Geocentric Universe?

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May I suggest that people read the rebuttals to posts by Cassini and others who in some instances misrepresent the workings of the visible Church. Then one will be able to understand why some of the above statements are off base. First, not everything the Fathers’ believed is part of the Catholic Faith. Modernism is not the same as science. There is no one ancient book of myths. By the beginning of the 20th Century, Catholic belief was not in chaos because it was the same belief as taught by Jesus Christ and maintained through the ages as the Catholic Deposit of Faith. For verification, check footnotes in

Believing in geocentrism or evolutionary theory or a PC, TV, ATM, L, etc., does not change the basic life questions today’s humans face. These are: Where do we come from? Where are we going? What is our origin? What is our end?
Granny, you are telling us that the Catholic Church that considered heliocentricism formal heresy for ONE HUNDRED YEARS were all IDIOTS like me and Luke 65, using an instrument set up by earlier popes to EXAMINE SERIOUS HERESY to propagate an error of judgement, or as you would like to think, to uphold a joke? It was TRENT and the Church of 1616 that UPHELD THE INTERPRETATION of the FATHERS. But you Copernicans feel superior to their judgements. Are you even aware of your position?
 
Granny, you are telling us that the Catholic Church that considered heliocentricism formal heresy for ONE HUNDRED YEARS were all IDIOTS like me and Luke 65, using an instrument set up by earlier popes to EXAMINE SERIOUS HERESY to propagate an error of judgement, or as you would like to think, to uphold a joke? It was TRENT and the Church of 1616 that UPHELD THE INTERPRETATION of the FATHERS. But you Copernicans feel superior to their judgements. Are you even aware of your position?
No to first question. Yes to second question.
Note: I have not participated in the science discussion on heliocentricism and geocentricism. I have participated in the religious discussion on the workings or operation of the visible Church. I do not consider anyone idiots in capital letters.
 
Further comic relief from the peanut gallery…
I do not consider anyone idiots in capital letters.
This sentence is amusingly vague, having at least three possible interpretations:
  1. I do not consider anyone idiots in capital letters (but I may consider them idiots in small letters). 😊
  2. I DO NOT CONSIDER ANYONE IDIOTS.
  3. I do not consider anyone IDIOTS.
I’m betting that #3 is right, but I prefer #2 myself. Apparently the CAPS LOCK key wasn’t working. 😉
 
Newtonian orbital calculations cannot properly account for the observed motion of Mercury, there are always slight errors. However, when Einstrinian formula are used, which take the relativistic effects of the Sun’s mass and the speed of Mercury’s motion around the Sun, it can predict it’s motion absolutely accurately.
How can GR be cited, a logically inconsistent system? Relativity fails the consistency rules of evidence in the scientific method.
Where can we find this absolutely accurate prediction of Mercury’s motion?

This is the way orbital mechanics is done in reality. The model which best agrees with the latest ephemeris is used for tracking and navigation… But each new ephemeris requires model corrections. Models are always a work in progress, because there are many unknown factors - even gravity has a unknown mechanism.

It makes no sense to claim that any theory - much less a logically contradictory one like GR - is absolutely accurate.

In Relativity: An Approximation, Charles Lane Poor observed how GR twists reality to claim experimental proof:

