Get Ready to Rumble....Play Ball

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Jason Collins just announced that he is a gay basketball player and the stage is set…

smh.com.au/sport/basketball/collins-a-sinner-espn-reporter-speaks-out-over-gay-nba-star-20130501-2irtj.html
ESPN says that it regrets the “distraction” caused by one of its reporters who described Jason Collins as a sinner after the basketballer publicly revealed that he was gay.
Chris Broussard, who covers the NBA for ESPN, had said on the air that Collins and others in the NBA who engage in premarital sex or adultery were “walking in open rebellion to God, and to Jesus Christ”. Broussard, a former reporter for The New York Times, spoke during ESPN’s Outside the Lines program on Monday discussing Collins’ announcement.
I imagine that there will be many sports figures publically making their way to the microphone to declare their deviant behavior.

What will be interesting is what will happen to those that report, like Chris Broussard, will these people be purged from the Sports scence and elsewhere so that the media only carries the APA message…???

The only counseling should be for acceptance…and the message is accept this as normal

Abrogate your spiritual views for deviant behavior that is who you are…and we hear nothing of dissent about any of these…

Thoughts?
 
I think that what Brousard said was right. I think that ESPN handled it pretty well as well. They had to say something to appease their viewers, but they also did not overreact and run Brousard off of ESPN or suspend him or anything like that.

As to others coming out publicly, I am sure it will happen. I am hoping that there will be at least a few that will come out and say that they are gay but living a chaste lifestyle, though I doubt that will be the case. Most people that go public in a big way tend to do so because they are actively engaging in homosexual acts.
 
Jason Collins just announced that he is a gay basketball player and the stage is set…

smh.com.au/sport/basketball/collins-a-sinner-espn-reporter-speaks-out-over-gay-nba-star-20130501-2irtj.html

I imagine that there will be many sports figures publically making their way to the microphone to declare their deviant behavior.

What will be interesting is what will happen to those that report, like Chris Broussard, will these people be purged from the Sports scence and elsewhere so that the media only carries the APA message…???

The only counseling should be for acceptance…and the message is accept this as normal

Abrogate your spiritual views for deviant behavior that is who you are…and we hear nothing of dissent about any of these…

Thoughts?
Sin is now “good” and “good” is now sin.

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 5:20[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]2 Timothy 3:13[/BIBLEDRB]
 
Grace & Peace!
I imagine that there will be many sports figures publically making their way to the microphone to declare their deviant behavior.
Can you point out where he declared his deviant behavior? I read the Sports Illustrated article in which Mr. Collins “came out,” (after reading your comment here) and while there is plenty on the drift of his affections, there’s nothing very specific or revealing about what deviant sexual behaviors he gets up to. Maybe he mentioned those behaviors in a separate interview?

Or maybe you have a hard time separating attractions from behaviors and an easier time making assumptions about someone’s deviance? Or maybe your issue is with the language he used to describe his affections (“gay”) and you’re finding it difficult to move past your own associations with the word (which are likely not his) in order to charitably give him the benefit of the doubt?
Abrogate your spiritual views for deviant behavior that is who you are…and we hear nothing of dissent about any of these…
I have no idea what this string of words is supposed to mean, and subsequently no idea how it might relate to Mr. Collins. Maybe you can clarify?

Thanks.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
 
Perhaps this man ‘came out’ because all his colleagues were in the papers with beautiful girls on their arms and the pressure of having to conform with an ‘expected’ role for his gender was simply intolerable. Perhaps he ‘came out’ because he was fed up of the whispering behind his back… “What hasn’t he got a girlfriend?”, “Why doesn’t he go to these parties?”, “Why is he different?” Perhaps he ‘came out’ because he was pre-empting an ‘expose’?

Perhaps it’s no sports commentator’s business whether someone is gay or straight. Whether someone is committing adultery or not or sleeping with someone outside marriage has no bearing on how well they can shoot a hoop or kick a ball any more than their sexual orientation does.

A sports player’s sexual orientation, gay or straight, should have no bearing on their skill at their sport. Any sports commentator who pipes up with condemnation of a sportsman or woman’s off-pitch behaviour should shut up and concentrate on his job: he’s not a social commentator, nor is he paid to be anyone’s moral guardian.

Likewise, members of the public who buy magazines and newspapers or read websites that concentrate on paparazzi photographs of public figures and ‘news’ stories that probe into their private lives should be ashamed of themselves.

I am not interested in what my neighbors do in their bedroom. They could be swinging from the chandeliers for all I care. If they were famous and I found a journalist nosing around interested in their private lives, I’d tell that person to get very lost very fast.
 
