatrous.Actually I was being serious. I was a non Catholic for a lot of years, I didn’t know nuthin’ about the altar or the tabernacle. The biggest thing in my line of sight was the crucifix.
A baptist should know that ever knee will bow, so it seems to me to be disrespectful to not genuflect. You aren’t attesting to anything except bowing in reverence before the Lord.
As a good baptist I used to always sing,
Come let us worship and bow down,
Let us kneel before the Lord our God our Maker…
but we never did kneel. It was just a figure of speech.
graceandglory, try to grasp that. It would be sin to a Baptist to kneel before something that they believe is not Jesus. They will not do so even to show respect for other humans and their traditions. E.g., you will never see a Baptist bow and clap before a statue of Buddha or any of the Eastern deities, even to show respect for the indigenous peoples and their customs. They show their respect by standing back and not protesting while others bow, but they will not bow themselves.
I’m thinking that many Baptists would not show any visible sign of reverence for the Holy Father, other than offering a handshake (Sign of Peace). When I was Baptist, I would never have bowed before the Holy Father or any other human being. The concept of bowing to show respect was not in my understanding. To me, it was giving away honor that belongs only to Jesus.
There have been Baptist martyrs who have refused to honor the Catholic “sacraments” such as baptism–they have gone to execution rather than submit to something that they consider blasphemous or idolatrous.
So again, it would be wrong of us to force a fellow Christian (Protestant) to do something that they think is sin, and it would be counterproductive to not allow them in our churches if they refuse to bow before Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. We WANT Protestants in our churches so that they will be confronted by Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, so that they will see Him “lifted up” by the priest after the consecration, and eventually, come to believe in the Holy Catholic Church and convert. We must not put stumbling blocks in the paths of those who are not yet “home” to the Catholic Church. We must allow them to obey their conscience and trust that the Holy Spirit will lead them into all truth and eventually convict them that Jesus is Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, in the Blessed Sacrament in repose in the tabernacle.
And once a Baptist converts, believe me, they will be more reverent towards Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament than many Catholics!
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Lapey
Guest
Great post CAT.Actually I was being serious. I was a non Catholic for a lot of years, I didn’t know nuthin’ about the altar or the tabernacle. The biggest thing in my line of sight was the crucifix.
A baptist should know that ever knee will bow, so it seems to me to be disrespectful to not genuflect. You aren’t attesting to anything except bowing in reverence before the Lord.
As a good baptist I used to always sing,
Come let us worship and bow down,
Let us kneel before the Lord our God our Maker…
but we never did kneel. It was just a figure of speech.
One other point to add, you say the crucifix should bring the Baptist to her knees; well to most protestants the crucifix is offensive. We Catholics put Jesus back on the cross, she would be appalled by this Catholic symbol, not compelled to reverence it like us who understand it.
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graceandglory
Guest
Okay, fine counterpoint. But that is a baptist who has already been filled with anti Catholic propaganda. I would think that for any purist, with just a bible and themselves, they would not be offended by the crucifix. It is the work of the anti Catholic propagandists, not their baptist background that would make them appalled by the cross.
And I don’t suggest forcing anyone. I still think it would be disrespectful for a Christian believer to not bend a knee when that is the culture.
My point I guess, in all this is to point out what I see as almost a dishonesty in their faith and practice. They talk and talk and memorize verses about bowing a knee, but in actuality, they don’t.
“Let’s bow our knees in our hearts…” is a phrase I remember from those days.
God made us with knees that bend. Scripture says all knees will bow down.
The Kingdom of God is at hand. Let’s bend out knees. What are we waiting for?
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