*The generalized theory of relativity has been accepted as proved by the motions of Mercury that, according to the relativists, cannot be explained or accounted for by the ordinary methods of astronomical research. Now, how does the relativity theory explain these motions of Mercury? In what way do the formulas of relativity differ from those of the old fashioned classical mathematics of Newton, La Place, and Leverrier?
The formula of relativity, upon which is based the relativist’s explanations of these phenomena, is found, upon analysis, to be nothing more nor less than an approximation towards the well known formula of Newtonian mathematics. The relativity formula, as used in the astronomical portion of the theory, contains not the slightest trace of the basic postulates of relativity, of warped space, or the mythical fourth dimension. It is a formula of Newtonian gravitation, purely and simply; but an approximate formula, derived by a series of approximations.
In deriving the formulas for the transmission of light throughout space and for the motion of one particle of matter about another, the relativity mathematician encounters a serious difficulty. His formula, derived from the postulates of relativity, indicates that light travels with different speeds in different directions, that the velocity of light depends upon the direction of transmission.
To overcome this mathematical difficulty, or inconvenience, as he calls it, the relativist makes a substitution, or approximation. Instead of using the direct distance between the centers of two particles of matter, the relativist adds a small, a very small, factor to this distance [the Schwarzschild radius, as Eddington puts it, “we shall slightly alter our co-ordinates.” Such an approximation is very common among physicists: it is done every day to simplify troublesome formulas. …Remember always that the final result is necessarily approximate, and, before drawing any conclusion, to thoroughly test the effects of the approximation. [which distorted the distances]
Now the quantity, m, which is thus added to the distance to simplify the relativity equation, represents the mass of the attracting body, expressed in linear relativity units. This little quantity is very much less than the billionth part of an inch; for the earth itself it is only about one-sixth (1/6) of an inch. The approximation really consists in adding 1/6th of an inch to each and every distance measured from the center of the earth, less than one part in a billion, a quantity absolutely inappreciable in any physical problem.
No laboratory methods can measure with this degree of accuracy. But it is radically different in astronomy: distance and motion are on enormous scales, and a minute approximation might become evident in the motions of the planets.
Now this minute approximation is the sole appreciable difference between the so-called Einstein law of motion and the old fashioned mathematics of Newton. By omitting this approximation and using the exact distance between the centers of the two bodies the Einstein formula becomes identical with that of Newton: on the other hand, if, in the Newtonian formula the approximate distance be used, then this formula becomes identical with Einstein’s.
There is no essential difference between the two formulas: Einstein’s formula is an approximation towards Newton’s; except for the approximation, it is Newton’s. In the Einstein formula for the orbit of a planet there is not the slightest trace of relativity; there is no warped space, no fourth dimension; there is nothing but every-day, ordinary Newtonian gravitation, but approximate gravitation. The approximation is in the Einstein equation; not in the Newtonian.
When the motions of the planets about the sun are considered, the little quantity, m, becomes proportionally larger, being in fact about nine-tenths of a mile. And the relativity approximation consists of using in their formulas, not the actual distance of a planet from the center of the sun, but that distance increased by nine-tenths (0.91) of a mile. This same distance is added to the distance of each and every planet. In all real astronomical work the center of the sun is the fundamental point of reference in the solar system.
The actual distance of a planet from this point is measured, or calculated, or tabulated. But the relativity approximate formula does not give this actual distance: in the case of each and every planet it gives this distance increased by 9/10th of a mile. *
 
Further comic relief from the peanut gallery…

This sentence is amusingly vague, having at least three possible interpretations:
  1. I do not consider anyone idiots in capital letters (but I may consider them idiots in small letters). 😊
  2. I DO NOT CONSIDER ANYONE IDIOTS.
  3. I do not consider anyone IDIOTS.
I’m betting that #3 is right, but I prefer #2 myself. Apparently the CAPS LOCK key wasn’t working. 😉
:rotfl:#2 is good! Note to self: fix caps lock key.😉
 
Further comic relief from the peanut gallery…

This sentence is amusingly vague, having at least three possible interpretations:
  1. I do not consider anyone idiots in capital letters (but I may consider them idiots in small letters). 😊
  2. I DO NOT CONSIDER ANYONE IDIOTS.
  3. I do not consider anyone IDIOTS.
I’m betting that #3 is right, but I prefer #2 myself. Apparently the CAPS LOCK key wasn’t working. 😉
Son, what if IDIOTS was meant metaphorically like the Bible uses FIXED instead of MOVING?
 

Quote:
Newtonian orbital calculations cannot properly account for the observed motion of Mercury, there are always slight errors. However, when Einstrinian formula are used, which take the relativistic effects of the Sun’s mass and the speed of Mercury’s motion around the Sun, it can predict it’s motion absolutely accurately.

Reply

How can GR be cited, a logically inconsistent system? Relativity fails the consistency rules of evidence in the scientific method.
Where can we find this absolutely accurate prediction of Mercury’s motion?

This is the way orbital mechanics is done in reality. The model which best agrees with the latest ephemeris is used for tracking and navigation… But each new ephemeris requires model corrections. Models are always a work in progress, because there are many unknown factors - even gravity has a unknown mechanism.

It makes no sense to claim that any theory - much less a logically contradictory one like GR - is absolutely accurate.

