Geological evidence for the flood?

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Farsight001 said:
I was always curious as to why people think this indicates a rapid freezing? Why could the mammoth not have been too cold and in the process of freezing to death while trying to eat? All it indicates is that there was an abnormally cold day that the mammoth wasn’t tough enough to survive.
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Note that a mammoth is a very big animal with a lot of body heat. I haven’t followed the details, but it took a very cold day to freeze one all the way through before the interior started to decay.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Note that a mammoth is a very big animal with a lot of body heat. I haven’t followed the details, but it took a very cold day to freeze one all the way through before the interior started to decay.
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Not really. The outside of the animal freezes first, often keeping it upright. The mammoth would lose organ function even when the internal temperature is still 70 degrees or so, and it would die, and once it dies, it produces no more body heat. And since it is sealed all along the outside, no grubs or bacteria can get into it to cause decay. Decay would happen, but at a greatly decelerated rate, which certainly wouldn’t be rampant even after a week.

It’s also important to note that no real mechanism to flash-freeze something the size of a mammoth exists. Even dunking it in a swimming pool of liquid oxygen would just create the igloo-effect and keep the insides of such a large creature warm for hours.
 
aragonjohn1 said:
Like quick splitting of continents, dinosaurs with man, etc…
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I personally do believe in the flood. Finding seashells in the middle of the desert and fossils of whales… I think that might help in you believing in the flood. Other than that I don’t think that the Bible lies. Peace and good for all.😉
 
thetruth0flife said:
I personally do believe in the flood. Finding seashells in the middle of the desert and fossils of whales… I think that might help in you believing in the flood. Other than that I don’t think that the Bible lies. Peace and good for all.😉
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If it was a flood, you wouldn’t find sea shells there in geographically low-lying regions.

And no one said anything about the bible lying.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Note that a mammoth is a very big animal with a lot of body heat. I haven’t followed the details, but it took a very cold day to freeze one all the way through before the interior started to decay.
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Maybe it died of a heart attack. Those buttercups clog your arteries you know.
 
Dakota_Roberts said:
No, Catholicism does not believe the world is 6000 years old, and it does not claim that man was created as is, indeed Bl. John Paul II basically affirmed evolution.
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To answer the question: yes.

earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung/scientific_evidence_for_a_worldwide_flood.htm

A few sentences does not create a full picture. Individual Catholics are free to believe the following:

"The Time Question

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

Source: Catholic Answers Library
“The pope (John Paul) had his reasons for saying this,” Benedict said. “But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory.”

Peace,
Ed
 
Publisher said:
The recording of the mythic story of the Flood in Genesis…is a sacred myth…it may be a story handed down from generation to generation taking on mythic puportions…the story of a localized flooding which caused catastropy in the area…but taught a deeper meaning within the myth.
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There is a disturbing tendency here to deny God the ability to affect natural events directly. Did Jesus actually raise the dead, cleanse the lepers and give sight to the blind? We are told He commanded the wind and the waves to be still, and it happened.

“Genesis does not contain purified myths.” Pontifical Biblical Commission, 1909

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
To answer the question: yes.

earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung/scientific_evidence_for_a_worldwide_flood.htm

A few sentences does not create a full picture. Individual Catholics are free to believe the following:

"The Time Question

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

Source: Catholic Answers Library
“The pope (John Paul) had his reasons for saying this,” Benedict said. “But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory.”

Peace,
Ed
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Great link!!! Thanks

Shalom
God bless
 
Dakota_Roberts said:
No, Catholicism does not believe the world is 6000 years old, and it does not claim that man was created as is, indeed Bl. John Paul II basically affirmed evolution.
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That is incorrect and off topic, but since you brought it up.

"The Time Question

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

From the Catholic Answers Library

John Paul II did no such thing. Read some Pope Benedict:

usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-04-12-pope-evolution_N.htm

Peace,
Ed
 
Prieldedi said:
John Paul II did not speak “ex cathedra”, therefore that was just his personal opinion, as if he was saying “it will rain tomorrow” because that’s what he heard the meteorologist say on TV. No one should conclude he is infallible as a weatherman or as an archeologist.

The Church has no DOGMA concerning scientific events that took place at the time of creation. The Church teaches that God created the Universe and all living creatures including man, but it doesn’t tell us in scientific terms as to “how” or “how long” it took God to create everything. The Bible mentions a six days Creation in Genesis 1, but the Bible also says that a thousand years are like one day to God (Psalm 90).

I think that the Church doesn’t want to go through the sequel “The Galileo Affair Part II”, specially in the secular world we live in today. Just stating that you don’t agree with certain aspects of the stream of thought of the science community is exposing yourself to ridicule, if not to worse attacks. Imagine the headlines in all the newspapers and magazines around the world: “The Church ACTUALLY believes it rained for 40 days and 40 nights and that all the high mountains under the heavens (the Himalayas, the Alps, the Andes, the Rocky Mountains) were submerged!”

