Geocentrism: why doesn't it just die and be done with?

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You may also notice that the first linked source is not from Urban VIII but from the Congregation of the Holy Office during Urban’s reign. It was never signed by the Pope but was approved only in forma communi. That same Roman Congregation, according to Finocchiaro, issued positive permission in 1822 for Catholics publicly to present the earth’s motion as an established fact:

11 September 1822 The Congregation of the Holy Office decides to allow in general the publication of books treating of the earth’s motion in accordance with modern astronomy. . . .

25 September 1822 Pope Pius VII ratifies this decision. . . . (from Finocchiaro, Retrying Galileo, p. 307)

Thus the restriction that was placed on Galileo in specific in 1633, was removed from Catholic scholars in general in 1822 and that decision was ratified by the Pope.(1)

This same principle was repeated by his successor, Pius XII, in Divino Afflante Spiritu 3. As Cassini has said:

The only interpretation of note(2) in the history of the Church that the encyclical could be referring to was the fixed sun/moving earth heresy. (link)

An individual Catholic is free to hold to geocentrism, of course, but the Church does not present that view as a matter of faith and Catholics are free to hold other views as well.
  1. I am not sure if the 1822 decision alllowed publishing of Galileo. Neither if approval “in forma communi” would be insufficient to engage papacy. Also, Pius VII is contested by The Little Church since the Concordat with Napoleon.
  2. Of note or not, on Sceptics’ Annotated Bible you do find people who ask if the Holy Ghost “knew the value of pi”. Because on a certain place it gives the value 3+ rather than more precise ones like 3 and 22/7 or 3.14159…
I also note that Providentissimus Deus deals with writers using words according to what appears to the senses, like not noting everything there is if it does not appear. It does not expressly include the case that what apppears to the senses is the converse of reality (sun appearing to move because earth moves), nor with the case of a miracle worker (Joshua in ch X verse 13) saying his order to the things to change in a matter adapted to lack of knowledge or popular misunderstanding in listeners.

Haydock lets us think that Joshua made an emotional outgush according to his own understanding and God made a miracle according to His. This is not what I believe generally about men working miracles under God. Apart from that, it is possible, but I would not settle for it except on having heliocentrism well proven.
 
Someone put up a link to the following:…
Could you do me a similar favour please?

bernd-leitenberger.de/cassini-instrumente1.shtml

The link above does not seem to include a telescope directed at stars at all into the instruments on Cassini, have I missed something?

Because, from Saturnus, it would have been very easy to refute my idea that the yearly so called parallax of Proxima Centauri is due to its own movement as opposed to movement of earth. But it seems this check up has not at all been done, am I just being wishfully thinking?

Am I dreaming, NASA refusing or just missing a chance to refute Close-Sphere-of-Fixed-Stars Geocentrism once and forever? I am not actually refuted yet?

I mean, if there had been one tree with twenty thousand year rings, that would have been a golden refutation of Young-Earth-Creationism, since there is none such I can still hope Old-Earthism is not proven and thus not true, but for Close-Sphere-of-Fixed-Stars, watching Proxima Centauri from Cassini for one year would correspond very much to such a non-existent Twenty or at least (on presumption of one ring set per half year) Ten Thousand years old tree. This has actually not been done?

Could it be that NASA was afraid it could prove the reverse, that Proxima Centauri does move back and forth each half year even without being watched from earth?
 
Read this one before going on, OK?
hglundahlsblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/trigonometry-principles-astronomic.html

Backup: webcitation.org/5x5DcAEN2

Read it, I hope?

OK, look at last diagram again:



I agree first part is seriously skewed, but that is not the point.

If Heliocentrism is true, Proxima Centauri shows a parallax between Summer and Winter Solstice of 0.76 " because Proxima Centauri is 4 light years away, and the distance Earth makes around Sun in that time makes the star look that way (how good it is exactly four light years and not 3 and a half or 4 and a half, right? - or maybe that is just kidding), BUT, big but: if Geocentrism is true, the angle as such tells nothing about how far the star actually moves, and it does therefore not tell how far it is either. Why four light years? Why not just one? Or a lightmonth, even that should be well beyond the Solar System.