In Relativity: An Approximation, Charles Lane Poor observed how GR twists reality to claim experimental proof:

*The generalized theory of relativity has been accepted as proved by the motions of Mercury that, according to the relativists, cannot be explained or accounted for by the ordinary methods of astronomical research. Now, how does the relativity theory explain these motions of Mercury? In what way do the formulas of relativity differ from those of the old fashioned classical mathematics of Newton, La Place, and Leverrier?
The formula of relativity, upon which is based the relativist’s explanations of these phenomena, is found, upon analysis, to be nothing more nor less than an approximation towards the well known formula of Newtonian mathematics. The relativity formula, as used in the astronomical portion of the theory, contains not the slightest trace of the basic postulates of relativity, of warped space, or the mythical fourth dimension. It is a formula of Newtonian gravitation, purely and simply; but an approximate formula, derived by a series of approximations.
In deriving the formulas for the transmission of light throughout space and for the motion of one particle of matter about another, the relativity mathematician encounters a serious difficulty. His formula, derived from the postulates of relativity, indicates that light travels with different speeds in different directions, that the velocity of light depends upon the direction of transmission.
To overcome this mathematical difficulty, or inconvenience, as he calls it, the relativist makes a substitution, or approximation. Instead of using the direct distance between the centers of two particles of matter, the relativist adds a small, a very small, factor to this distance [the Schwarzschild radius, as Eddington puts it, “we shall slightly alter our co-ordinates.” Such an approximation is very common among physicists: it is done every day to simplify troublesome formulas. …Remember always that the final result is necessarily approximate, and, before drawing any conclusion, to thoroughly test the effects of the approximation. [which distorted the distances]
Now the quantity, m, which is thus added to the distance to simplify the relativity equation, represents the mass of the attracting body, expressed in linear relativity units. This little quantity is very much less than the billionth part of an inch; for the earth itself it is only about one-sixth (1/6) of an inch. The approximation really consists in adding 1/6th of an inch to each and every distance measured from the center of the earth, less than one part in a billion, a quantity absolutely inappreciable in any physical problem.
No laboratory methods can measure with this degree of accuracy. But it is radically different in astronomy: distance and motion are on enormous scales, and a minute approximation might become evident in the motions of the planets.
Now this minute approximation is the sole appreciable difference between the so-called Einstein law of motion and the old fashioned mathematics of Newton. By omitting this approximation and using the exact distance between the centers of the two bodies the Einstein formula becomes identical with that of Newton: on the other hand, if, in the Newtonian formula the approximate distance be used, then this formula becomes identical with Einstein’s.
There is no essential difference between the two formulas: Einstein’s formula is an approximation towards Newton’s; except for the approximation, it is Newton’s. In the Einstein formula for the orbit of a planet there is not the slightest trace of relativity; there is no warped space, no fourth dimension; there is nothing but every-day, ordinary Newtonian gravitation, but approximate gravitation. The approximation is in the Einstein equation; not in the Newtonian.
When the motions of the planets about the sun are considered, the little quantity, m, becomes proportionally larger, being in fact about nine-tenths of a mile. And the relativity approximation consists of using in their formulas, not the actual distance of a planet from the center of the sun, but that distance increased by nine-tenths (0.91) of a mile. This same distance is added to the distance of each and every planet. In all real astronomical work the center of the sun is the fundamental point of reference in the solar system.
The actual distance of a planet from this point is measured, or calculated, or tabulated. But the relativity approximate formula does not give this actual distance: in the case of each and every planet it gives this distance increased by 9/10th of a mile. *
This is what you get with Keplerian, Newtonian ellipses. How many are even aware that Domenico Cassini showed ellipses are for the birds and that is why ‘Newtonian orbital calculations cannot properly account for the observed motion of Mercury,’
 
Charles, I do not reject empirical evidence, if I did I would be an idiot. What I do not do is go beyond the limit of empirical science in preference to the definition of the Church I believe in as protected in truth by Christ.

Science has established that all the planets do orbit the sun. this has been known since Tycho de Brahe in the 16 th century. But empirical science cannot determine if the earth is a planet orbiting the sun or if the sun orbits the earth.
“Science has established that all the planets do orbit the sun.”

“But empirical science cannot determine if the earth is a planet orbiting the sun or if the sun orbits the earth.” :confused:

Everything we can observe in the cosmos shows that objects with smaller masses orbit the larger masses. Other planets moon systems, galaxies, binary stars, our moon, asteroids and comets etc etc. There IS NOT ONE instance of objects with larger masses orbiting an object with a smaller mass. You must also not accept that mass cannot pass light speed. Even although this again as NEVER been observed.

