Georgia Cops Impound Anti-Abortion Billboard Truck, Jail Driver

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But we are not talking about other tactics-we are talking about the proven tactic of letting people see what abortion nis really all about.

Agreed-but their is nothing immoral about graphic abortion pictures.
Even a good thing, used wrongly can turn out to be immoral. If I use my cane to help me stand and picket outside a clinic that’s a good thing. If I use my can to inflict harm on someone entering the clinic, that’s definitely not a good thing. Just so with the morality of graphic abortion pics, it depends on how, when and for whom they are used.
 
Even a good thing, used wrongly can turn out to be immoral. If I use my cane to help me stand and picket outside a clinic that’s a good thing. If I use my can to inflict harm on someone entering the clinic, that’s definitely not a good thing. Just so with the morality of graphic abortion pics, it depends on how, when and for whom they are used.
Which should be determined by those most experienced in their use
 
Even a good thing, used wrongly can turn out to be immoral. If I use my cane to help me stand and picket outside a clinic that’s a good thing. If I use my can to inflict harm on someone entering the clinic, that’s definitely not a good thing. Just so with the morality of graphic abortion pics, it depends on how, when and for whom they are used.
nicely said.
 
Which should be determined by those most experienced in their use
That’s like saying I could use my cane for whichever purpose (standing to picket or striking clinic workers) my experience determines would be most effective in achieving my end (stopping abortion).
 
That’s like saying I could use my cane for whichever purpose (standing to picket or striking clinic workers) my experience determines would be most effective in achieving my end (stopping abortion).
Except there is no violence involved in shopwing the end result of abortion. How much sidewalk counseling experience do you have?
 
Well then the next time you picket an abortion clinic dont use graphic images.

I leave it to the sidewalk counselors to know what works best in their particular circumstances. As far as the trucks go we have seen specific testimony from women stating those trucks kept them from having an abortion.
I am not talking about sidewalk counselors, who one would assume are actually involved in situations around clinics or folks who are picketing outside actual abortion clinics. That would fall under the “potentially appropriate settings” in my book. I still don’t like them, but can see an argument for their use in those sorts of settings.

Someone driving a truck around a city, flying a plane over a public beach towing a banner or standing on a Saturday afternoon with a photograph that is several feet square beside the driveway to a busy toystore, a Babies R US and a large mall with lots of specifically child-oriented stores and popular sites for children’s birthday parties at a spot where traffic is often at a standstill miles from the nearest possible abortion provider is not acting in the capacity of sidewalk counselor or picketing an abortion clinic. Their sole purpose is to show these pictures to people who are not anywhere near an abortion clinic and who they have no reason to believe are imminently planning to procure an abortion. People that they know full well are highly likely to have young children with them in the car. I am talking about the folks who plastered my car with these images in a grocery store parking lot miles from any abortion provider even though the booster carseat was clearly visible and they could see that there was a very high probability that I had a young child with me.

I have seen plenty of testimony on many of these threads that specifically state that they know people (including children) who have been harmed by the indiscriminate use of these photos. Why is their testimony any less believable or important for consideration?

I was not aware that the Catholic Church taught that the morality of an action was something that was up to an individual to decide for himself. Do you also leave it up to the individual to decide whether every possible other means of protest is okay because they think it will “work best”?
 
Which should be determined by those most experienced in their use
No. It should not. Are you equally ready to allow those “most experienced” in the use of other things that folks consider inappropriate for distribution or showing to children in a public place to decide for everyone else what is allowable?

It should be determined by the laws and by the societal standards of our culture as regards the acceptable and appropriate behavior of adults toward children. There is no other area of our culture in which it is considered appropriate to show graphic images of violence or of its’ aftermath in places where it is known that young children will have access to them without their parents’ permission or in which parents can have no reasonable expectation of preventing such exposure.
 
I have seen plenty of testimony on many of these threads that specifically state that they know people (including children) who have been harmed by the indiscriminate use of these photos. Why is their testimony any less believable or important for consideration?

