germs on the Communion cup

[Sarabande]

I’ve received from the communion cup only twice. The first time was in college in which I got mono not long after receiving from the cup after tons of other college kids received and was sick for a month. Mind you, I never kissed anyone, nor did I ever share my drinks and other things of that sort with other people. I’m a classical singer, so I’ve always been very careful regarding getting a cold that will affect my vocal chords, otherwise it can cost me a job. I never got mono before or since then. And I never received from the cup at a regular mass after that until my wedding day when my husband and I were the second two to receive after our priest who married us. We wanted to receive under both species for that mass.

As to rotating the cup and wiping the cup, there is only so many times a cup can be rotated and the cloth is being used again and again during that one mass. It just give a false sense of sanitation. I mean, if a person was at a restaurant and they found out that their glass was never washed properly, but just wiped with a cloth, I don’t think that person would be too happy about using that glass.

At the same time, I don’t have anything against receiving from the cup. If people feel called to do it, then they should go ahead and do it. I just can’t take the chance.

 

[FrDavid96]

Lots of interresting discussion here.

It’s interresting to note that, especially during “cold and flu season” the topic of receiving the Precious Blood always seems to come-up. I’m no fan of distributing the Blood by a common cup (much less the Chalice itself), but the likelihood of passing-on disease by this method is relatively small. The person distributing almost always wipes off the used area with a purificator before the next person receives, and while that’s not strictly speaking “sanitizing” the cup it does go a long way. The greater danger of passing germs actually comes from touching the cup with one’s hands. Our hands are what carry and transmit most germs (of the cold and flu variety at least). The stem and base of the cup are actually what will carry those germs from one person to another, moreso than the rim of the cup. This is the part of the chalice, which ironically does not get purified before the next person receives.

Church is unfortunately a great place to pass along (or catch!) germs because so many people from so many different places are all gathered in one spot. The doorknobs, the back of the pews, and all those places where we typically put our hands are actually the “method” for passing germs, much much more than a cup or chalice.

In reality, the most unsanitary thing to happen at Mass is the Sign of Peace because this is when everyone takes all the germs gathered from the home, the gas station on the way to church, the litter one picked-up from the sidewalk, the doorknob, the missalette (used by someone at the last Mass who had a realy nasty cold but you wouldn’t know that), and passes them along to the next person, who passes them along to the next person, who passes them along to the next person…(get the idea?)

 

[otjm]

There’s no need for any special procedures. If you are sick, or if you are susceptible to illness, or if you have a weak immune system, or have any concern, simply do not receive from the chalice. The entire Body and Blood of Christ is present under either form, either the consecrated bread or the consecrated wine. You really are not missing out on anything.

As for individual spoons, etc., it would be a nightmare to make sure that drops of the Precious Blood are not inadvertently dropped anywhere and to try to purify hundreds of sterile dippers, spoons, etc. in the sacrarium.

I t doesnt seemt to be a nightmare for the Byzantine Rite Catholic Church; so why should you decide that it is a nightmare? The better answer is that it is part of the liturgical history of eastern rites but not western rites.

 

[otjm]

I’ve received from the communion cup only twice. The first time was in college in which I got mono not long after receiving from the cup after tons of other college kids received and was sick for a month. Mind you, I never kissed anyone, nor did I ever share my drinks and other things of that sort with other people. I’m a classical singer, so I’ve always been very careful regarding getting a cold that will affect my vocal chords, otherwise it can cost me a job. I never got mono before or since then. And I never received from the cup at a regular mass after that until my wedding day when my husband and I were the second two to receive after our priest who married us. We wanted to receive under both species for that mass.

As to rotating the cup and wiping the cup, there is only so many times a cup can be rotated and the cloth is being used again and again during that one mass. It just give a false sense of sanitation. I mean, if a person was at a restaurant and they found out that their glass was never washed properly, but just wiped with a cloth, I don’t think that person would be too happy about using that glass.

At the same time, I don’t have anything against receiving from the cup. If people feel called to do it, then they should go ahead and do it. I just can’t take the chance.

You seem to be making the presumption that you got mono from the Cup. I’ll bet you had breakfast, lunch and dinner that week - were you in a dorm, or did you eat out that week?

I got mono too; but I didn’t get it from the Cup, and I didn’t kiss anyone either. Your presumption might hold a bit of water if a group of people from the same Mass, who all received from the Cup all came down with mono. If they didn’t, then you have no proof whatsoever that you received mono that way.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

I t doesnt seemt to be a nightmare for the Byzantine Rite Catholic Church; so why should you decide that it is a nightmare? The better answer is that it is part of the liturgical history of eastern rites but not western rites.