The idea that everything in the universe orbits the earth is absurd on the highest level.
 
Alas Charles, I fear you are so full of intellectual pride you are blind to the limits of science and prefer your intellectual dictates as superior to the interpretation of the Fathers (considered infallible) and the judgement of the Church.
I am full of nothing, i just find your hypothesis that the devil is tricking us with science to be a little ridiculous. :o
 
I am full of nothing, i just find your hypothesis that the devil is tricking us with science to be a little ridiculous. :o
The Devil’s trick is not science; it is blind pride. And yes, it is ridiculous that personal blind pride can get in the way of science or religion.
 
“Science has established that all the planets do orbit the sun.”

“But empirical science cannot determine if the earth is a planet orbiting the sun or if the sun orbits the earth.” :confused:

Everything we can observe in the cosmos shows that objects with smaller masses orbit the larger masses. Other planets moon systems, galaxies, binary stars, our moon, asteroids and comets etc etc. There IS NOT ONE instance of objects with larger masses orbiting an object with a smaller mass. You must also not accept that mass cannot pass light speed. Even although this again as NEVER been observed.

The idea that everything in the universe orbits the earth is absurd on the highest level.
See Charles, you bring the truth down to human reasoning on small bodies orbiting larger bodies. In other words you conclude THIS because of THAT. This is AN ASSUMPTION. ASSUMPTIONS are not science and do not prove anything so the core earth/sun question has not been proven either way. Of course geocentricism does not comply with your heliocentric ASSUMPTIONS, but that is taken for granted. Now you, Pope John Paul II and all the other human reason over faith Copernicans can chose what you like, but ASSUMPTIONS apart, I chose God’s omnipotence to create what HE said in the Scriptures He created.
 
We use human reason because God gave us human reason… the Scriptures are books of faith, as I have said time and time again, and though fully inspired and true they are not always meant to be understood in the most literal sense. Science was left to us by God to figure out on our own, and He gave us human reason to do so.
 
Don’t worry, you’re not the first one to think they had driven the “final nail in the coffin” of Geocentrism, and you surely won’t be the last. I don’t do math, but I can see that you’re making a centuries old error in forgetting that there is a whole universe outside of our Earth/sun system that affects both the Earth and sun. Maybe you’ll listen to Fred…
In the spirit of interest of the geocentric position, I would like to hear what your or anyone else’s explanation is of something I demonstrated earlier (post 494, page 33).

The mass of the earth can be determined regardless of its motion or lack thereof. When you calculate the mass of the earth based on the assumption that it travels around the sun, you get the same mass within substantially less than 1% error.

Is this just a coincidence?
 
We use human reason because God gave us human reason… the Scriptures are books of faith, as I have said time and time again, and though fully inspired and true they are not always meant to be understood in the most literal sense. Science was left to us by God to figure out on our own, and He gave us human reason to do so.
Also, please check out the Teen Catholic Converts Colony
Hi GeorgeSword,

Agree. Scriptures are books of faith.
I did check out the Teen Catholic Converts Colony . And left a post…
 
In Relativity: An Approximation, Charles Lane Poor observed how GR twists reality to claim experimental proof:
cont…

