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Mannyfit75
Guest
Basic question.
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Thing
Guest
Does Geocentrism mean the Earth is the center of the Universe or the center of rotation of the Universe?
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Deconi
Guest
Does this mean Sungenis has got you thinking that you need a poll to reassure yourself of your stance?
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DaveBj
Guest
I have been an amateur student of astronomy and cosmology for years, and all the evidence that I have seen and understand has led be to believe in acentrism. In other words, there is no definable center of the universe.
BTW, Deconi, love your sig!
DaveBj
BTW, Deconi, love your sig!
DaveBj
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Sungenis as Dave Armstrong describe is a “nut” who affirms a literal interpretation that the Earth is the center of all things. Base of my discussion with him, he believes in a “modern Geocentrism” which affirms that the earth is the center of the universe.Does this mean Sungenis has got you thinking that you need a poll to reassure yourself of your stance?
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JRKH
Guest
It depends entirely upon your viewpoint. From earth it is pretty obvious that everything rotates around us. We even refer to “Sunrise and sunset” do we not??
Yet from a viewpoint other than earth a different perspective is seen and the planets (smaller bodies) rotate around the sun (larger body).
The mathematics is simpler for the Sun centered solar system.
In the end it does not matter.
Center? Edge? somewhere in between?
God knows where He put us and He put us here for a reason.
He knows where to come and get us when the time comes.
All the rest is just details. and Dust in the Wind.
Peace
James
Yet from a viewpoint other than earth a different perspective is seen and the planets (smaller bodies) rotate around the sun (larger body).
The mathematics is simpler for the Sun centered solar system.
In the end it does not matter.
Center? Edge? somewhere in between?
God knows where He put us and He put us here for a reason.
He knows where to come and get us when the time comes.
All the rest is just details. and Dust in the Wind.
Peace
James
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Scientific evidence today refutes the pseudoscience of geocentrism and young earth. I trust the Church on faith and moral teachings. As an amateur astronomer, I adhere to what most astronomers believe based on the fact, that is the belief of geocentrism.It depends entirely upon your viewpoint. From earth it is pretty obvious that everything rotates around us. We even refer to “Sunrise and sunset” do we not??
Yet from a viewpoint other than earth a different perspective is seen and the planets (smaller bodies) rotate around the sun (larger body).
The mathematics is simpler for the Sun centered solar system.
In the end it does not matter.
Center? Edge? somewhere in between?
God knows where He put us and He put us here for a reason.
He knows where to come and get us when the time comes.
All the rest is just details. and Dust in the Wind.
Peace
James
You are right. It does not matter and yet we have Fundamentalist Catholics like Sungenis and other traditionalist who are just ignore the experts on astronomy.
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kingal86
Guest
I can’t imagine many educated people, regardless of their religious views, believe the Earth is the centre of the Solar System any more–surely?
They would would have to logically have a somewhat paranoid and conspiratoral view for them to believe in geocentrism these days. They may as well doubt anything about the physical universe they hadn’t seen with their own eyes–and trust authority, the media or the empirical method on, like if other countries or cities exist, or atoms, cells or DNA.
I’ve never been to Rome or America or seen the Pope or a satellite. How do I know they’re real? The geography books, encyclopedias, media and NASA could all be lying.
Don’t most of the Vatican and Catholic leadership accept heliocentrism now? I’m sure I read a BBC interview with someone at the Vatican Observatory who accepted the Earth revolves around the sun, and that extraterrestrial life is entirely possible.
Has a Pope ever made a statement on it? I heard the Vatican left the issue of theistic evolution vs. creationism open, allowing devout Catholics to believe either (I think).
They would would have to logically have a somewhat paranoid and conspiratoral view for them to believe in geocentrism these days. They may as well doubt anything about the physical universe they hadn’t seen with their own eyes–and trust authority, the media or the empirical method on, like if other countries or cities exist, or atoms, cells or DNA.
I’ve never been to Rome or America or seen the Pope or a satellite. How do I know they’re real? The geography books, encyclopedias, media and NASA could all be lying.
Don’t most of the Vatican and Catholic leadership accept heliocentrism now? I’m sure I read a BBC interview with someone at the Vatican Observatory who accepted the Earth revolves around the sun, and that extraterrestrial life is entirely possible.
Has a Pope ever made a statement on it? I heard the Vatican left the issue of theistic evolution vs. creationism open, allowing devout Catholics to believe either (I think).
