Geocentrism?

[transfinitum]

For what faith or moral position is geocentrism needed?

The 1633 papal sentence is quite specific. Galileo’s heliocentric hypothesis is condemned because:

“… *it has been declared and defined to be contrary to the Holy Scripture”
*

The phyical arrangement of the the heavenly bodies and their dynamic relationships are the appropiate subjects of the physical sciences, not theology.

The first part of your sentence is true, the second is false.

As to the first, there exists no scientific basis upon which to exclude geocentrism, if one accepts the theories of Relativity. It becomes a serviceable frame within the context of a cosmology which assumes isotropy and homogeneity (“Copernican” Principle).

If the Copernican Principle is false (and a very rapidly growing number of observations, including a major one just this week reporting the discovery of the largest structure of quasars ever observed, as well as the CMB Axis and the concentric galaxy shells reported by Hirano above, suggest that it is), then of course all scientific evidence- crucially the outcome of the Michelson Morley and Michelson Gale experiments- is consistent with Earth motionless at the center of the cosmos.

What faith or moral truth is dependent on this arrangement and relationship?

Asked and answered: The Holy Office states that Galileo is condemned on the basis of Sacred Scripture as unanimously interpreted by the Fathers.

Trent defines such a consensus as irreformable.

The supreme irony is that the science is drastically tipping toward the ancient conception of the Earth in a privileged, non-random position with respect to the largest scale structures of the cosmos.

 

[grannymh]

Catholics should not be ashamed of going against the grain in asserting the truth of geocentrism. Unfortunately, it is unknown to many that geocentrism is long held Catholic Doctrine! Another excellent site worth visiting is that of Catholic Apologist John Salza: scripturecatholic.com/geocentrism.html

When I landed on CAF, there was a long battle over the local trial of Galileo. Miles of documents were posted. Not one post was a formal, properly defined, duly declared Catholic Doctrine devoted to the physical/material domain of science. What were posted were statements by Papal commissions, records of proceedings, letters, and so on. None of these came from an official Ecumenical Church Council which had the specific power, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to properly define and duly declare Divine Revelation.

A local trial of one person does not a doctrine make.

Common sense says that Catholic Church teachings are in the realm of faith and morals which does not include how a planet exists. Common sense says that everyone from the Church Fathers to the Pope can express opinions and speculations about how a planet exists. But those words do not automatically become a Catholic Doctrine. Catholic Doctrines are meant to guide us to heaven. They are not meant to win a Nobel Prize in science.

 

[grannymh]

Asked and answered: The Holy Office states that Galileo is condemned on the basis of Sacred Scripture as unanimously interpreted by the Fathers.

May I gently point out that what is considered as unanimously interpreted by the Early Church Fathers is only in the realm of faith and morals. It is Genesis 1: 1 which became a Catholic doctrine not movements of celestial bodies.

Furthermore, a “consensus” of the Church Fathers is not enough to become in itself a Catholic Doctrine. That is like the tail wagging the dog. The way the visible Catholic Church operates on earth is that when a fuller description of a Catholic truth is needed, it is discussed, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, at a major Ecumenical Church Council. At the time of Galileo, including the centuries before him, it was the province of Church Councils to formally and properly define a Catholic Doctrine and to duly proclaim it to the universal Church.

In addition to the actual gathering of Church leaders from around the world, there was in-depth preparation. This meant months or years of studying every written word of Holy Scripture and the Early Church Fathers, previous Councils, Saints, etc., etc., Plus there was the essential preparation of prayer.

A Papal Commission or a Holy Office does not have the same authority as an Ecumenical Church Council when it comes to infallible Catholic doctrines.

 

[Michael_Francis]

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