Geological evidence for the flood?

  • Thread starter Thread starter aragonjohn1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

aragonjohn1

Guest
Like quick splitting of continents, dinosaurs with man, etc…
 
aragonjohn1 said:
Like quick splitting of continents, dinosaurs with man, etc…
Click to expand...
No, Catholicism does not believe the world is 6000 years old, and it does not claim that man was created as is, indeed Bl. John Paul II basically affirmed evolution.
 
John Paul II did not speak “ex cathedra”, therefore that was just his personal opinion, as if he was saying “it will rain tomorrow” because that’s what he heard the meteorologist say on TV. No one should conclude he is infallible as a weatherman or as an archeologist.

The Church has no DOGMA concerning scientific events that took place at the time of creation. The Church teaches that God created the Universe and all living creatures including man, but it doesn’t tell us in scientific terms as to “how” or “how long” it took God to create everything. The Bible mentions a six days Creation in Genesis 1, but the Bible also says that a thousand years are like one day to God (Psalm 90).

I think that the Church doesn’t want to go through the sequel “The Galileo Affair Part II”, specially in the secular world we live in today. Just stating that you don’t agree with certain aspects of the stream of thought of the science community is exposing yourself to ridicule, if not to worse attacks. Imagine the headlines in all the newspapers and magazines around the world: “The Church ACTUALLY believes it rained for 40 days and 40 nights and that all the high mountains under the heavens (the Himalayas, the Alps, the Andes, the Rocky Mountains) were submerged!”

We Catholics of the 21st Century (as opposed to Catholics of centuries past) do not take a literal understanding of many things in the Bible. But as a Catholic one can believe one way or the other. We are not told “if you don’t believe the World is xxx years old you are a heretic, or if you don’t believe / if you believe in evolution you are a heretic”. We have to believe that God created the Universe and man, we should not believe that the World created itself by chance and that life appeared out of nowhere.

In his book “The Bible as History”, Werner Keller has a chapter dedicated to the Flood in which, as I remember (I read the book many years ago), he presents evidence of the universal Flood when analyzing the strata in different parts of the world. I read the Spanish version of this book, it was published first in Germany in 1955 and the original title was: “Und die Bibel hat Doch Recht (And the Bible was right)”. In the edition offered at the link provided it says: “now thoroughly updated with the latest scientific and archaeological breakthroughs in biblical investigation.” Read the reviews of the book, there are as usual pros and cons. As for me, this is a book I recommend as a must reading if you are interested in the historical accuracy of the Bible.

I have also read non Catholic Christians on this subject and they say that the Flood is the event that killed all the dinosaurs. They also offer scientific evidence of the Flood and according to their explanations, the Flood is the event that changed our world more so than any other event as it affected fossils, rock strata, extinction of species, the geography, etc. You can check this one online.

The Flood is one of the great mysteries of the Old Testament. Even Jesus talks about it in the New Testament:

“In those days before the Flood, people were eating and drinking, and marrying, until the day when Noah went into the ark. Yet they did not know what would happen until the flood came and swept them away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.” Matthew 24:38-39

Has the modern World make unbelievers of us unless we have evidence of all the things the Bible says? Do we really need geological evidence to believe Noah’s account of the Bible? Even if a geologist tells you he has evidence of the Flood, there will be 10 times 10 more scientists saying that he is wrong, the he is misreading the evidence, that he is a creationist, etc. Regardless of the strength of the “evidence” presented, in the end it’s up to you to believe or not in the Flood, because even priests will tell you Noah’s story is just a parable.
 
See my post in a similar thread that Bob Ballard- who found the Titanic wreck found evidence of a huge flood in the Baltic and Caspian seas.
 
We were not put on this planet to study for a history test. -svid2
 
Prieldedi said:
John Paul II did not speak “ex cathedra”, therefore that was just his personal opinion, as if he was saying “it will rain tomorrow” because that’s what he heard the meteorologist say on TV. No one should conclude he is infallible as a weatherman or as an archeologist.

The Church has no DOGMA concerning scientific events that took place at the time of creation. The Church teaches that God created the Universe and all living creatures including man, but it doesn’t tell us in scientific terms as to “how” or “how long” it took God to create everything. The Bible mentions a six days Creation in Genesis 1, but the Bible also says that a thousand years are like one day to God (Psalm 90).