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VociMike
Guest
What I believe is that God’s truth as revealed by his Church and by his Scriptures cannot conflict with his truth as revealed by his Creation. And I believe that the human race is capable of learning objective truths about that Creation. And I believe that scientists are not idiots, nor are they in some vast conspiracy to hide some overwhelming pile of data that points to geocentrism.
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Marc_Anthony
Guest
davidmacd.com/catholic/galileo.htm
No, I don’t believe in geocentrism.
That article is a must read though.
No, I don’t believe in geocentrism.
That article is a must read though.
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Bran_Stark
Guest
‘What are the stars?’ said O’Brien indifferently. ‘They are bits of fire a few kilometres away. We could reach them if we wanted to. Or we could blot them out. The earth is the centre of the universe. The sun and the stars go round it.’
Winston made another convulsive movement. This time he did not say anything. O’Brien continued as though answering a spoken objection:
Really, this question can’t be answered. Unless we can measure the edges of the Universe and chart our exact position in it, there is no way to tell the “center”.
Winston made another convulsive movement. This time he did not say anything. O’Brien continued as though answering a spoken objection:
Code:
‘For certain purposes, of course, that is not true. When we navigate the ocean, or when we predict an eclipse, we often find it convenient to assume that the earth goes round the sun and that the stars are millions upon millions of kilometres away. But what of it? Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you forgotten doublethink?’
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pnewton
Guest
No, I believe it is a distant artifact of a hyper-literal understanding of Scripture that also kept the Earth flat for some (the four corner of the Earth) long after it was understood that the Earth was a sphere, more or less. I see no difference between the two.
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didymus
Guest
You should rephrase that.
The Earth orbits about the Sun every 365.24+ days.
The Earth rotates about its own axis every 24 hrs.
You’re right there is no definable “center of the universe”.
PS – I just voted & saw the results: 17% don’t know? Come on guys, you’re killing me. Think of all the monks copying manuscripts to preserve knowledge, all the universities founded by the Church, all the Catholic scientists, many of them members of religious orders and you don’t know !? :banghead:
The Earth orbits about the Sun every 365.24+ days.
The Earth rotates about its own axis every 24 hrs.
You’re right there is no definable “center of the universe”.
PS – I just voted & saw the results: 17% don’t know? Come on guys, you’re killing me. Think of all the monks copying manuscripts to preserve knowledge, all the universities founded by the Church, all the Catholic scientists, many of them members of religious orders and you don’t know !? :banghead:
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JRKH
Guest
Perhaps “I don’t know” should be rephrased to “I don’t Care”.
You see, what, if anything) is the center of the universe makes no impact upon my faith journey whatsoever.
As far as faith and salvation is concerned, there is a much larger problem than “Geocentism” and that is “Meocentrism”. The belief that the entire universe revolves around “me”. Such beliefs lead to very real salvic issues.
When we accept that the universe, ahtever else it may be, is “Deocentered”, that is, God is the center of the universe, (or at least our universe) everything else will fall into place.
Peace
James
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cassini
Guest
Oh James, you just do not get it do you? 'God knows where he put us and He put us here for a reason.’ Is this just pious rhetoric or do you actually believe in what you write? If ever there was a case for the Church of 1616 and 1633 this is it. Do you believe the Bible is the word of God? Do you believe the Bible is a place of revelation in which God spoke/speaks to us? If then the Bible speaks of the earth as being geocentric, why do you not believe Him/it? The reason He placed us at the centre of the universe is so that we would know by reason that we are special and that there has to be a divinity. Until the Devil ressurected the Pagan heresy of heliocentrism this was the case for most humans. Do you not see it is in the Devil’s interest to remove this reasoning from the human mind.It depends entirely upon your viewpoint. From earth it is pretty obvious that everything rotates around us. We even refer to “Sunrise and sunset” do we not??
Yet from a viewpoint other than earth a different perspective is seen and the planets (smaller bodies) rotate around the sun (larger body).
The mathematics is simpler for the Sun centered solar system.
In the end it does not matter.
Center? Edge? somewhere in between?
God knows where He put us and He put us here for a reason.
He knows where to come and get us when the time comes.
All the rest is just details. and Dust in the Wind.
Peace
James
You begin by denying what is reality for the human race. Yes we do see the sun and stars revolve around us. ‘We even refer to “Sunrise and sunset” do we not?’ you say correctly. Well then why in God’s name do you not accept what we all see and why reject the reality of this? Because the mathematics of herliocentrism is simpler? My God what a pathetic reason for the denial of reality. Is not earth the centre of the world for human beings?