I was not aware that the Catholic Church taught that the morality of an action was something that was up to an individual to decide for himself. Do you also leave it up to the individual to decide whether every possible other means of protest is okay because they think it will “work best”?
The catholic Church has no stand on the appropriatness of using graphic images.Thus it is up to us to determine the morality of using these images.
 
…Thus it is up to us…
Exactly, thank you for using the collective term “us” rather than “me”. Now if we could just define “us”. Is it the majority, the most vocal, the most ‘experienced’…? Who determines experience anyway and what does, is it quality or quantity?

For all you know, the arresting policeman could be more experienced in the matter than the truck driver. Would that make the arrest okay in your book?

Methinks the Magesterium should relieve our confusion on the matter…or have they already? Anyone?
 
For all you know, the arresting policeman could be more experienced in the matter than the truck driver. Would that make the arrest okay in your book?
He should advise the man that the material was vulgar and offensive, that this was against the law and that he would have to take action if he didn’t remove the the signs. Of course, according to the article, this happened. I do not know what more the policeman could have done.
 
The catholic Church has no stand on the appropriatness of using graphic images.Thus it is up to us to determine the morality of using these images.
Then there is no inherent reason to decide that because Fr. Pavone thinks it is a good idea that everyone else should think so as well? And no inherent reason to declare that those who oppose the use of these images in places accessible to children are any less moral or any less dedicated to ending abortion than those that would plaster them on every surface? That your opinion on the morality of it carries exactly the same weight as any other person’s?

Personally, I think the Church’s stance on who gets to determine what children are exposed to, whether others get to choose to usurp that determination in pursuit of their own ends, however worthy, and the role of the Church in supporting the decisions made by the parents about such matters is pretty clearly laid out in Pope John Paul’s “Familiaris Consortio”.

Section 36 “…The right and duty of parents to give education is essential, since it is connected with the transmission of human life; it is original and primary with regard to the educational role of others, on account of the uniqueness of the loving relationship between parents and children; and it is irreplaceable and inalienable, and therefore incapable of being entirely delegated to others or usurped by others.”

Section 40: “The right of parents to choose an education in conformity with their religious faith must be absolutely guaranteed. The State and the Church have the obligation to give families all possible aid to enable them to perform their educational role properly. Therefore both the Church and the State must create and foster the institutions and activities that families justly demand, and the aid must be in proportion to the families’ needs. However, those in society who are in charge of schools must never forget that the parents have been appointed by God Himself as the first and principal educators of their children and that their right is completely inalienable.”

Section 45 “Just as the intimate connection between the family and society demands that the family be open to and participate in society and its development, so also it requires that society should never fail in its fundamental task of respecting and fostering the family.”

Section 46:
For this reason, the Church openly and strongly defends the rights of the family against the intolerable usurpations of society and the State. In particular, the Synod Fathers mentioned the following rights of the family:

the right to exercise its responsibility regarding the transmission of life and to educate children; family life;
the right to bring up children in accordance with the family’s own traditions and religious and cultural values, with the necessary instruments, means and institutions;

Section 76:
Furthermore, because the means of social communication, like the school and the environment, often have a notable influence on the formation of children, parents as recipients must actively ensure the moderate, critical, watchful and prudent use of the media, by discovering what effect they have on their children and by controlling the use of the media in such a way as to "train the conscience of their children to express calm and objective judgments, which will then guide them in the choice or rejection of programs available …
I myself, on a similar occasion, pointed out that families “to a considerable extent need to be able to count on the good will, integrity and sense of responsibility of the media professionals- publishers writers, producers, directors, playwrights, newsmen, commentators and actors.”(177) It is therefore also the duty of the Church to continue to devote every care to these categories, at the same time encouraging and supporting Catholics who feel the call and have the necessary talents, to take up this sensitive type of work.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_19811122_familiaris-consortio_en.html
 