It is this approximation, which gives rise to the apparent, or so-called, Einstein motion of an elliptic orbit. According to the Newtonian formula the elliptic orbit of a planet (when the interaction of the other planets is omitted) is fixed in space; according to the Einstein formula the elliptic orbit is in slow motion, so that the perihelion appears to advance.
But the Newtonian formula is mathematically exact; the Einstein formula contains an approximation, and the apparent theoretical Einstein rotation of an orbit, the theoretical Einstein advance of the perihelion is due, entirely, to the approximation so contained in his formula. The theoretical orbit of a planet is fixed in space, as shown by the mathematically exact Newtonian formula; there is no Einstein motion of the perihelion; the so-called Einstein rotation of an orbit is a mathematical illusion, caused by using an approximate formula.
But, while the Einstein motion is pure illusion, there is an actual motion of the perihelia of all the planets. When the mutual interactions of the planets, one upon another, are taken into account, then it is found that the orbits of all of them are in motion; the simple elliptic orbits writhe and squirm, so to speak, under the additional forces of the planets themselves.
Not a single orbit is at rest, not a single orbit is a true ellipse. The orbit of Mercury, for example, swings around at the rate of 576 seconds of arc per century; that of Mars at the rate of 1606 seconds per century. Leverrier in 1859 computed the action of each and every planet upon the orbit of Mercury, and found that these attractions would account for only 538 seconds or arc, thus leaving an unexplained 38 seconds in the centennial advance of Mercury’s perihelion. This is the celebrated discordance, which has been so stressed by Einstein and his followers. Leverrier explained it by the action of an unknown planet, or of masses of matter, between Mercury and the sun. While it is now known that no large planet is there, yet observations and photographs, without number, show clearly the presence of great masses of scattered matter in the very places that Leverrier indicated as necessary to explain this motion of Mercury.
But the relativity approximate formula gives rise to an apparent, or fictitious, motion of the orbit of Mercury of some 43 seconds of arc per century. And it is this approximate coincidence of figures, 43 seconds of illusion as against 38 seconds of actuality, which has been used by Einstein and is followers as proof, conclusive, of the relativity theory. As the relativity advance, as this 43 seconds, is a mere mathematical illusion, as there is, in reality, no such thing as the Einstein rotation of an orbit, this approximate coincidence of figures has no bearing, whatsoever, upon the truth or falsity of the relativity postulates.
Eddington integrates this fundamental equation of relativity dynamics and finds the complete path of any body, Mercury, Jupiter, or a material particle travelling with the speed of light. This complete and general orbit of any body, of Mercury or of a ray of light, is given by Eddington in his discussion of the motion of the perihelion of Mercury, and this orbital equation of relativity, so given by Eddington, differs from the ordinary equation of celestial mechanics by a single small term, by the term which gives rise to the so-called relativity motion of the perihelion. According to repeated statements of Einstein, of Eddington and of other relativists, according to the printed formulas of relativity, the relativity orbit, or path of a body is identical with that of Newtonian mathematics, with the single exception of this perihelial motion. This complete formula for the orbit of a body is used by the relativists to find the so-called motion of the perihelion of Mercury, to find the celebrated 43 seconds of arc, upon which is based the Mercurial proof of the Einstein theory.
But, by the equivalence principle, this same orbital equation should give the track of a ray of light, passing near the sun. Substituting in this equation the distance of the ray from the sun’s centre and its speed, the resulting orbit, or track of a ray is a hyperbola, and the total deflection, or bending is easily shown to be 0.87 seconds of arc, agreeing identically with that found from the Newtonian equation. This is necessarily so, for the two equations are the same, with the exception of the small term, which gives rise to the motion of the perihelion. In the case of Mercury, this minute term appears to give a motion of the perihelion of 0.103 seconds of arc in one revolution of the planet in its orbit (42.7 seconds per century): in the case of a ray of light, the same term amounts to about only thirty five millionths (0.000,035) of a second of arc, a quantity absolutely negligible.
That is, the very formula, used by the relativists to prove their theory by the motion of Mercury, disproves their computed value for the light deflection. This equation, their own equation, gives the so-called Newtonian value, 0.87 seconds of arc, for the bending of a ray of light by the gravitational action of the sun.


AMDG
 
In Relativity: An Approximation, Charles Lane Poor observed how GR twists reality to claim experimental proof:
cont…