I think that the Church doesn’t want to go through the sequel “The Galileo Affair Part II”, specially in the secular world we live in today. Just stating that you don’t agree with certain aspects of the stream of thought of the science community is exposing yourself to ridicule, if not to worse attacks. Imagine the headlines in all the newspapers and magazines around the world: “The Church ACTUALLY believes it rained for 40 days and 40 nights and that all the high mountains under the heavens (the Himalayas, the Alps, the Andes, the Rocky Mountains) were submerged!”

We Catholics of the 21st Century (as opposed to Catholics of centuries past) do not take a literal understanding of many things in the Bible. But as a Catholic one can believe one way or the other. We are not told “if you don’t believe the World is xxx years old you are a heretic, or if you don’t believe / if you believe in evolution you are a heretic”. We have to believe that God created the Universe and man, we should not believe that the World created itself by chance and that life appeared out of nowhere.

In his book “The Bible as History”, Werner Keller has a chapter dedicated to the Flood in which, as I remember (I read the book many years ago), he presents evidence of the universal Flood when analyzing the strata in different parts of the world. I read the Spanish version of this book, it was published first in Germany in 1955 and the original title was: “Und die Bibel hat Doch Recht (And the Bible was right)”. In the edition offered at the link provided it says: “now thoroughly updated with the latest scientific and archaeological breakthroughs in biblical investigation.” Read the reviews of the book, there are as usual pros and cons. As for me, this is a book I recommend as a must reading if you are interested in the historical accuracy of the Bible.

I have also read non Catholic Christians on this subject and they say that the Flood is the event that killed all the dinosaurs. They also offer scientific evidence of the Flood and according to their explanations, the Flood is the event that changed our world more so than any other event as it affected fossils, rock strata, extinction of species, the geography, etc. You can check this one online.

The Flood is one of the great mysteries of the Old Testament. Even Jesus talks about it in the New Testament:

“In those days before the Flood, people were eating and drinking, and marrying, until the day when Noah went into the ark. Yet they did not know what would happen until the flood came and swept them away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.” Matthew 24:38-39

Has the modern World make unbelievers of us unless we have evidence of all the things the Bible says? Do we really need geological evidence to believe Noah’s account of the Bible? Even if a geologist tells you he has evidence of the Flood, there will be 10 times 10 more scientists saying that he is wrong, the he is misreading the evidence, that he is a creationist, etc. Regardless of the strength of the “evidence” presented, in the end it’s up to you to believe or not in the Flood, because even priests will tell you Noah’s story is just a parable.
Click to expand...
Thank you that was very helpful

Shalom
God bless
 
There have been plenty of big events (most prominently, the Thera volcanic explosion and tsunami, which pretty much put an end to Minoan, Homeric Greek, and tons of other early civilizations) which wreaked havoc in the Mediterranean and Middle Eastern areas. There was a huge flood in Paleolithic times when the ocean broke through into the Mediterranean valley and turned it into the Mediterranean Sea. There’ve been a lot of big deal events like that. But if you’re looking for flooding which covered the entire globe, as opposed to “the whole world my people knew about”, ie, Mesopotamia and/or the Mediterranean, you’re not going to see that.

I can’t remember the name of it, but I’ve read an excellent UK novel from the Sixties which was set before, during, and after the Thera event. It focused on a Phoenician family and the invention of the Phoenician alphabet, but it also included a great look at the utter terror of seeing most of the world you knew scoured away by a tsunami.

But the really long post appears to be about the meteorite explosion event with all the iridium, and about other kinds of geological and natural events which happened before humanity ever happened along.
 
Dakota_Roberts said:
No, Catholicism does not believe the world is 6000 years old, and it does not claim that man was created as is, indeed Bl. John Paul II basically affirmed evolution.
Click to expand...
I don’t have Bl. John Paul II’s comments. As I recall he said that “Evolution is not just a theory.” Many jumped on that to mean that he was saying it is more than a theory. However, others pointed out that he was saying that it is not just one theory, it has several variants. Some of these are acceptable in Church teaching; some, particularly those that deny God had a role in it, are not.

Note for example Genesis 1:11-12
11 And God said, “Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Click to expand...
This could indicate that God had the earth evolve the various vegetation rather that creating each variety individually. How He did
 
aragonjohn1 said:
Like quick splitting of continents, dinosaurs with man, etc…
Click to expand...
There are two interesting flood mechanisms in the arcane literature. One could argue that there is evidence of each.