Thus “2M1207” * would not be actually 52.4 (± 1.1) pc = 240 light years or more away, it could equally be one light year, or one lightmonth away, just moving 60 times less (or less than that) between Solstices than “Proxima” Centauri.

Which would make - at a Fixed Stars Sphere c. “one lightmonth” away, Proxima Centauri c. 48 times closer and less in diametre, and “2M1207” c. 2880 times closer and less in diametre. Square that for the much less in surface we see. Cube that for their much lesser volumes.

What a scenario to refute, right?

Well, NASA seems to have missed the chance of doing so by sending a big enough telescope to Saturn. Because, if Heliocentrism is true, since Saturn has an orbit much longer than a year, actually some ninety odd years if I recall correctly, the parallax seen from earth on these two stars cannot be seen from Saturn. If on the other hand Geocentrism is true and - on top of that - the two stars very much closer (Geocentrism allows but does not need this) and actually moving, this would be seen from Saturn each half year. Since the proper movement of a star would not be unseen because it is seen from a moving observer, unless moving both same direction (Saturn moving along with Sun around Zodiak would qualify) AND same amount (which is where Saturn would not qualify, since much beyond Sun).

Am I on to a possible test of determining optically that my favourite theory is wrong?

*Source for chosen example: exoplanet.eu/star.php?st=2M1207

According to this, same site: exoplanet.eu/catalog.php most exoplanets have not been actually seen on photo, only calculated on the presumption that this must be the case, because otherwise the star would “behave” differently. Only 18 systems with a total of 21 planets have been photographed. And if they are only “one lightmonth” or so away, it does not look like big new earths to colonise either, that is just what it seems by the usual theorising on the distance.
 
Can anyone name one experiment that has proven that the earth moves?
 
Can anyone name one experiment that has proven that the earth moves?
Are you talking proof as in a mathematical proof, or proof as in a court room/scientific endeavour, i.e. the overwhelming and convincing evidence in favor of something? If the latter, then yes there are many, many experiments and observations that serve to prove it (some of which I have pointed to above.) If the former, then we are not in the realm of science.

Keep in mind, however, that there are many things that can be established as fact without a formal, mathematical proof.
 
Can anyone name one experiment that has proven that the earth moves?
The recent Japanese earthquake changed the length of the day by about 1.6 microseconds. Unless someone can explain how an earthquake on Earth can affect the speed with which the Andromeda galaxy rotates about the Earth then we have to conclude that the Earth is rotating.

rossum
 
The recent Japanese earthquake changed the length of the day by about 1.6 microseconds. Unless someone can explain how an earthquake on Earth can affect the speed with which the Andromeda galaxy rotates about the Earth then we have to conclude that the Earth is rotating.

rossum
It is most likely the other way around.

Reply to Discover Magazine’s Critique of Geocentrism

R. Sungenis: Mr. Plait doesn’t know his Relativity physics. An earthquake on earth would
not affect the entire universe, and one reason is due to the effect of the Schwarzchild radius
at Saturn’s orbit, that I noted above. Second, geocentrism holds that disturbances within
the universe are the cause of tremors on earth, not vice-versa. In fact, this principle is one
reason that Misner, Thorne and Wheeler, in their landmark 1973 book, Gravitation, can say,
“Mass there governs inertia here” (pp. 543, 546-47, 549). We can hold to such notions
since in geocentrism we don’t have the same problem with “action-at-a-distance” that
Newton had.

