Gesture during the penitential rite

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seek1st

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I grew up in the 50’s and was taught to cross myself at the penitential riteas the priests says “May almighty God have **mercy **upon us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life. Amen”.

In most churches I am one of about two who use this gesture. Last week, I was in Louisiana at a Mass and most of the congregation crossed themselves at the mention of God’s mercy at this point in the Mass.

I am wondering if this is still a valid gesture - should I conform to the local tradition so as to be one in our posture?

Do you forum members practice this sign of the cross at the penitential rite?

All for the greater glory of God!!
 
Well, there are a couple of times during mass that I may cross myself like that. It kind of depends on if it catches my attention. My mind has a tendency to wander during mass.
 
I do so.

The gesture is not in the rubrics, but such signs of personal devotion are not forbidden.
 
A lot of the time we do not have those words in the Penetential Rite. When I attend Mass where the Pentential Rite is fully used I do make the sign of the Cross.
 
I make the sign of the corss. I think, thought, that if we had a liturgist on this board, maybe he could help us on this dilemna. I don’t think that Holy Mother CHurch would constitute the SOtC at the Penitential Rite a grave error.
 
If I remember correctly, this is one of the points in the Mass in which venial sins are forgiven. We make the Sign of the Cross here in acceptance of the forgiveness.
 
A few years ago, in my last parish (Diocese of St. Augustine, Florida, USA), we were asked to refrain from using the Sign of the Cross as part of the penitential rite during Mass. :bowdown2:

The reason given was that the Sign of the Cross :signofcross: is used “open” and “close” the Mass (celebration of the Eucharist), our “Ultimate Prayer.”

:yup:
 
The priest does not make the sign of the cross (as there is no absolution given). If you make the sign of the cross (which is not mandated), do so with the awareness that you have not just received sacramental absolution – the Penitential Rite is not the Sacrament of Penance (nor a substitute).
 
At my “Registered” parish, I am one of the few who does it. Where I go, almost everyone does it.
 
It is correct that the Mass’s Penitential Rite is NOT the Sacrament of Penance (or Reconciliation.) :tsktsk: However, the Penitential Rite does absolve from Venial Sins if the soul has not been stained by a Mortal Sin. :love: Absolution of Mortal Sins requires the Sacrament of Penance (with some limited exceptions.) :hmmm: Reference “reconciliation” at the vatican sites – enter through= vatican.va/index.htm

:yup:
 
In the Extraordinary Form, there are two prayers asking forgiveness in the penitential rite.

The sign of the cross is not made at the words:

May Almighty God have mercy on you, forgive you your sins, and bring you to everlasting life

It IS made at the words:

May the Almighty and Merciful Lord grant us pardon, **+ **absolution and remission of our sins.

In Latin, of course.
 
Interestingly, I have done this now ever since I found out about the custom some months ago. In the past few weeks I’ve noticed a lot more people doing it.

It’d be great if it were my example which rubbed off on 'em, but I suspect instead that it’s due to increased interest in the EF and all pertaining to it since the Motu Proprio.
 
I do this now after a) reading about it here on the forum b) going to a local parish & noticing that about 75% of the parish did so which I had never seen before c)reading about it other places at the same time.

I never saw it when I was a kid or a teen, but then again I wasn’t paying much attention back then to anything:o
 
As Mercygate said, this gesture comes from the older form of the Mass. I think that some people who were accustomed to making the Sign of the Cross have continued and others who have seen them have picked it up. I don’t think it really has a meaning since we’re not receiving absolution as we do during confession, but it doesn’t hurt anything. I would put it in the same class as holding your hands out as you say “and also with you.”
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
As Mercygate said, this gesture comes from the older form of the Mass. I think that some people who were accustomed to making the Sign of the Cross have continued and others who have seen them have picked it up. I don’t think it really has a meaning since we’re not receiving absolution as we do during confession, but it doesn’t hurt anything. I would put it in the same class as holding your hands out as you say “and also with you.”
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We aren’t being absolved of mortal sin, true, but the Penitential Rite DOES abolve us of venial sin. I make the gesture in recognition of this and in thanks for God’s mercy in so absolving me.
 
It all depends on how anal one wishes to get over the issue. It is not in the rubrics.

So, since holding hands during the Our Father is also not in the rubrics, and has been castigated at length and ad nauseum, one could look to those discussions; some would hold that since it is not in the rubrics, it is an “addition” and since we are not allowed to add or subtract anything from the Mass, it is absolutely forbidden.

By that logic, making the sign of the Cross is absolutely forbidden, and to do so is an abuse, which should by all means be reported to the bishop.

On the other hand, there are those who feel that the posture of one’s hands is not regulated at all for parishoners, and that since there is essentially no regulation at all, hand holding is acceptable.

