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kleary
Guest
He bows to the crucifix. The Deacon and all below genuflect. (Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described - fortescue and o’connel)
Ken
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Ken
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kleary
Guest
No tabernacle on altar = priest bows, Deacon, sub deacon and servers all genuflect.
Ken
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markadm
Guest
This is off-topic, but in case anyone has a quick answer: do the novus ordo rubrics mandate genuflection to the tabernacle?
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Brennan_Doherty
Guest
I’ve always found it odd that in our Cathedral, where the Tabernacle has been moved off to the side and mostly out of sight, when I genuflect when entering the pew, who or what am I genuflecting to? It seems that if the Tabernacle had not been moved traditionally it would be the Tabernacle as that is where Christ is present.
Should I orient my body to the side when I’m genuflecting so I’m genuflecting to the Tabernacle?
Should I orient my body to the side when I’m genuflecting so I’m genuflecting to the Tabernacle?
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Resurrexi
Guest
I always do. But that’s just me.
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kleary
Guest
In Cathedral churches it is not uncommon even before the church wreckovations took place to have the Sanctissimum reserved in a Tabernacle in a side chapel. If you are not visiting the chapel where the Sanctissimum is reserved you still would genuflect to the High Altar (bow if you are a priest) which symbolizes Christ. If the Tabernacle has been moved simply to a corner of the building and not in its own chapel then I would make a point of going there first and foremost, genuflecting there before the Tabernacle and then upon entering your pew to genuflect again to respect the Altar in which the sacrifice for your salvation is offered upon.
Ken
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
I’m sorry for my ignorance but what does EF stand for.Eh, don’t worry too much about it. They said they will teaching us the EF soon enough, things are being polarized in the right direction.
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RomanRevert
Guest
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kleary
Guest
“EF” is an abbreviation for “Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite of Mass”.
The term Extraordinary Form was given to the Classical Roman Rite of Mass that has been used for worship in all Catholic Churches since the Council of Trent up until 1965 and basically the Rite of Mass since day one as it grew under natural liturgical development in Rome. Pope Benedict XVI gave the Classical Roman Mass this name in 2007 to avoid having two different “rites” within the Roman Rite (Tridentine [EF] and Novus Ordo [Ordinary Form or OF] - Novus Ordo being the current mannar of worship normally used in all Catholic Churches in the Roman Rite that was created by liturgical “experts” in the 1960’s and then imposed by Pope Paul VI on the entire Roman Rite of the Church).
Ken
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AJV
Guest
Though for a long time, I think it was custom in the USA to bow instead. The Baltimore Ceremonial mentions that this is the reply of the Propaganda:
And I’ve seen similar statements in old issues of the Ecclesiastical Review.
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
Thank you for the clarifying the EF and OF.
I genuflect toward the Tabernacle. have never been told I was incorrect and have never given it much thought. I see some that give merely a quick bow and in these Modern times I find some solace in the fact that they as least show that much reverence. I am one of the unfortunates that was born in the mid 60’s and have no memory of the TLM. I have though be fortunate to find a parish in Kentucky that offers the TML I no at least once every Sunday and have been to one with plans to attend more often i loved It.
I genuflect toward the Tabernacle. have never been told I was incorrect and have never given it much thought. I see some that give merely a quick bow and in these Modern times I find some solace in the fact that they as least show that much reverence. I am one of the unfortunates that was born in the mid 60’s and have no memory of the TLM. I have though be fortunate to find a parish in Kentucky that offers the TML I no at least once every Sunday and have been to one with plans to attend more often i loved It.
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kleary
Guest
Oh, and I must correct myself here…it is the ALTAR that is genuflected to in the EF when there is no tabernacle on it by all below the rank of priest…I mentioned crucifix but it is the altar and not the crucifix.
Ken
Ken
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sphilomena
Guest
You are correct to genuflect toward the Tabernacle. We are talking about the laity, upon entering church, etc., that is. Those who bow are not correct. (One bows to the altar, assuming the Tabernacle is not there.) All those bows before the Tabernacle started in recent years, not sure how it all began. Just shows how much confusion there is about a lot of things.
There have been a couple of similar threads lately - about genuflecting. I have mentioned on one of them that I really like Elliott’s book - The Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite.
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kleary
Guest
Not sure how it all began…we are asking ourselves the same question 30 years or so after it all has happened. Like how come some of the new modern looking churches were built - with removal of statues, crucifix, replace altar with table and put the tabernacle in a seperate room MANY YEARS BEFORE the Novus Ordo was published in 1970??? Like some people had this whole thing planned out and were going ahead with “changes” already in motion and not even published yet?
As I said, in the EF, lay people and Deacons genuflect even when the Tabernacle is not there. They genuflect to the altar. Priests on the other hand bow.
In the OF this has been changed
.
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johnnydigit
Guest
i read a bulletin at a church that said you bow before entering the pew, and genuflect when exiting?
this does suck. i wish someone with guts would just lay down the law for everyone’s sake. too many choices…
this does suck. i wish someone with guts would just lay down the law for everyone’s sake. too many choices…
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BritishCatholic
Guest
See, I don’t quite understand this.As I said, in the EF, lay people and Deacons genuflect even when the Tabernacle is not there. They genuflect to the altar. Priests on the other hand bow.
In the OF this has been changed
I am a Traditional Catholic, don’t get me wrong, but I never thought it corrrect when purposely genuflecting to the altar fully knowing the Blessed Sacrament is not there. To me, is just doesn’t seem right. Genuflection should only be done towards the Blessed Sacrament; not an altar, not even if it’s St. Peter’s. Bowing definitely, even profoundly. But when that right knee touches the floor, that’s for Jesus alone.
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AJV
Guest
No, I’m speaking about the EF. Fortescue and O’Connell does not take into account the different customs. The Baltimore Ceremonial was prepared for the dioceses of the USA and the response I quoted are from the late 19th beginning of the 20th century. The decree number is a reference to the Decreta Authentica of the Congregation of Rites.
I think that many of these have disappeared because the fromer scarcity of the TLM lead to much uniformity in practise.
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kleary
Guest
The “Right knee touching the floor” is not for Jesus alone in the EF. However it is what you INTEND on doing when you genuflect on the right knee that matters.
As a lay person in the EF you genuflect on the right knee three times to the Roman Pontiff or once to any other Bishop when meeting him. You also genuflect to the High Altar of Sacrifice which symbolizes Jesus Christ and contains relics of the Saints.
In the Mass of the Presanctified you even take your shoes off and approach the crucifix- genuflect three times- and kiss the feet of the image of Jesus Christ crucified. Whoa… a Protestant just had a heart attack after hearing that.
Ken
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markadm
Guest
I thought you swapped knees for the Pope/Bishop?
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