Because it seemed that the poster was not suggesting ONE spoon to be used by everyone (which is what I have experienced the numerous times I have attended Divine Liturgy at a Byzantine Catholic Church), but rather was suggesting SEPARATE spoons for anyone who felt the need to use them. That could quickly get out of hand, and is probably not permitted anyway.

 

[Sarabande]

You seem to be making the presumption that you got mono from the Cup. I’ll bet you had breakfast, lunch and dinner that week - were you in a dorm, or did you eat out that week?

I got mono too; but I didn’t get it from the Cup, and I didn’t kiss anyone either. Your presumption might hold a bit of water if a group of people from the same Mass, who all received from the Cup all came down with mono. If they didn’t, then you have no proof whatsoever that you received mono that way.

That is true… I didn’t have solid, scientific proof to satisfy a scientist. I do know that there were a number of sick kids from our Newman Center around the same time, so it is a possibility that I got it that way, although I never went on a witch hunt to ask each and every one them who drank from the cup. And having a father for a doctor and a mother for a nurse, we went through all the reasonable places and situations of where I could have gotten it. The most likely was from the cup based on the time that I got mono and when I drank from it. At the same time, still no “scientific proof”. There is a possibility I could have become sick that way, though. But like I said before, I can’t take the chance. We’re told from the time that we are children to not share each other’s drinks, to wash our hands, etc. to avoid the spread of germs and getting sick. I’m not scared of germs or dirt, but I do have to be careful due to the nature of how I make my living. And luckily having worked in my father’s office during my high and college years and also working as a music teacher for a couple years, my immune system has grown relatively stronger than the average person. But I still get sick once in a while and have lost jobs that way.

Again, I’m not judging other people who choose to drink from the cup, and realize there are people out there who get all bent out of shape whenever anyone mentions the possibility of getting sick from drinking from the cup. That’s their own “problem” and choosing to not drink from the cup is my “problem”. For me I choose not to do it and I hope that I am not being judged for that just as I don’t judge others who do. If the Church mandates that we have to receive both species, then I will grin and pray that I won’t get sick. But until then I prefer to only receive the Eucharist - and fortunately our parish only distributes the Eucharist.

 

[Digitonomy]

But until then I prefer to only receive the Eucharist - and fortunately our parish only distributes the Eucharist.

Just to nitpick - the Eucharist is confected from both the bread and the wine, and the term can refer to either or both. I think you meant to say that you prefer to receive just the host, not the cup.

 

[EasterJoy]

That is true… I didn’t have solid, scientific proof to satisfy a scientist. I do know that there were a number of sick kids from our Newman Center around the same time, so it is a possibility that I got it that way, although I never went on a witch hunt to ask each and every one them who drank from the cup. And having a father for a doctor and a mother for a nurse, we went through all the reasonable places and situations of where I could have gotten it. The most likely was from the cup based on the time that I got mono and when I drank from it. At the same time, still no “scientific proof”. There is a possibility I could have become sick that way, though. But like I said before, I can’t take the chance. We’re told from the time that we are children to not share each other’s drinks, to wash our hands, etc. to avoid the spread of germs and getting sick. I’m not scared of germs or dirt, but I do have to be careful due to the nature of how I make my living. And luckily having worked in my father’s office during my high and college years and also working as a music teacher for a couple years, my immune system has grown relatively stronger than the average person. But I still get sick once in a while and have lost jobs that way.

Again, I’m not judging other people who choose to drink from the cup, and realize there are people out there who get all bent out of shape whenever anyone mentions the possibility of getting sick from drinking from the cup. That’s their own “problem” and choosing to not drink from the cup is my “problem”. For me I choose not to do it and I hope that I am not being judged for that just as I don’t judge others who do. If the Church mandates that we have to receive both species, then I will grin and pray that I won’t get sick. But until then I prefer to only receive the Eucharist - and fortunately our parish only distributes the Eucharist.

The CDC didn’t say you can’t get sick that way. The CDC only said that people who receive from a common cup on a regular basis do not get sick more often than people who don’t even go to church. (This, as opposed to, for example, people sharing their household with a child who attends a preschool or daycare.)

You’ll also want to bring one of those little travel-sized bottles of waterless soap, to use after the sign of peace, or else receive Holy Communion on the tongue instead of in the hand.