Even a good thing, used wrongly can turn out to be immoral. If I use my cane to help me stand and picket outside a clinic that’s a good thing. If I use my can to inflict harm on someone entering the clinic, that’s definitely not a good thing. Just so with the morality of graphic abortion pics, it depends on how, when and for whom they are used.
I agree! Pictures certainly have their place, but their place is NOT in public places for young children to see
 
As well as there was no need for the harrassment with the images on the truck. 😉
Apparently there was.
It is wrong how?
That has already been explained.
Your opinion.
Well of course it my opinion. But it is also other peoples opinion and apparently it is valid.
No, just defending the rights of those who wish to use images.
Rights?

Im sorry but nothing gives you the right to expose people to graphic images without their conscent, or expose them to children without the parents conscent.

You dont have the right to make someone view something that they choose not to view, you are taking away their right to choice.
Others want to use censorship, therefore think their rights are more important.
Actually its more of a matter that their rights are being ignored, not really the sort of thing you want to do when claiming the moral high ground.

Crying censorship is a non-argument, because it appears that censorship is necessary at times because some cant/wont self censor and ignore the feelings/beliefs/rights of other people in society.
On the other hand, most certainly the rights of the unborn to live is of much greater importance than your opinion that kids may be harmed by the images or the rights of someone to choose not to look at them.
That is a bogus argument.

You do not need such graphic images to educate the public about abortion. You dont need to expose people to these images without their conscent (or the parents conscent in the case of children) to get your message accross.

That has nothing to do with the rights of the fetous at all.

If you feel that you cant convince people of the rightness of your cause without the graphic images, then perhaps you should stop and let someone else try.
 
Who’s hiding? I make my where abouts known and my issues are straight forward. I am anti-abortion and anti-abortion rights. This subject is not about abortion. It is about whether this type of display is right or wrong in public. If it is wrong, then it can not be used, even for a good motive.
Still waiting to hear how it is wrong, other than the false notion that children are marred by them.
**All of the evidence **I have been provided over and over on this topic in support of using such photos points to anecdotal testimonies, which consist almost entirely of testimonies from those who saw these images on websites, not on the sides of trucks.
Actually you have been provided with testimony (go look up one of the old threads) where women changed their mind after seeing these images on the street.
 
That has already been explained.
No, it has only been stated by personal opinion that children are harmed by the images, which is false.
Well of course it my opinion. But it is also other peoples opinion and apparently it is valid.
And you would like pro-lifers who choose to display these images censored based on your opinion.
Rights?

Im sorry but nothing gives you the right to expose people to graphic images without their conscent, or expose them to children without the parents conscent.
It is a constitutionally protected right.
You dont have the right to make someone view something that they choose not to view, you are taking away their right to choice.
The correct statement is you have the right to choose what you view, not what others choose to display.
Crying censorship is a non-argument, because it appears that censorship is necessary at times because some cant/wont self censor and ignore the feelings/beliefs/rights of other people in society.
Censorship is valid when it pertains to immoral actions. Displaying the tragedy of abortion is not immoral.
That is a bogus argument.

You do not need such graphic images to educate the public about abortion. You dont need to expose people to these images without their conscent (or the parents conscent in the case of children) to get your message accross.
No one said you need to, but it is an option, and an effective one at that. There are people alive today who wouldn’t be here right now if it weren’t for them. Testimony has been given.
If you feel that you cant convince people of the rightness of your cause without the graphic images, then perhaps you should stop and let someone else try.
There are many ways to convince people. Not all respond the same to any given tactic. It would be nice if there was a ‘one and only’ way which would eliminate the need for all other means, but that is not the case.
 
Simply put, the end does not justify any and all means.
The end: reducing abortion. The means: displaying reality of abortion. The ends most certainly does justify the means. No one has stated any and all means are justified, only that graphic signs are indeed justifiable.
 
No, it has only been stated by personal opinion that children are harmed by the images, which is false.
Then you have not been reading this thread.
And you would like pro-lifers who choose to display these images censored based on your opinion.
On my opinion?