(1) The Pole Shifters have the less interesting argument. They argue that the Earth in space is like a slowly-spinning gyroscrope on perfect “bearings.” They argue that the Earth is much more prone to global wobble than scientists currently imagine. They say that every so often, global warming for this reason or that reason causes snowfall to increase at the poles, greatly increasing imbalances overcoming angular momentum, causing wobble. Wobble causes centrifugal force to “grab” the poles, causing the Earth to turn over.

This causes the oceans, traveling at about 1000 mph at the equator, to jump up onto the continents, flooding them.

Currently, the snowpack onb the side of the South Pole has increased enormously in response to global warming, while the Ross and Rhone Ice Shelves are collapsing.

I think that I remember reading that this is causing an imbalance of weight distribution at the South Pole of something like 1 quadrillion tons.

Instead of increasing, Chandler Wobble, as it is called, has been decreasing. This may be because there was a pre-exiosting net IMbalance in the Earth which is currently being addressed by the increasiung snow-pack, ironically AGAINST the imbalnce.

(2) Immanuel Velikovsky had the coolest idea of all. He says that Venus is really a former comet which used to have an extremely elliptical orbit which passed close to the Earth every 1,500 years or so. He argues that in a recent passage, Venus actually got caught in orbit around the Earth temporarily, dragging a miles-high tide around the Earth as the Earth rotated beneath the tide. This would have appeared to people on Earth as an enormous flood.

Ancient books from all around the world seem to corroborate his theory a little bit.
 
The recording of the mythic story of the Flood in Genesis…is a sacred myth…it may be a story handed down from generation to generation taking on mythic puportions…the story of a localized flooding which caused catastropy in the area…but taught a deeper meaning within the myth.
 
None. There are indicators of various floods throughout the world, but no world-wide flood. Necessary for that would be a world-wide single geological layer of sedimentary rock made largely from silt, peloids, and ooids. It would have a ripple pattern in shallow, flat areas, and on top of it in nearly every place that is now above ground would be a layer of shale. In these layers would be piles and piles of every kind of animal that lived, all over the world.

Nothing in the geologic column comes anywhere close to resembling this.
 
Uzziah1 said:
There are two interesting flood mechanisms in the arcane literature. One could argue that there is evidence of each.

(1) The Pole Shifters have the less interesting argument. They argue that the Earth in space is like a slowly-spinning gyroscrope on perfect “bearings.” They argue that the Earth is much more prone to global wobble than scientists currently imagine. They say that every so often, global warming for this reason or that reason causes snowfall to increase at the poles, greatly increasing imbalances overcoming angular momentum, causing wobble. Wobble causes centrifugal force to “grab” the poles, causing the Earth to turn over.

This causes the oceans, traveling at about 1000 mph at the equator, to jump up onto the continents, flooding them.
Click to expand...
Breaking about a dozen laws of physics in the process?
(2) Immanuel Velikovsky had the coolest idea of all. He says that Venus is really a former comet which used to have an extremely elliptical orbit which passed close to the Earth every 1,500 years or so. He argues that in a recent passage, Venus actually got caught in orbit around the Earth temporarily, dragging a miles-high tide around the Earth as the Earth rotated beneath the tide. This would have appeared to people on Earth as an enormous flood.
Click to expand...
Once again, breaking about a dozen laws of physics in the process.
 
As I recall there is evidence that the Arctic region was tropical at one time. I think frozen mammoths have been found with buttercups in their mouths. This indicates a very rapid freezing.

I think this was used to support a theory that the north pole was in the area of Hawaii at that time.

I read this far too long ago to remember the details or the source.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
As I recall there is evidence that the Arctic region was tropical at one time. I think frozen mammoths have been found with buttercups in their mouths. This indicates a very rapid freezing.
Click to expand...
I was always curious as to why people think this indicates a rapid freezing? Why could the mammoth not have been too cold and in the process of freezing to death while trying to eat? All it indicates is that there was an abnormally cold day that the mammoth wasn’t tough enough to survive.
I think this was used to support a theory that the north pole was in the area of Hawaii at that time.
Click to expand...
Plate tectonics. Continental drift was first proposed by Alfred Wegener, based on the presence of tropical plants at the South Pole, fossil patterns, glacier trails, and other things that crossed continents, as well as a few other reasons. He was initially ridiculed because no one could come up with a mechanism for the movement, though now we have.

And due to the magnetic alignment of iron ore in various rocks, we can trace a path of movement for nearly all of the tectonic plates, as well as the shift of the magnetic poles of the earth. None of this really lends any sort of support to a global flood though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top