Perhaps this man ‘came out’ because all his colleagues were in the papers with beautiful girls on their arms and the pressure of having to conform with an ‘expected’ role for his gender was simply intolerable. Perhaps he ‘came out’ because he was fed up of the whispering behind his back… “What hasn’t he got a girlfriend?”, “Why doesn’t he go to these parties?”, “Why is he different?” Perhaps he ‘came out’ because he was pre-empting an ‘expose’?

Perhaps it’s no sports commentator’s business whether someone is gay or straight. Whether someone is committing adultery or not or sleeping with someone outside marriage has no bearing on how well they can shoot a hoop or kick a ball any more than their sexual orientation does.

A sports player’s sexual orientation, gay or straight, should have no bearing on their skill at their sport. Any sports commentator who pipes up with condemnation of a sportsman or woman’s off-pitch behaviour should shut up and concentrate on his job: he’s not a social commentator, nor is he paid to be anyone’s moral guardian.

Likewise, members of the public who buy magazines and newspapers or read websites that concentrate on paparazzi photographs of public figures and ‘news’ stories that probe into their private lives should be ashamed of themselves.

I am not interested in what my neighbors do in their bedroom. They could be swinging from the chandeliers for all I care. If they were famous and I found a journalist nosing around interested in their private lives, I’d tell that person to get very lost very fast.
The player in question is awful…1.1 points per game…this is his only hope of keeping his name marketable.

The ESPN commentator was on a show that is set up to discuss a range of issues, on the periphery of sports…and he was asked his opinion. He didn’t do or say anything wrong.
 
Jason Collins just announced that he is a gay basketball player and the stage is set…

smh.com.au/sport/basketball/collins-a-sinner-espn-reporter-speaks-out-over-gay-nba-star-20130501-2irtj.html

I imagine that there will be many sports figures publically making their way to the microphone to declare their deviant behavior.

What will be interesting is what will happen to those that report, like Chris Broussard, will these people be purged from the Sports scence and elsewhere so that the media only carries the APA message…???

The only counseling should be for acceptance…and the message is accept this as normal

Abrogate your spiritual views for deviant behavior that is who you are…and we hear nothing of dissent about any of these…

Thoughts?
Coptic,
The NBA is going in the right direction by supporting gay marriage rights and equality for gays.

The fact that no NBA player has expressed dissent reflects that even black Americans are changing their views on the issue. (Magic Johnson’s son came out as gay recently as well, and the NBA supports his support for his son.) And even if a player does not dissent, they are pressured to be silent, as they will be fined heavily by the commissioner and lambasted by sports media. But so what? It is correct to use pressure tactics to prevent hate speech and discrimination.

Doc Rivers, coach of the Celtics, has analogized Jason Collins to Jackie Robinson in USA Today.

And honestly, whether someone is gay is no one’s business. If anything, it’s a tragedy that the male sports environment has been so unfriendly to gays for so long (but not the female sports environment).
 
Grace & Peace!

Can you point out where he declared his deviant behavior? I read the Sports Illustrated article in which Mr. Collins “came out,” (after reading your comment here) and while there is plenty on the drift of his affections, there’s nothing very specific or revealing about what deviant sexual behaviors he gets up to. Maybe he mentioned those behaviors in a separate interview?

Or maybe you have a hard time separating attractions from behaviors and an easier time making assumptions about someone’s deviance? Or maybe your issue is with the language he used to describe his affections (“gay”) and you’re finding it difficult to move past your own associations with the word (which are likely not his) in order to charitably give him the benefit of the doubt?

I have no idea what this string of words is supposed to mean, and subsequently no idea how it might relate to Mr. Collins. Maybe you can clarify?

Thanks.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
Mark,

in a few words…he came to the microphone as a Homosexual. You are as you know concerned about him speaking as if other than deviant. You are, I am sure, aware that homosexual behavior is deviant and as you know he did not come to the microphone and say…

I am Kevin Collins and have SSA now did he?
 
Coptic,
The NBA is going in the right direction by supporting gay marriage rights and equality for gays.

The fact that no NBA player has expressed dissent reflects that even black Americans are changing their views on the issue. (Magic Johnson’s son came out as gay recently as well, and the NBA supports his support for his son.) And even if a player does not dissent, they are pressured to be silent, as they will be fined heavily by the commissioner and lambasted by sports media. But so what? It is correct to use pressure tactics to prevent hate speech and discrimination.

Doc Rivers, coach of the Celtics, has analogized Jason Collins to Jackie Robinson in USA Today.

And honestly, whether someone is gay is no one’s business. If anything, it’s a tragedy that the male sports environment has been so unfriendly to gays for so long (but not the female sports environment).
Lobo,

Are you saying that Jackie Robinson was gay?
 
I don’t care whether or not he’s gay or suffers with same sex attraction in other words. I suffer from same sex attraction as well but I am primarily attracted to members of the opposite sex. I do, however, hope that he is chaste.
 