What the reader will find is that Special Relativity was invented by Einstein to escape the
direct evidence from the experiments performed from the early to late 1800s that were
showing the Earth was standing still in space. As physicist James Colemen puts it: “…The
easiest explanation was that the earth was fixed in the ether and that everything else in the
universe moved with respect to the earth and the ether….Such an idea was not considered
seriously, since it would mean in effect that our earth occupied the omnipotent position in
the universe, with all the other heavenly bodies paying homage by moving around it.”
(James A. Coleman, Relativity for the Layman, p. 37). Scientific historian Lincoln Barnett
says it best:
“The Michelson-Morley experiment confronted scientists with an embarrassing
alternative. On the one hand they could scrap the ether theory which had explained
so many things about electricity, magnetism, and light. Or if they insisted on
retaining the ether they had to abandon the still more venerable Copernican theory
that the earth is in motion. To many physicists it seemed almost easier to believe
that the earth stood still than that waves – light waves, electromagnetic waves –
could exist without a medium to sustain them. It was a serious dilemma and one
that split scientific thought for a quarter century. Many new hypotheses were
advanced and rejected. The experiment was tried again by Morley and by others,
with the same conclusion; the apparent velocity of the earth through the ether was
zero” (Lincoln Barnett, The Universe and Dr. Einstein, p. 44).
When the last of these experiments were done, Einstein’s biographer admitted: “The
problem which now faced science was considerable. For there seemed to be only three
alternatives. The first was that the Earth was standing still, which meant scuttling the whole
Copernican theory and was unthinkable” (Einstein: The Life and Times, pp. 109-110). In
other words, concluding that the Earth wasn’t moving was a viable solution to the
experimental evidence, but modern science’s devotion to Copernicus and Kepler was simply
not going allow that option to be entertained, much less supported. Instead, Einstein turned
physics on its head and reinvented a whole new physics just to escape a motionless earth.
Ironically, when Special Relativity failed due to its internal contradictions, Einstein had to
invent General Relativity to shore up the façade, and in the process he had to take back the
very two foundations he had discarded in Special Relativity, namely, (a) that nothing can
exceed the speed of light and (b) the existence of ether. In the end, Einstein’s theories were
a mass of contradictions which are covered over by obtuse mathematical equations. You can
read all about it in Galileo Was Wrong.

Third, as regards Mr. Plait’s assertion “Heck, without relativity your GPS wouldn’t work,”
exactly the opposite is true. The GPS system is pre-wired with a correction to accommodate
Relativity theory. This pre-wiring must be built in to each GPS satellite to compensate for
what is known as the “Sagnac effect.” In 1913, Georges Sagnac did an experiment that
falsified the Relativity theory of Einstein (and perhaps this is why Einstein never refers to
the Sagnac experiment in any of his papers). Sagnac showed that there was, indeed,
absolute motion (whereas Einstein said all motion was relative). Turns out that Sagnac was
right, since no GPS will work without the Sagnac correction programmed into the GPS
computers. But all this is kept very quiet. Apparently, even Mr. Plait doesn’t know it. I would
suggest he read the literature of the GPS engineers. We have it documented in Galileo Was
Wrong: The Church Was Right.

 
It is most likely the other way around.
. Always a reason…" 😉
Second, geocentrism holds that disturbances within the universe are the cause of tremors on earth, not vice-versa.
I propose that it’s something of a stretch, to put it mildly, to say it’s “most likely” the other way around. So since you made the statement, buffalo, could you tell us why it’s “most likely” that disturbances in the universe cause earthquakes on earth rather than that earthquakes cause the rotation of the earth to slow?

But the counter-claim itself is flawed. Notice that the slowdown that’s detected using, primarily but not exclusively, VLBI is in the rotation of the earth/entire universe. That strikes against the claim above that it’s only a local disturbance in the vicinity of the solar system that allegedly causes the disturbance on earth. No, the observed phenomenon is that the revolution of earth (or the rotation of the entire universe around the earth) is effected by earthquakes. The author cited basically sidestepped that entirely.

In addition, it would seem that the geocentrist would be faced with some key questions. If the earthquakes are the effect and not the cause of the slowdown in rotation, then how is it that we only detect the slowdown after the earthquakes? It seems fairly clear to me that the neo-geos have their cause and effect backwards. Second, how is it that even man-induced earthquakes cause this slowdown (as I already mentioned above)? This would work to establish the cause and effect relationship strongly in the direction of earthly phenomena causing the rotational slowdown and not vice versa.

Again, I’m definitely struggling with the claim that unpredicted and unpredictable celestial disturbances are “most likely” responsible for a measurable slow-down in the earth’s rotation/universe’s revolution. Could you fill in for us how that is more likely than the predicted and predictable effect that the earth’s own rotation is slowed by earthquakes, both natural and human-induced?
 