*The relativist, however, does not use this orbital equation in his calculations of the amount of the light deflection. He reverts to the fundamental differential equation and integrates it in an entirely different manner for the track of the light ray. This second method of integrating the fundamental equation is, however, frankly approximate and gives a result which applies solely to light. Before beginning the integration, Eddington discards a term from the fundamental equation as being, in the case of light, infinitely small in comparison with other terms in the equation. This simplifies the equation, and the integration of the thus mutilated equation results in a curved path, which may approximate that of a light ray, but which is clearly approximate. The total bending, resulting from the use of this approximate path, is the relativity figure of 1.75 seconds of arc.
The validity of this method depends upon the question as to whether the discarded term is really very small with respect to those retained, or not. The omitted term is a constant, while the value of the term retained varies with the movement of the light particle along the curved orbit. A very simple comparison of this rejected term with the one retained shows that, in the most favorable case, the term, I/P, which Eddington omits as negligibly small, is two-thirds (2/3rds) as great as the term which he retains. Two thirds can hardly be called negligibly small in comparison with unity. Further, except for a minute portion of the curve near perihelion, the omitted term I/P is actually very much larger than the term, 3mu^2, which is retained. Eddington, in fact, omits as negligibly small, the large, important term of the equation, and retains the insignificant term. It would thus seem that the approximation used by Eddington to integrate the equation for the deflection of light is invalid, and that the resulting value for the bending of the light ray is erroneous. Both methods of integrating the fundamental relativity equation cannot be right: one or the other must be wrong. The first and more general method, as we have seen, is used by the relativist to obtain the so-called relativity motion of the perihelion of Mercury, but this method gives the deflection of light only 0.87 seconds of arc; the second method is restricted to light, is frankly approximate, and gives the amount of the deflection as 1.75 seconds. The same equation is handled by the relativist in two different ways and gives two radically different results. Which result is correct?
The relativist apparently checks his invalid calculation by the use of an entirely different method, a physical method of determining the deflection. But the method is faulty and contains obvious errors, and the fundamental formula for the velocity of light, upon which the entire method is based, is in direct contradiction to the principle of equivalence, for it shows that the speed of light decreases as it approaches the sun, while the equivalence principle demands that such velocity should increase.
It would thus seem that the calculations by which Eddington finds the deflection of light equal to 1.75 seconds of arc are invalid. The principle of equivalence, if true, shows that the total bending of a ray of light, passing near the sun, is 0.87 seconds of arc, and not the 1.75 seconds, as claimed by the relativists.

Conclusions
  1. The fundamental formulas of relativity dynamics contain an approximation; the r (Schwarzschild) radius of these formulas is not the direct distance between the centres of two particles of matter; it is this distance increased by a minute quantity.
  2. The relativity formulas can be obtained directly from the corresponding Newtonian formulas by the introduction of the relativity approximation.
  3. The relativity motion of the perihelion of an orbit is a mathematical illusion, due entirely to the use of the relativity approximation. [which distorts distances and time]
    The elliptic orbit of a particle of matter is fixed in space (when the interaction of the other planets is omitted).
  4. The supposed confirmation of the Einstein theory by the motion of the perihelion of Mercury depends entirely upon the use of the approximation in the relativity formulas: when the approximation is removed from the formulas, all appearances of confirmation vanish.
  5. Under the generalized theory of relativity, through the principle of equivalence, a ray of light, passing near the sun, will be bent by the same amount as under the corpuscular theory of light. The theoretical bending being thus the same for these two theories, a deflection, observed at an eclipse, cannot be used to prove the truth of the relativity theory as against that of the corpuscular theory of light.
  6. The figure, 1.75 seconds of arc, given by the relativists for this deflection is obtained by approximate and invalid calculations. The relativists own formulas give, as they should under the principle of equivalence, 0.87 seconds, and not 1.75.*
    AMDG
 
Hi GeorgeSword,

Agree. Scriptures are books of faith.
I did check out the Teen Catholic Converts Colony . And left a post…
All we have to do is subtract any truth that was Revealed that has science in it and call it false. 😦

That is a really neat trick - how they could record things and make sure the faith stuff is true but nor worry about anything else. I wonder if they thought of underlining only the true stuff.
 
All we have to do is subtract any truth that was Revealed that has science in it and call it false. 😦
:confused: I don’t think so. What about Divine Revelation that God created the Universe and Adam and Eve? There is lots of science in the universe. Adam and Eve and their descendents have to follow the scientific fact that one needs to take in nourishment in order to live. Besides, Divine Revelation trumps in matters of faith and morals.

Or are you just giving me a hard time.😉
 
:confused: I don’t think so. What about Divine Revelation that God created the Universe and Adam and Eve? There is lots of science in the universe. Adam and Eve and their descendents have to follow the scientific fact that one needs to take in nourishment in order to live. Besides, Divine Revelation trumps in matters of faith and morals.

Or are you just giving me a hard time.😉
You know me. The frown was indicating sarcasm.

I really have a hard time when people claim the Bible is only a book of faith and that everything related to science has to be thrown out. The claim that God is incapable in inspiring the authors to write in a simple way so that the truth can be conveyed across all ages is ludicrous. As if God didn’t know the future and what we would be up to right about now.
 
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