German Muslim professor expressed his doubt that Muhammad ever lived.

[Sam_777]

Location: University of Münster - Germany.
Name: Professor Muhammad Sven Kalisch.
Link: spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,579052,00.html

Since the Interview was done with another researcher (Michael Marx), I wonder if someone can get us more information about Professor Muhammad Sven Kalisch research, I’ve tried to search for it at the University site, but it seems all links are in German language.

 

[Nicolas]

Remind me of some “professors” who have done research THAT JESUS DIDN’T EXIST…

Ironically, his name is Muhammad

 

[planten]

Location: University of Münster - Germany.
Name: Professor Muhammad Sven Kalisch.
Link: spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,579052,00.html

Since the Interview was done with another researcher (Michael Marx), I wonder if someone can get us more information about Professor Muhammad Sven Kalisch research, I’ve tried to search for it at the University site, but it seems all links are in German language.

**That Muslim German professor named Muhamamd is still a Muslim? Will you please ask him that? When he got that idea in his head that Muhammad prophet never lived?

As for you Sam, please be sure about the geneology of Jesus mentioned in the bible. Muhammad lived only 1400 years ago. There are many great persons in the religious line who lived 4500 years ago. If such ideas are allowed to creep then God forbid, there will be no one known to be living in their time.

Your inquiry is good against such criminals who come to spread doubt about the definite things. I hope you will approach the matter in such a way as to get rid of that nasty German professor…

**

 

[Contarini]

So asking a historical question is criminal?

You have nicely confirmed all the prejudices many of us have against Muslims.

We Christians have been dealing with skeptical scholarship for a couple centuries now. We do not, in the modern world, deal with it through violence. Centuries ago, we treated such inquiries as criminal also, which is no doubt one reason why they were much rarer then. Similarly, fewer scholars are skeptical about Islam because they are likely to be killed for asking such questions. And then Muslims have the cheek to use our openness against us by citing skeptical scholarship about Christianity while ignoring or reviling such scholarship in the case of Islam! (I’m thinking particularly of the way Muslims use textual criticism to argue that the NT has been “corrupted,” while ignoring the scholarship that questions the traditional account of the formation of the Qur’an.)

Edwin

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Sam_777:

...German **Muslim** professor expressed his doubt that Muhammad ever lived.

lol…anyone denies any messenger of God Almighty is not a Muslim at all.

 

[Dekator]

Just to clarify a point. The commotion about Prof. is to be understood in the context of a peculiar German institution. Confessional instruction. In german schools pupils are taught religion according to their confession. Prof. Kalisch instructs future reiligious teachers (‘Religionslehrer’). His christian colleagues, be they catholic or otherwise, are obliged by their respective churches to believe in the central tenets of their confession. Now the islamic council in Germany asks for the same standard. Nothing more, nothing less. Nobody has a problem with Prof. Kalisch doing his research etc. However, his post aims at the education of confessional teachers, not islamic studies or scholarship in general.
While the whole concept of school-instruction may be a difficult one, this is not a question of free science or not. The contents of Kalisch’s claim are a different matter altogether. Technically, I think, he has ceased to be a muslim.
But of course, his opinions aren’t ‘criminal’, just debatable.

 

[R_not]

Unfortunately, there is too much evidence that mohammed did indeed live. Too bad for so many millions, and probably even more than that, who have died because of that man, or were/are duped because of him.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Unfortunately, there is too much evidence that mohammed did indeed live. Too bad for so many millions, and probably even more than that, who have died because of that man, or were/are duped because of him.

did not see you lately bashing Islam or the last Prophet (p);

I was wondering what’s wrong with R_not ? Why s/he is not doing this ?

Welcome back

 

[Contarini]

Just to clarify a point. The commotion about Prof. is to be understood in the context of a peculiar German institution. Confessional instruction. In german schools pupils are taught religion according to their confession. Prof. Kalisch instructs future reiligious teachers (‘Religionslehrer’). His christian colleagues, be they catholic or otherwise, are obliged by their respective churches to believe in the central tenets of their confession. Now the islamic council in Germany asks for the same standard. Nothing more, nothing less. Nobody has a problem with Prof. Kalisch doing his research etc. However, his post aims at the education of confessional teachers, not islamic studies or scholarship in general.
While the whole concept of school-instruction may be a difficult one, this is not a question of free science or not. The contents of Kalisch’s claim are a different matter altogether. Technically, I think, he has ceased to be a muslim.
But of course, his opinions aren’t ‘criminal’, just debatable.