I don’t mean that tongue-in-cheek. If it is very important you not pick up a communicable disease, you’ll not want to eat out of an unwashed hand that’s just shaken hands with four or six or eight strangers and has been grasping a pew that’s been sucked on by toddlers. The number of people who cough or sneeze directly into their hands or who unconsciously rub their noses or cannot stand not to have their hands in their own faces over the course of an hour is very high.

 

[Sarabande]

The CDC didn’t say you can’t get sick that way. The CDC only said that people who receive from a common cup on a regular basis do not get sick more often than people who don’t even go to church. (This, as opposed to, for example, people sharing their household with a child who attends a preschool or daycare.)

Thanks, I did know that and I have enough parents to let me know that too when I worry about getting sick a week before a huge performance. haha! I was just replying to a particular post.

You’ll also want to bring one of those little travel-sized bottles of waterless soap, to use after the sign of peace, or else receive Holy Communion on the tongue instead of in the hand.

I only receive on the tongue due to my own personal faith journey. Although I know that there would be people who will say I possibly could just as easily get sick from doing it that way too. But I’ve never had anyone touch my tongue yet. I’ve learned how to do it after getting over the initial fear of having it drop from my tongue or getting touched.

I don’t mean that tongue-in-cheek. If it is very important you not pick up a communicable disease, you’ll not want to eat out of an unwashed hand that’s just shaken hands with four or six or eight strangers and has been grasping a pew that’s been sucked on by toddlers. The number of people who cough or sneeze directly into their hands or who unconsciously rub their noses or cannot stand not to have their hands in their own faces over the course of an hour is very high.

Oh believe me, I know that. I taught music from age 2 to 14 for two years before going into performing head on. My first year of teaching was spent every other week with a horrible cold from my adorable, little students. How can you not help but hug them and hold their hands when they run up to you for their hugs and call you “Mommy” (some of them didn’t have good home lives)? It makes your heart melt, especially when you were an engaged 24-year-old girl on the brink of marriage. You do your best to wash your hands and clear away the germs, but when you work hands-on with little ones, playing on instruments with them and other things, there’s only so much you can do. Fortunately, after that year, my immune system was strong enough to handle it the next year. But that fall and winter was not a good one for me, performance-wise.

Anyway, I’ve done fairly well not getting sick most of the time, so I must be doing something right. As I said, I’m not scared of dirt or germs, so I’m not the kind who remembers to bring sanitary wipes and things of that sort, (my husband always teases me about being the only woman who doesn’t keep all the necessities of tissues, Advil, sanitary wipes, etc. in her purse) although I make sure to keep my hands clean as much as possible and keep away from people with colds.

 

[Sarabande]

Just to nitpick - the Eucharist is confected from both the bread and the wine, and the term can refer to either or both. I think you meant to say that you prefer to receive just the host, not the cup.

Thanks for nitpicking, especially in regards to the subject. Yes, I meant I prefer to receive only the host.

 

[Phemie]

Today in my parish, due to a nasty norovirus that has taken its toll on the town, the pastor decided not to offer Communion from the Chalice. A wise move, IMHO. He announced it before Mass and made a comment about precautions to avoid the spread of disease. I seem to have been the only one to get the ‘perhaps you might want to avoid shaking hands at the Sign of Peace’ message.

Now if only he’d bothered to actually distribute Communion instead of letting two EMHCs do it for him while he sat down.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Perhaps this has been discussed already.

That would be correct. But there’s rarely harm in discussing things anew.

Here is a Karl Keating E-Letter that deals, in part, with the subject: [January 16, 2007]

And a [post=1824552]post in a thread responding to that letter[/post].

And perhaps I might re-pose my question on people’s personal practices: To all of you who do not believe that disease may be transmitted by the common cup, but refrain from partaking if you yourself are feeling sick: **What, are your germs special or something?

tee

 

[Jerry-Jet]

There are worse ways to die than by germs transmitted during the Eucharist.

Jesus didn’t seem to mind that His disciples did not wash their hands before they ate ordinary food.

If He didn’t seem to mind or will that they be concerned about germs and wash their hands before partaking of ordinary food–do you really think that He wills that people be concerned about germs when receiving Him in the Eucharist?

 

[FrDavid96]

There are worse ways to die than by germs transmitted during the Eucharist.

Jesus didn’t seem to mind that His disciples did not wash their hands before they ate ordinary food.

If He didn’t seem to mind or will that they be concerned about germs and wash their hands before partaking of ordinary food–do you really think that He wills that people be concerned about germs when receiving Him in the Eucharist?

That reminds me of an old joke.