In addition, it would seem that the geocentrist would be faced with some key questions. If the earthquakes are the effect and not the cause of the slowdown in rotation, then how is it that we only detect the slowdown after the earthquakes? It seems fairly clear to me that the neo-geos have their cause and effect backwards. Second, how is it that even man-induced earthquakes cause this slowdown (as I already mentioned above)? This would work to establish the cause and effect relationship strongly in the direction of earthly phenomena causing the rotational slowdown and not vice versa.
Also, remember that the revolution of the earth/rotation of the universe around the earth is continuously slowing–then we see these bumps in regular decay due to earthquakes. This is predicted in the mainstream model by tidal drag from the moon, which seems pretty reasonable to me. Do the neo-geos have an explanation, besides the dances of angels or the actions of fairies, as to why the entire universe’s revolution around the earth would be slowing down at pretty much the rate we would expect the earth’s revolution on its axis to be slowing due to lunar tidal drag?
 
. Always a reason…" 😉

I propose that it’s something of a stretch, to put it mildly, to say it’s “most likely” the other way around. So since you made the statement, buffalo, could you tell us why it’s “most likely” that disturbances in the universe cause earthquakes on earth rather than that earthquakes cause the rotation of the earth to slow?

But the counter-claim itself is flawed. Notice that the slowdown that’s detected using, primarily but not exclusively, VLBI is in the rotation of the earth/entire universe. That strikes against the claim above that it’s only a local disturbance in the vicinity of the solar system that allegedly causes the disturbance on earth. No, the observed phenomenon is that the revolution of earth (or the rotation of the entire universe around the earth) is effected by earthquakes. The author cited basically sidestepped that entirely.

In addition, it would seem that the geocentrist would be faced with some key questions. If the earthquakes are the effect and not the cause of the slowdown in rotation, then how is it that we only detect the slowdown after the earthquakes? It seems fairly clear to me that the neo-geos have their cause and effect backwards. Second, how is it that even man-induced earthquakes cause this slowdown (as I already mentioned above)? This would work to establish the cause and effect relationship strongly in the direction of earthly phenomena causing the rotational slowdown and not vice versa.

Again, I’m definitely struggling with the claim that unpredicted and unpredictable celestial disturbances are “most likely” responsible for a measurable slow-down in the earth’s rotation/universe’s revolution. Could you fill in for us how that is more likely than the predicted and predictable effect that the earth’s own rotation is slowed by earthquakes, both natural and human-induced?
“Using VLBI in this manner requires large numbers of time difference measurements from distant sources (such as quasars) observed with a global network of antennas over a period of time.”

Are you sure this isn’t modeled data? Do you have a source that shows the actual readings?
 
Also, remember that the revolution of the earth/rotation of the universe around the earth is continuously slowing–then we see these bumps in regular decay due to earthquakes. This is predicted in the mainstream model by tidal drag from the moon, which seems pretty reasonable to me. Do the neo-geos have an explanation, besides the dances of angels or the actions of fairies, as to why the entire universe’s revolution around the earth would be slowing down at pretty much the rate we would expect the earth’s revolution on its axis to be slowing due to lunar tidal drag?
Decay?
 
How about that “most likely” part, buffalo? Could you explain why unpredicted and unpredictable celestial disturbances are “most likely” responsible for a measurable slow-down in the earth’s rotation/universe’s revolution, rather than the mainstream model’s predicted and predictable effect that the earth’s own rotation is slowed by earthquakes, both natural and human-induced?
 
How about that “most likely” part, buffalo? Could you explain why unpredicted and unpredictable celestial disturbances are “most likely” responsible for a measurable slow-down in the earth’s rotation/universe’s revolution, rather than the mainstream model’s predicted and predictable effect that the earth’s own rotation is slowed by earthquakes, both natural and human-induced?
Did humans create an earthquake? Sources?
 
Did humans create an earthquake? Sources?
Yes: colorado.edu/geophysics/history.html

But I have misread my source, I apologize (the author’s point is still a good one and it’s a worthwhile read). Humans can indeed cause earthquakes, but the source does not make the claim that a slowing of the earth’s rotation on its axis has been measured based on man-made earthquakes and I do not know if that specific measurement has been made. Please permit me to rephrase my question:

Could you explain why unpredicted and unpredictable celestial disturbances are “most likely” responsible for a measurable slow-down in the whole universe’s revolution, rather than the mainstream model’s predicted and predictable effect that the earth’s own rotation is slowed by earthquakes?
 
“Using VLBI in this manner requires large numbers of time difference measurements from distant sources (such as quasars) observed with a global network of antennas over a period of time.”