Thanks for this clarification. Obviously if Hans Kung can be removed as a professor of Catholic theology, then Muslims have the right to demand the same thing for someone who denies essential teachings of their faith.

Edwin

 

[AnAtheist]

I hope you will approach the matter in such a way as to get rid of that nasty German professor.

Like shoot him? In the name of peace of course.

 

[planten]

Like shoot him? In the name of peace of course.

**Na, never shoot a dead man. He is spiritually dead. But you being AnAtheist, you do not believe in spirits or holy spirit. So you will not understand these things.

Get rid of him means leave him alone. Get him out of your head and out of your books.

Hand him over to the Atheists, please.
**

 

[thedavidwilson]

Like shoot him? In the name of peace of course.

Sharia law does require the execution of apostates. As muhammed said:

“Anyone who changes his (islamic) religion, kill him”

 

[thedavidwilson]

Salaam/peace

did not see you lately bashing Islam or the last Prophet (p);

I was wondering what’s wrong with R_not ? Why s/he is not doing this ?

Welcome back

How is exposing the Truth about islam bashing? If the truth “bashes” your faith then you should probably examine your faith.

 

[planten]

How is exposing the Truth about islam bashing? If the truth “bashes” your faith then you should probably examine your faith.

**If your god Jesus is in the habit of praying. I never knew that Gods also pray. And If your god dies also. I never knew that Gods die too. But we do not try to exploit those truths so far.

Would you that we also adopt that method as a habit to show you some special truths about church? What use will it be? I hope you will understand, please.

Muhammad never said .“Any one who changes his religion, kill him.” He was the champion of liberty, of free belief. If there is anything in the Hadith, it is some mistake like many of those in the bible.**

 

[thedavidwilson]

**If your god Jesus is in the habit of praying. I never knew that Gods also pray. And If your god dies also. I never knew that Gods die too. But we do not try to exploit those truths so far.

Would you that we also adopt that method as a habit to show you some special truths about church? What use will it be? I hope you will understand, please.

Muhammad never said .“Any one who changes his religion, kill him.” He was the champion of liberty, of free belief. If there is anything in the Hadith, it is some mistake like many of those in the bible.**

You are getting your knowledge of Christianity from the quran. How about learning what Christians really believe.

What does death mean to you? Will you cease to exist when your body dies?

Do you reject this hadith then? Do you reject all of Bukari? What other hadiths do you reject? If so many of the hadiths are weak or inaccurate why do muslims keep publishing books of them? Why does the Muslim Student Association place them on the internet?

btw your rejection of this hadith and this interpretation is hertodoxy to all 4 schools of islamic jurisprudence. But I guess that is OK since muslims can customize their faith when it is convenient, right?

 

[planten]

You are getting your knowledge of Christianity from the quran. How about learning what Christians really believe.

What does death mean to you? Will you cease to exist when your body dies?

Do you reject this hadith then? Do you reject all of Bukari? What other hadiths do you reject? If so many of the hadiths are weak or inaccurate why do muslims keep publishing books of them? Why does the Muslim Student Association place them on the internet?

btw your rejection of this hadith and this interpretation is hertodoxy to all 4 schools of islamic jurisprudence. But I guess that is OK since muslims can customize their faith when it is convenient, right?

** I do not learn christainity from Quran. The questions I raised about a God praying is not in Quran. It is in the bible NT. The news of a God dying is not in the Quran. It is in the bible NT. I hope you know that I do not learn bible from the Quran.

About Hadith, it is essential to believe the Hadith if it passes some tests. We do not believe the Hadith blindly as you do bible NT. WE test the Hadith against Quran. And also against other well known, superior quality Hadith too. If any Hadith does not pass those tests then we need not follow it.

Death penulty should be in the Quran. If it is not there then the Hadith alone cannot enact it. thanks for reading.**

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Sharia law does require the execution of apostates. As muhammed said:

“Anyone who changes his (islamic) religion, kill him”

ex Muslims won’t be punished if not involved in conspiracy against Muslims/ involved in ethnic cleansing of Muslims etc.

related links:

Is Apostasy a Capital Crime in Islam?

By Dr. Jamal A. Badawi**

…Behold, as for those who come to believe,

and then deny the truth,

and again come to believe,

and again deny the truth,

and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth —

God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any way.

(An-Nisaa’ 4:137)

It is important to note in the above verse that if the Qur’an prescribes capital punishment for apostasy, then the apostate should be killed after the first instance of apostasy.