**‘In the end it does not matter.’ ** you say.
What absolute nonsense and ignorance. Of course it matters whether the human race perceives itself as living in a special place that has to be divinely created thus, or whether he lives on a dot of matter spun out of the sun like a meaningless piece of excrement in the universe… Don’t you know ATHEISM was founded on heliocentrism when
**In 1755 Immanuel Kant suggested it all evolved from a ball of rotating gas. By 1796 Pièrre Simon Laplace (1749-1842) had developed this ‘Nebular Theory’ in a book he presented to Napoleon. The Emperor asked him why there was no mention of a Creator in it, to which Laplace replied: ‘Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis.’ Thus earthmoving, paradoxically considered orthodox by Church authorities now, gave atheism a natural philosophy it could use to eliminate God as Creator. **
Does it not matter to you that the Catholic Church once defined and declared that Scripture Revealed a geocentric world and that therefore we have God’s word for it and that its contrary a fixed sun relative to a moving earth was formal heresy? Does it not matter that the Church you aspire to belong to supposedly couldn’t tell its knees from its elbow? . Does it not matter that the Devil’s lie caused popes to unofficially deny the teachings of their predecessors in this case. Does it not matter that the Church’s reputation was tarnished as a result of the fraud that heliocentrism was proven empirically? Does it not matter that ten thousand books ridicule and laugh at the Church of 1616 and 1633? Does it not matter that Galileo is now considered more knowledgeable and Catholic than those ‘NUTTERS’ as mannyfit calls all who abide by the Church’s WISDOM?
According to your post James, none of this matters to you entrenched Copernicans. My how the Devil has fooled so many, even the elect as the same Scriptures said he would…
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JRKH
Guest
My My My —
What a along and intense response from such a small posting…
Far too much to try to respond to in any meaningful way, even if I thought it would do any good.
Christ, my King, tells me that Love is the core of all. It is the fundemental center for ALL of the Law and All of the Prophets (Mt 22:36-40). This Love for God and for my neighbor is the basis upon which I build my life.
Christ, my King, has also told me not to worry or get distracted by details or things that don’t really matter, but to first seek the Kingdom of God and His rightiousness.
I find nothing in This Law of Love or this instruction on living my life that requires my belief, one way or the other, about just How God put together the Universe.
So -
I will let others bounce these ideas around if they, for whatever reason, feel it is important to them. Christ has given me enough to do, in Loving Him and my neighbor, without trying to figure out something that really has no answer that we can fully grasp as humans.
Now - If you can show me, in any meaningful way, how my concern or lack thereof will effect my salvic walk, THEN we might have something to talk about.
But so far as I can tell, the criteria to be used at Judgement as stated in Mt 25:31-46 does not include my having to take a postion on anything other than being Christo-centric.
Peace
James
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Ahimsa
Guest
The only difference between “GEOcentrism” and “EGOcentrism” is the transposition of two letters.
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Stylites
Guest
Albert Einstein posited that motion is relative to the observer. Hence geocentrism is just as valid (and ultimately invalid) as heliocentrism. Perhaps “egocentrism” is closer to Einstein’s theory.
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Stylites
Guest
Maybe the OP lifted the “rotates around the sun” phrase right from the recent article in Scientific American. (Linked)
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JRKH
Guest
A very valid obvervation on Mr Einstein’s part.
I recall a little skit from amny years ago on Seseme Street. The muppet Kermit was trying to help the muppet Grover get from “here” to “there”. Grover did not want to be “here”, he wanted to be “there” yet each time he went “there”, it became “here”. Needless to say poor Grover got highly frustrated (as muppets do). You can imagine how funny it was
I also think about our Catholic Church buildings, how they are generally and traditionally layed out. Consider…
What is the “center” of a Catholic Church building?
…The Eucharist of course
What is the most important container in the building? -
…The Tabernacle containing the Eucharist.
Is the Tabernacle in the center of the Church?
…No - it is a one end, or off to the side or even in a seperate chapel
Does it’s physical location detract from it’s importance as the “Center” of The Church?
…No it does not. It’s physical location does not effect it’s spiritual importance.
So if the physical location of the tabernacle does not effect it’s spiritual importance of what it contains in the eyes of Catholics, why would the physical location of the planet earth effect the spiritual importance of what it contains in the eyes of God?
Peace
James
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