By that logic, making the sign of the Cross is acceptable.

Then again, there are those who hold that a spontaneous hand holding is acceptable, but that the pastor has no authority to require or even suggest that all do so, as that would become a requirement of a posture that is not elucidated in the rubrics, thus getting us back to the issue of adding or subtracting from the Mass, and since this was being done by the priest and the warning to not add or subtract was directed to priests, it applies here and is an abuse. And see, reporting to the bishop.

Then too, we have those critics who chime in that first there is hand holding, and next there will be cart wheels down the isle (as that is not forbidden in the rubrics, as if!) or standing on one’s head (also not forbidden) and thus must be stopped or all sorts of rude and socially unadjustable antics will flow from it, and it must be stopped now. And see, reporting etc.

On the other hand, hand holding seems to have been for low, these forty years and no reports of upside down parishoners or cart wheelers. But then, one just doesn’t know…

And yet there are further issues of serious gravamin, to wit: hand holding is leading some to use the Orans posture, which is mimicing the priest and is absolutely verboten, and a horrible abuse. By this logic, since the priest might bless himelf or others and this too could be seen as mimicing the priest, it must be stamped out to avoid a threat to the dilution of the priesthood and heaven forbid we all know that leads to calls for women’s ordination next, don’t you know, and see the bishop, above and etc.

To which I might comment: the problem with common sense is that it is not all that common.
 
otjm said:
It all depends on how anal one wishes to get over the issue. It is not in the rubrics.

So, since holding hands during the Our Father is also not in the rubrics, and has been castigated at length and ad nauseum, one could look to those discussions; some would hold that since it is not in the rubrics, it is an “addition” and since we are not allowed to add or subtract anything from the Mass, it is absolutely forbidden.

By that logic, making the sign of the Cross is absolutely forbidden, and to do so is an abuse, which should by all means be reported to the bishop.

On the other hand, there are those who feel that the posture of one’s hands is not regulated at all for parishoners, and that since there is essentially no regulation at all, hand holding is acceptable.

By that logic, making the sign of the Cross is acceptable.

Then again, there are those who hold that a spontaneous hand holding is acceptable, but that the pastor has no authority to require or even suggest that all do so, as that would become a requirement of a posture that is not elucidated in the rubrics, thus getting us back to the issue of adding or subtracting from the Mass, and since this was being done by the priest and the warning to not add or subtract was directed to priests, it applies here and is an abuse. And see, reporting to the bishop.

Then too, we have those critics who chime in that first there is hand holding, and next there will be cart wheels down the isle (as that is not forbidden in the rubrics, as if!) or standing on one’s head (also not forbidden) and thus must be stopped or all sorts of rude and socially unadjustable antics will flow from it, and it must be stopped now. And see, reporting etc.

On the other hand, hand holding seems to have been for low, these forty years and no reports of upside down parishoners or cart wheelers. But then, one just doesn’t know…

And yet there are further issues of serious gravamin, to wit: hand holding is leading some to use the Orans posture, which is mimicing the priest and is absolutely verboten, and a horrible abuse. By this logic, since the priest might bless himelf or others and this too could be seen as mimicing the priest, it must be stamped out to avoid a threat to the dilution of the priesthood and heaven forbid we all know that leads to calls for women’s ordination next, don’t you know, and see the bishop, above and etc.

To which I might comment: the problem with common sense is that it is not all that common.
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Thank you. You just saved us about 250 posts on this thread.

But one more tweak.

Hand holding during the Our Father was never seen nor even thought of until when? 30 years ago, maybe? But making the sign of the cross at the penitential rite is a carryover from an earlier form, albeit misplaced because of the deletion of the second prayer of absolution. So the hand olidng is a novelty, but crossing oneself has been handed down.
 
mercygate said:
But one more tweak.

Hand holding during the Our Father was never seen nor even thought of until when? 30 years ago, maybe? But making the sign of the cross at the penitential rite is a carryover from an earlier form, albeit misplaced because of the deletion of the second prayer of absolution. So the hand olidng is a novelty, but crossing oneself has been handed down.
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I will add another tweak. Holding hands somtimes intrudes in the person sitting next to you…Crossing yourself will for the most part go unnoticed. Handholding has a potential to oblige the person next to you to do somthing they may not want to do. Which may in turn cause great anger in them. And if by chance they are having a bad day the anger could be in the form of a emotional explosion which could lead to the person cracking enough to spray the congregation with an UZI maiming and killing many…inlcuding the priest…which will add to the priest shortage which in turn will fan the flames the women ordainers camp.

The whole thing resulting in one less priest, one less Mass, and one less event of supernatural grace spread into the world…

whats next you say…??? The complete collapse of society.😃

THIS whole topic should NOT be taken lightly;)
 
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