As such there would be no opportunity to “again come to believe and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth”.

In spite of these acts of repeated apostasy, no capital punishment is prescribed for them

islamonline.net/english/Contemporary/2006/04/Article02.shtml

Islam & Freedom of Belief

–Ahmad Kutty

…Even though the penalty for treason was the death penalty (as was the case in the Law of Moses as well), there was **no targeting of people who simply chose to leave Islam without any implication of treason. **

To simply kill anyone who chooses to follow a religion other than Islam is against the fundamental teachings of the Qur’an.

Freedom of conscience is a fundamental principle of the Qur’an that is clearly stated in many Qur’anic verses. I list just a few:

Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed.

So can you (Prophet) compel people to believe?

(Yunus 10: 99).

Say,

‘Now the truth has come from your Lord:

Let those who wish to believe in it do so, and let those who wish to reject it do so’

(Al-Kahf 17: 29).

[So (people) respond to your Lord before there comes a Day that cannot, against God’s will,

be averted—you will have no refuge on that Day, and no possibility of denying (your sins).

If they still turn away (remember that) We have not sent you (Prophet) to be their keeper: your duty is to deliver the message]

(Ash-Shura 42: 47-48).

There is no compulsion in religion:

true guidance has become distinct from error,

so whoever rejects false gods and believes in Allah has grasped the firmest hand-hold,

one that will never break.

Allah is all hearing and all knowing

(Al-Baqrah 2: 256).

Allah Almighty knows best.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503548996

 

[R_not]

Salaam/peace

did not see you lately bashing Islam or the last Prophet (p);

I was wondering what’s wrong with R_not ? Why s/he is not doing this ?

Welcome back

How can you bash islam when I just take your own koran and hadiths, the muslim’s own actions, its sharia laws - and repeat it back to you? You guys don’t even know your own ‘religion’.

We are called bashers, or islamophobes (easy way for muslims to resort to when they have nothing else).

Here is another article by a muslim about islam:
europenews.dk/en/node/13862
Islam is a Violent “Faith”

And he shows what it is via its own teachings.

I should add that it is not my full time job to do da’wa on these threads, as it is yours.

 

[R_not]

** I do not learn christainity from Quran. The questions I raised about a God praying is not in Quran. It is in the bible NT. The news of a God dying is not in the Quran. It is in the bible NT. I hope you know that I do not learn bible from the Quran.

About Hadith, it is essential to believe the Hadith if it passes some tests. We do not believe the Hadith blindly as you do bible NT. WE test the Hadith against Quran. And also against other well known, superior quality Hadith too. If any Hadith does not pass those tests then we need not follow it.

Death penulty should be in the Quran. If it is not there then the Hadith alone cannot enact it. thanks for reading.**

It sounds too convenient to just pick and chose what haditha and surah muslims want to believe in. But, is it really the full truth here? Since muslims also are told to deceive us, how can we believe that what someone says that muslims don’t believe in the violent passages - that this is entirely true? Especially since all we hear from jihadists are their own koran and hadiths to justify their murdering rampages.

Of course, in all these discussions it is never mentioned by muslims about the abrograted passages that they insist are what muslims follow were really replaced.

Violence, terror and islam
faithfreedom.org/Articles/Mahfuzur30411.htm

this article goes into how jihad is essential to islam as the resurrection is to Christianity.
faithfreedom.org/Articles/JenniferKing50710.htm

a quote from the above article: **The last two chapters of the Qur’an are chapter 5 and chapter 9, in their correct chronological order, Allah’s Last Call. The opinions of scholars differ over which is the last chapter, but they both contain the final orders for all Muslims. These laws abrogate, cancel ALL the earlier, ‘peaceful and tolerant’ verses of the Qur’an. These final and absolute orders demand Jihad, holy war against all non-Muslims forever. All non-Muslims must be killed, enslaved and controlled by Muslims. Islam must rule the world. Islam is in fact a License to Kill in the name of Allah. Holy War is the holy law of Islam. This unique law called Jihad gives all Muslims the right to attack and kill non-Muslims, to loot, rape and enslave them, and to rule the world in the name of Allah.

Jihad is as essential to Islam as the Resurrection is to Christianity. **

 

[planten]

Countries have their own laws and they say they are Islamic. There is a news item that two Iranian Muslims who became christians are on trial for apostacy. The likely verdict is death for them. But let us see what actually happens, in todays Iran.