A man is on his porch watching the flood waters rise. A neighbor walks up and says “it’s time to leave” he says “no, God will save me” The waters rise, and another neighbor comes by in a boat. “No thanks, God will save me.” Standing on the roof, a helicopter comes to rescue him “no, God will save me.”

He meets God at the gates of Heaven and asks “why didn’t you save me.” He says “What do you mean, I sent three people to save you but you turned them away!”

“God, why didn’t you save me from catching the flu at Mass?”
…

“Didn’t you read the bulletin?”

 

[EasterJoy]

Today in my parish, due to a nasty norovirus that has taken its toll on the town, the pastor decided not to offer Communion from the Chalice. A wise move, IMHO. He announced it before Mass and made a comment about precautions to avoid the spread of disease. I seem to have been the only one to get the ‘perhaps you might want to avoid shaking hands at the Sign of Peace’ message. .

The lady in front of us in Mass yesterday was restricting herself to a “verbal only” sign of peace, explaining that she had a pretty bad cold. Very charitable on her part, I thought.

Now if only he’d bothered to actually distribute Communion instead of letting two EMHCs do it for him while he sat down.

Maybe he wasn’t feeling so hot himself.

 

[otjm]

But until then I prefer to only receive the Eucharist - and fortunately our parish only distributes the Eucharist.

I prefer to only receive the Eucharist too - and I do it by receiving both the Host and the Cup. Both are the Eucharist, and either is the Eucharist. Eucharist from the Greek means to give thanks.

I don’t get on anyone’s case about whether they receive one, the other or both. But unless and until someone can actually show that there is a very good, to great likelyhood that they got sick from receiving from the Cup, it would be better that we simply operate on our personal opinions and keep them to ourselves. I have heard anecdotal “evidence” given as gospel truth that one had gotten sick after receiving from the Cup; given that colds and other illnesses may have varying “incubation” times and we all are generally exposed to a large and largely unobserved circumstances in which we might pick up the cause of the illness, it is all too easy to simply use a predeliction against receiving the cup as a bias towards assuming that we got sick because we received from the Cup.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? That is another question, and experts have weighed in on both sides. There are plenty of doctors and others who study such issues who say that it is unlikely.

And then there is an issue of trust. I trust Christ with my wellness, and not just in the issue of receiving from the Cup. And if I do contract something, I deal with it; but not be changing how I receive.
I was an altar boy long before Vatican 2 rolled around, and many were the times that the priest would draw a string of spit from someone’s mouth while distributing the Host (everyone received on the tongue then). No one went around protesting that they would not or should not receive that way because they might get something. And the congregation was not generally in poor health. During the cold season, people got colds. No one blamed it on receiving Communion; he wiped his thumb across the cloth we carried on our left arm, and we all went about our business. He took far less care in wiping his thumb than most Cup ministers nowdays do in wiping the rim of the Cup.

 

[Phemie]

Maybe he wasn’t feeling so hot himself.

Nope, that’s not it. His thinking is that in order to validate them as EMHCs they are to serve any time they are scheduled even if that violates the documents. We’ve already butted heads over that.

The mission he’s given himself while he’s in our parish is to prepare us to function without a priest and his way of doing that is to have the various ministers do the ‘jobs’ even while the priest is still here. To him that’s the only way to make sure the community understands that the ministers are allowed to do the things they do. He gave me the example of one of his previous communities where the leaders of prayers did the funeral rites even though the bishop was celebrating the funeral Mass. I think it goes with his order’s charism as missionaries.

 

[otjm]

That reminds me of an old joke.

A man is on his porch watching the flood waters rise. A neighbor walks up and says “it’s time to leave” he says “no, God will save me” The waters rise, and another neighbor comes by in a boat. “No thanks, God will save me.” Standing on the roof, a helicopter comes to rescue him “no, God will save me.”

He meets God at the gates of Heaven and asks “why didn’t you save me.” He says “What do you mean, I sent three people to save you but you turned them away!”

“God, why didn’t you save me from catching the flu at Mass?”
…

“Didn’t you read the bulletin?”

Your joke is not logically related to the issue at hand. Cute, but no relation.

 

[otjm]

That would be correct. But there’s rarely harm in discussing things anew.

Here is a Karl Keating E-Letter that deals, in part, with the subject: [January 16, 2007]

And a [post=1824552]post in a thread responding to that letter[/post].