We Catholics of the 21st Century (as opposed to Catholics of centuries past) do not take a literal understanding of many things in the Bible. But as a Catholic one can believe one way or the other. We are not told “if you don’t believe the World is xxx years old you are a heretic, or if you don’t believe / if you believe in evolution you are a heretic”. We have to believe that God created the Universe and man, we should not believe that the World created itself by chance and that life appeared out of nowhere.

In his book “The Bible as History”, Werner Keller has a chapter dedicated to the Flood in which, as I remember (I read the book many years ago), he presents evidence of the universal Flood when analyzing the strata in different parts of the world. I read the Spanish version of this book, it was published first in Germany in 1955 and the original title was: “Und die Bibel hat Doch Recht (And the Bible was right)”. In the edition offered at the link provided it says: “now thoroughly updated with the latest scientific and archaeological breakthroughs in biblical investigation.” Read the reviews of the book, there are as usual pros and cons. As for me, this is a book I recommend as a must reading if you are interested in the historical accuracy of the Bible.

I have also read non Catholic Christians on this subject and they say that the Flood is the event that killed all the dinosaurs. They also offer scientific evidence of the Flood and according to their explanations, the Flood is the event that changed our world more so than any other event as it affected fossils, rock strata, extinction of species, the geography, etc. You can check this one online.

The Flood is one of the great mysteries of the Old Testament. Even Jesus talks about it in the New Testament:

“In those days before the Flood, people were eating and drinking, and marrying, until the day when Noah went into the ark. Yet they did not know what would happen until the flood came and swept them away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.” Matthew 24:38-39

Has the modern World make unbelievers of us unless we have evidence of all the things the Bible says? Do we really need geological evidence to believe Noah’s account of the Bible? Even if a geologist tells you he has evidence of the Flood, there will be 10 times 10 more scientists saying that he is wrong, the he is misreading the evidence, that he is a creationist, etc. Regardless of the strength of the “evidence” presented, in the end it’s up to you to believe or not in the Flood, because even priests will tell you Noah’s story is just a parable.
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In my religion class in Catholic school in the 1960s, the flood was presented as a global event. There is little that is modern about the modern world. A power shortage lasting a few days and that’s it.

The only thing “modern” about the present is the sexual degeneration that has occurred - carefully nurtured over a 40 year period.

Peace,
Ed
 
Here’s some propaganda from the creationistas. Me likey. Me likey lawyer Lyell and…What was Darwin? A theology-school-trained naturalist? Anyway, when Lyell & Darwin are flamed, it’s fun and here’s the link to trees jamming through strata that was supposedly laid down like annual tree rings, one slow season after another. So there is no tree through the shale and sandstone. Un-be the tree. And Venus did go haywire, which is why Satan was compared to that wayward planet; and straightened up, which is why Jesus was compared to trusty Venus, the bright morning star. So accurate was Velikovsky’s prediction of a hot Venus in the midst of retro-celestial mechanics positing a new vacation spot that he was censored. By scholastics…Heil, scholastics. Whew. Gotta take a break and get a fresh-squeezed lemonade at Chick-fil-A.

icr.org/articles/view/445/270/
 
nordskoven said:
Here’s some propaganda from the creationistas. Me likey. Me likey lawyer Lyell and…What was Darwin? A theology-school-trained naturalist? Anyway, when Lyell & Darwin are flamed, it’s fun and here’s the link to trees jamming through strata that was supposedly laid down like annual tree rings, one slow season after another. So there is no tree through the shale and sandstone. Un-be the tree. And Venus did go haywire, which is why Satan was compared to that wayward planet; and straightened up, which is why Jesus was compared to trusty Venus, the bright morning star. So accurate was Velikovsky’s prediction of a hot Venus in the midst of retro-celestial mechanics positing a new vacation spot that he was censored. By scholastics…Heil, scholastics. Whew. Gotta take a break and get a fresh-squeezed lemonade at Chick-fil-A.

icr.org/articles/view/445/270/
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Uh…what?!
 
Joe_Kelley said:
I don’t have Bl. John Paul II’s comments. As I recall he said that “Evolution is not just a theory.” Many jumped on that to mean that he was saying it is more than a theory. However, others pointed out that he was saying that it is not just one theory, it has several variants. Some of these are acceptable in Church teaching; some, particularly those that deny God had a role in it, are not.

Note for example Genesis 1:11-12 This could indicate that God had the earth evolve the various vegetation rather that creating each variety individually. How He did
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Here is what Pope John Paul II actually said:

“Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis.”

Complete document here: ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp961022.htm

And yes, he did refer to it in the plural as you read through the document.

Peace,
Ed
 
Publisher said:
The recording of the mythic story of the Flood in Genesis…is a sacred myth…it may be a story handed down from generation to generation taking on mythic puportions…the story of a localized flooding which caused catastropy in the area…but taught a deeper meaning within the myth.
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This isn’t credible. Sacred Scripture was inspired directly by God. And it records things God actually did.

Peace,
Ed
 
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