Are you sure this isn’t modeled data? Do you have a source that shows the actual readings?
Here are the data (please note they include even the raw, unprocessed data on this site):

lupus.gsfc.nasa.gov/dataresults_main.htm

(Hoping this doesn’t all get dismissed by reference to yet another conspiracy theory.)

And here is an interesting study that correlates VLBI measurements and tidal data:

bowie.gsfc.nasa.gov/ggfc/tides/intro.html

As can be seen, both diurnal and semidiurnal variations are present in UT1, and they appear to be quite well represented by the ocean model. There are two ways that the ocean tides can cause such rapid variations. (1) As the tides move water around the globe, the moment of inertia of the earth changes. By conservation of angular momentum, the solid earth changes its rotation rate accordingly. (2) As the tidal currents slow down or speed up, they exchange angular momentum with the solid earth, which is manifested in the rotation rate. Mechanism (2) is slightly more important for rotation rate variations; both mechanisms are about equally important for polar motion variations.

In other words, the data show that changes in the earth’s rotation correlate to lunar tidal patterns, which is both predicted and predictable. It is left to the neo-geocentrist to explain how, on the contrary, the rate of the entire universe’s revolution around the earth wobbles in sync with the moon’s tidal influence, a phenomenon which would be both unpredicted and unpredictable.
 
My question would be, “What mechanism allows a variation in the movement of the universe to trigger such a localized effect?”

I find it suspect that any action twenty six trillion miles away can impact a tiny point off the coast of Japan with such specificity.
 
Yes: colorado.edu/geophysics/history.html

But I have misread my source, I apologize (the author’s point is still a good one and it’s a worthwhile read). Humans can indeed cause earthquakes, but the source does not make the claim that a slowing of the earth’s rotation on its axis has been measured based on man-made earthquakes and I do not know if that specific measurement has been made. Please permit me to rephrase my question:

Could you explain why unpredicted and unpredictable celestial disturbances are “most likely” responsible for a measurable slow-down in the whole universe’s revolution, rather than the mainstream model’s predicted and predictable effect that the earth’s own rotation is slowed by earthquakes?
The rotation of the universe is decaying.
 
Here are the data (please note they include even the raw, unprocessed data on this site):

lupus.gsfc.nasa.gov/dataresults_main.htm

(Hoping this doesn’t all get dismissed by reference to yet another conspiracy theory.)

And here is an interesting study that correlates VLBI measurements and tidal data:

bowie.gsfc.nasa.gov/ggfc/tides/intro.html
As can be seen, both diurnal and semidiurnal variations are present in UT1, and they appear to be quite well represented by the ocean model. There are two ways that the ocean tides can cause such rapid variations. (1) As the tides move water around the globe, the moment of inertia of the earth changes. By conservation of angular momentum, the solid earth changes its rotation rate accordingly. (2) As the tidal currents slow down or speed up, they exchange angular momentum with the solid earth, which is manifested in the rotation rate. Mechanism (2) is slightly more important for rotation rate variations; both mechanisms are about equally important for polar motion variations.
In other words, the data show that changes in the earth’s rotation correlate to lunar tidal patterns, which is both predicted and predictable. It is left to the neo-geocentrist to explain how, on the contrary, the rate of the entire universe’s revolution around the earth wobbles in sync with the moon’s tidal influence, a phenomenon which would be both unpredicted and unpredictable.
What does this mean?

EOP totals DO NOT include the effect of subdaily variations

Time argument: TAI​

Nutation angles are wrt Wahr1980 expansion​

Sorted by sort_eob 2.2 at 2010.06.07-14:15:45​

EOPS file contains the series of the estimates the Earth orientation​

parameters obtained from processing VLBI experiments.​

and the first one is from 2010? Do we have measurements the day before, the day of and the day after?
 
In other words, the data show that changes in the earth’s rotation correlate to lunar tidal patterns, which is both predicted and predictable. It is left to the neo-geocentrist to explain how, on the contrary, the rate of the entire universe’s revolution around the earth wobbles in sync with the moon’s tidal influence, a phenomenon which would be both unpredicted and unpredictable.
Could it be that the moon is affected by the universes rotations and pertubations too?
 
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