And perhaps I might re-pose my question on people’s personal practices: To all of you who do not believe that disease may be transmitted by the common cup, but refrain from partaking if you yourself are feeling sick: **What, are your germs *special ***or something?

tee

I usually find myself agreeing with Karl. However, considering hsi background as an attorney, let’s explore a little more his statements: he recalls a aletter by a priest who changed parishes; in the first one he finished whatever was ion the Cup after distributing to the parish; in the second he did not, and was of general feeling poorly towrads the end of his first parish assignement, but felt better after being at the second one.

He also changed residences. And there is more than a bit of literature within medical and scientific journals about “sick” residences and businesses, where people complain of non-specific illness or lack of well being; such cases are not limited to one individual, but are reported by others in the same business or house. The literature has identified issues that are causing the unspecified symptoms; moving out is one of the means of dealing with it.

The second comment he makes is “Other priests and many laymen have reported the same kind of thing.” This is a very curious “a lot of people say the same thing” without any attribution. I have yet to see any priests say it - they may have, but I sure would like to see where this has been reported - and the comment seems to be spurious with the inclusion of “many laymen” - sorry, I just doubt that many layment are reporting what the first priest reported.

It is certainly within the realm of possiblities that such evidence is available (I have not made a search; perhaps Karl is somehonw the collection point of these anecdotes), but I would assume that if this is occuring on something more than an individual basis, we would be hearing about it - there are about 42,000 priests in the US; if it occured with 1% of them, we should have 420 or so reports give or take a few. and I think with 420 priests, give or take a few, having this problem, it would not be only Karl who was hearing this.

In short - I don’t buy it as reliable. It smacks way too much of urban mythology. Then again, maybe I am wrong; maybe there is a whole lot of this going on and I just missed it. But citations to the evidence would certainly be nice, since what certainly looks like one more round of urban mythology is being used to say that receiving from the Cup is not so good an idea.

 

[Sarabande]

I prefer to only receive the Eucharist too - and I do it by receiving both the Host and the Cup. Both are the Eucharist, and either is the Eucharist. Eucharist from the Greek means to give thanks.

No need to be smart. And, thank you, I do know what Eucharist means. I’m just used to calling it all the Eucharist, which another poster already kindly addressed with me. It was a slip of the tongue - not any ignorance on my part.

I don’t get on anyone’s case about whether they receive one, the other or both. But unless and until someone can actually show that there is a very good, to great likelyhood that they got sick from receiving from the Cup, it would be better that we simply operate on our personal opinions and keep them to ourselves.

I appreciate you opinion, but I don’t find it wrong for anyone to give their personal opinion about things just because it goes against mine or yours. Actually, I think it is important to have varying opinions aired in order to make better choices. I don’t know if you were meaning my story, but I wasn’t saying it was gospel truth. I do know it was likely that I contracted that way after looking over all the likelihoods, even though I had no scientific evidence. I don’t have scientific evidence that God exists, but I do believe and choose to believe in Him.

Again, I don’t care whether or not others receive the cup, but was just giving my own personal reasons for not doing so. People can take it or leave it, but I think it is important to give all sides rather than just one. I wouldn’t tell other people who are totally into receiving the cup to not give their opinion on the subject.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? That is another question, and experts have weighed in on both sides. There are plenty of doctors and others who study such issues who say that it is unlikely.

And there are plenty of others who say it is. That’s the importance of varying expert opinion… so that the people like us can make our own decision and opinion on the subject. My opinion may be different from yours, but we both have every right to express it.

And then there is an issue of trust. I trust Christ with my wellness, and not just in the issue of receiving from the Cup. And if I do contract something, I deal with it; but not be changing how I receive.

Just because someone like myself chooses to not take from the cup doesn’t mean we do not trust in God. Perhaps I’m not perfect, but I do have utter trust in Him in practically everything. I’ve had to trust in Him in many other situations which were much more stressful and frightening. And I know there are plenty of other people who are the same.

God gave us a brain, common sense and the wherewithal to take all the information given to us in order to make an educated opinion and choice for our life. He gave me a voice to use in all aspects of my life, including for making a living. Common sense, given by God, told me to do what I need to do in order to keep me healthy so that I can continue to sing for my spiritual well-being as well as my living. Do I take a chance receiving on the tongue? Yes, I do, but I’d rather do that than receive via the cup if I want to receive Him. And, I actually never made a habit of receiving the cup, except for those two times, so there was no change in how I received the Eucharist. Nor do I protest the reception through the cup. I don’t care either way how one receives. It’s just my personal preference.

I do appreciate and respect your ideas and opinions and am happy that you are at peace with them, just as I am at peace with mine. Thank you and I think this interchange is complete. There is no more to say on this.