Gesture during the penitential rite

[brotherhrolf]

My poor benighted Louisiana - at last we get something right.
Yes, we still do this down here - or to be more precise - we never stopped. Same thing goes for the sign of the cross made with your thumb on your forehead (the words of the Lord be in my head), you lips(and upon my lips), and your heart (and in my heart) after the Gospel acclamation. We still do that too.

Hand holding during the Lord’s Prayer is something far more recent. It started in the late 80s and is by no means a universal. Diocesan visitors to my cathedral parish are astonished when their attempts to link hands are met with hands folded in prayer. What is accepted in other parishes is not actually the norm.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

As Mercygate said, this gesture comes from the older form of the Mass. I think that some people who were accustomed to making the Sign of the Cross have continued and others who have seen them have picked it up. I don’t think it really has a meaning since we’re not receiving absolution as we do during confession, but it doesn’t hurt anything. I would put it in the same class as holding your hands out as you say “and also with you.”

Thank you. You just saved us about 250 posts on this thread.

But one more tweak.

Hand holding during the Our Father was never seen nor even thought of until when? 30 years ago, maybe? But making the sign of the cross at the penitential rite is a carryover from an earlier form, albeit misplaced because of the deletion of the second prayer of absolution. So the hand olidng is a novelty, but crossing oneself has been handed down.

That is the distinction I was going to point out, too. This sign of the cross is something that never stopped. Hand-holding is something that never was - until a few decades ago, when the bishops also tried to resist it until they gave up on the issue. They are both things not regulated by the rubrics, but we shouldn’t lump them into the same category because they have distinctly different characters.

 

[otjm]

Thank you. You just saved us about 250 posts on this thread.

But one more tweak.

Hand holding during the Our Father was never seen nor even thought of until when? 30 years ago, maybe? But making the sign of the cross at the penitential rite is a carryover from an earlier form, albeit misplaced because of the deletion of the second prayer of absolution. So the hand olidng is a novelty, but crossing oneself has been handed down.

I have a picture of a youth group in the timke frame of late 1964 to early 1966 in which people held hands during the Our Father. that makes it 40+.

And yes, the sign of the cross was done in the EF.

I was trying to play a bit of tongue-in-cheek with the whole bit, and my initial poit as to accepability has to do with how anal one is. All of the objections made to holding hands can be made to the sign of the cross. and all should have about the same amount of credibility.

Those who readily accept the sign of the cross but reject the hand holding are generally those who want to argue that one was at one time the rubrics and therefore it is ok, and the other wasn’t and therefore is not ok.

Both miss the point. It is my recollection (and it is a bit faded, I admit, and someone can correct me withouyt hurting my feelings) that in the EF at least at one point, the priest blessed us and we made the sign of the cross. Or perhaps it was that he made it and we did too. In any event, from a liturgical standpoint, neither are in the OF as a rubric, and since it is not covered at all (that is, there is not a direction as to the posture of hands, or any mention of the sign of the cross), it is not forbidden.

And given the issues that confront the Church today, one way of the other it really seems to pale in comparison.

 

[mercygate]

I have a picture of a youth group in the timke frame of late 1964 to early 1966 in which people held hands during the Our Father. that makes it 40+.

And yes, the sign of the cross was done in the EF.

I was trying to play a bit of tongue-in-cheek with the whole bit, and my initial poit as to accepability has to do with how anal one is. All of the objections made to holding hands can be made to the sign of the cross. and all should have about the same amount of credibility.

Those who readily accept the sign of the cross but reject the hand holding are generally those who want to argue that one was at one time the rubrics and therefore it is ok, and the other wasn’t and therefore is not ok.

Both miss the point. It is my recollection (and it is a bit faded, I admit, and someone can correct me withouyt hurting my feelings) that in the EF at least at one point, the priest blessed us and we made the sign of the cross. Or perhaps it was that he made it and we did too. In any event, from a liturgical standpoint, neither are in the OF as a rubric, and since it is not covered at all (that is, there is not a direction as to the posture of hands, or any mention of the sign of the cross), it is not forbidden.

And given the issues that confront the Church today, one way of the other it really seems to pale in comparison.

Holding hands for prayer during a youth group meeting isn’t the same thing as doing it during Mass. Not going on a rant here, just observing the point.

 

[sphilomena]

As others have said, it is a carry-over from the EF; since some us were raised in that time, we still do it at the appropriate words. What harm is there in the Sign of the Cross, yet I have heard of a priest who asked people not to do it because of uniformity! Give me a break! If they want uniformity, why don’t they ask everyone to be uniform in silence before Mass? Sorry, just venting at the absurdity.

 

[otjm]

Holding hands for prayer during a youth group meeting isn’t the same thing as doing it during Mass. Not going on a rant here, just observing the point.

It was a Mass.

 

[otjm]

As others have said, it is a carry-over from the EF; since some us were raised in that time, we still do it at the appropriate words. What harm is there in the Sign of the Cross, yet I have heard of a priest who asked people not to do it because of uniformity! Give me a break! If they want uniformity, why don’t they ask everyone to be uniform in silence before Mass? Sorry, just venting at the absurdity.

Aha! You got it!

 

[benedictgal]

I, too, have made the sign of the Cross during the Penitential rite. In fact, many of the folks at the Spanish Mass I sometimes attend make the Sign of the Cross as well.

Our parochial vicar bows as he faces the crucifix during the Penitential rite.