I guess that I would. But that doesnt mean that my opinion is purely based on opinion.
It is a constitutionally protected right.
No it is not. Nothing in your constitution states that you can make people view something without their conscent (like view graphic images).
The correct statement is you have the right to choose what you view, not what others choose to display.
No that wouldnt be correct, people dont get a choice in viewing these images.
Censorship is valid when it pertains to immoral actions. Displaying the tragedy of abortion is not immoral.
Actually censorship covers a lot more than immoral actions. Besides some people would view parading pictures of dismembered unborns (no matter the intention) as immoral.
No one said you need to, but it is an option, and an effective one at that.
Well dont try and use bogus arguments when you know that they are not true.
There are people alive today who wouldn’t be here right now if it weren’t for them. Testimony has been given.
Its still besides the point.
There are many ways to convince people.
One of which is to not get them off side from the onset.
Not all respond the same to any given tactic. It would be nice if there was a ‘one and only’ way which would eliminate the need for all other means, but that is not the case.
Nobody was arguing that. What is being said is that exposing people to graphic images (without their conscent, parents conscent, or even giving a warning of what is being displayed) isnt the way to go. Dont twist the argument into something it isnt. We are talking about displaying graphic images in public places without warning people or getting conscent, we are not talking about the abortion issue and if it is right/just to oppose it.

Views on abortion have nothing to do with being for or against these graphic images, as people have shown they can oppose abortion (and turn up to clinics to protest/pray) yet still object to using graphic images.
 
I don’t see what the problem is. All he was doing was showing the results of a perfectly legal activity.
 
I don’t see what the problem is. All he was doing was showing the results of a perfectly legal activity.
The production of porn is legal too, doesn’t mean we need to put porn on trucks and drive them around shopping malls and schools.

As some say “it’s an evil act and people need to be aware!”

While I agree totally with this, rape is evil too, doesn’t mean pictures of rapes in action need to be shown to children. The holocaust was evil too, doesn’t mean emaciated corpses need to be shown to a 5 year old against the parent’s will.
 
Then you have not been reading this thread.
Yes I have. I can’t find what makes it immoral. You can’t justify why it is wrong and therefore brush it off by saying “go read this thread”. I have seen one poster post a bunch of excerpts about protecting childrens’ innocence. You would have to reason that these pictures harm their innocence, which is a faulty conclusion.
On my opinion?

I guess that I would. But that doesnt mean that my opinion is purely based on opinion.
But it is false.
No it is not. Nothing in your constitution states that you can make people view something without their conscent (like view graphic images).
I didn’t say you can make someone view something any more than freedom of the press forces you to read something. I said it is your responsibility to decide what you will view. You can choose to look or choose not to look. What does your constitution say?
No that wouldnt be correct, people dont get a choice in viewing these images.
Yes they do.
Actually censorship covers a lot more than immoral actions. Besides some people would view parading pictures of dismembered unborns (no matter the intention) as immoral.
But the fact of the matter is, is that it is not immoral. The abortion is what is immoral.
Well dont try and use bogus arguments when you know that they are not true.
But they are true. They are effective and have saved lives. This does not mean you need to use them. But that also doesn’t mean they are wrong to use.
Its still besides the point.
No it isn’t. How is this testimony besides the point?
Nobody was arguing that. What is being said is that exposing people to graphic images (without their conscent, parents conscent, or even giving a warning of what is being displayed) isnt the way to go. Dont twist the argument into something it isnt. We are talking about displaying graphic images in public places without warning people or getting conscent, we are not talking about the abortion issue and if it is right/just to oppose it.
How did you come to the conclusion that we were talking about anything other than the morality of displaying the images from what I wrote here:
There are many ways to convince people. Not all respond the same to any given tactic. It would be nice if there was a ‘one and only’ way which would eliminate the need for all other means, but that is not the case.
 
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