A sports player’s sexual orientation, gay or straight, should have no bearing on their skill at their sport. Any sports commentator who pipes up with condemnation of a sportsman or woman’s off-pitch behaviour should shut up and concentrate on his job: he’s not a social commentator, nor is he paid to be anyone’s moral guardian.

.
The sports person is the one talking about his sexual desires. One’s moral life is not separate from the rest of their life.
 
Lobo,

Are you saying that Jackie Robinson was gay?
Oh,

You are suggesting a simile.

Well then, where is the Branch Rickey?

As I see it, Jackie was a talented athlete that broke into Major League Baseball, with the aid of a man that saw that Robinson could play the game and make the game better.

Collins already was an NBA player, no one promoted him into something that he wasn’t already doing and now is apparently washed up and aging and gay.

I don’t see the simile.
 
The sports person is the one talking about his sexual desires. One’s moral life is not separate from the rest of their life.
Well,

To balance the scales we need a male or female athlete talking about how robust their normal sex lives are in a public forum.

Imagine…

That was a great fight you had there, it was tight in the 3rd round, but you came away with a choke hold and now you are ready for the title…do you want to talk us through this…

Yes…last night, you know I love my wife, she and I are normally attracted and my mind goes wild when I see her in a night dress…we have regular, normal consensual sex, the night before a fight and we are sexually attracted to each other as male and female and as I get ready for the fight I always imagine her nude…

then when I start fighting…
 
Well,

To balance the scales we need a male or female athlete talking about how robust their normal sex lives are in a public forum.
They do that all the time - they’re constantly in the newspapers flaunting themselves and their latest partners on their arms for the photographers.
 
They do that all the time -
they’re constantly in the newspapers flaunting themselves and their latest partners on their arms for the photographers.
I am truly dismayed…I wrote about a normal heterosexual man/wife experience, on a Catholic Forum where we believe that marriage is a sacrament, suggesting that in the context of a balance, we need a normal man/woman relationship that was bonded, united, continually positive in marriage…anyone reading through this will see…
**Imagine…
That was a great fight you had there, it was tight in the 3rd round, but you came away with a choke hold and now you are ready for the title…do you want to talk us through this…
Yes…last night, you know I love my wife, **she and I are normally attracted and my mind goes wild when I see her in a night dress…we have regular, normal consensual sex, the night before a fight and we are sexually attracted to each other as male and female and as I get ready for the fight I always imagine her nude…
then when I start fighting…
and out of this your mind conjours up latest partners…

How is it you construed this in a way it was not presented?

Do you see expressing normality as a problem?

What does this mean that you did not see the obvious?

What does this say about you?
 
Grace & Peace!
in a few words…he came to the microphone as a Homosexual.
That word “homosexual” clearly means different things to him and to you. For most people (including for Mr. Collins if his own words are any indication), “gay” and “homosexual” refer to anyone who is attracted to folks of the same sex, regardless of whether or not they have sexually acted on that attraction. To you, “gay” and “homosexual” refer to people who identify with their sexual behaviors. Insisting that Mr. Collins is describing himself and his sexuality in *your *terms rather than his own is delusional at best and indicative of a potentially rather sinister belief: that it is ultimately impossible for Mr. Collins to have a self-understanding separate from your understanding of him.

At least in this instance, Coptic, you are not being a very good witness to the attraction/behavior distinction the catechism makes. Perhaps the distinction is too politically inconvenient for you to make it consistently?
You are as you know concerned about him speaking as if other than deviant.
I would love for you to tell me what I already know, Coptic, but before I can confirm that what you’re saying is indeed truly what I know, I need to know what it is you’re saying. And I’m not sure I know what you’re saying here.

Are you saying that you assume that I’m concerned that Mr. Collins not present himself as deviant? If so, I was not, in fact, aware that that was my concern. My concern is that you are quick to characterize what he said in a very particular way that is not necessarily reflective of what he actually said.
You are, I am sure, aware that homosexual behavior is deviant and as you know he did not come to the microphone and say…

I am Kevin Collins and have SSA now did he?
Mr. Collins would likely not say, “I am Kevin Collins and have SSA,” for the following reasons:

1–He’s not Kevin Collins. He’s Jason Collins.
2–SSA is a term of art used and understood in a particular religio-political subculture which concerns itself with seeing same-sex attraction as a form of affliction, promotes some form of reparative therapy for same-sex attracted folks, and has it’s own pet definitions for words like “gay” and “homosexual” which would likely be unrecognizable to- or deemed inaccurate by most people to whom those alternative definitions are applied. That he did not use the term “SSA” means he does not belong to that subculture.

It should be noted that the omission in his discourse of a particular term of art (of which is probably not even aware) is no indication that he endorses, promotes or engages in any particular sexual activities which would be generally eschewed by those who do use that term of art.

Which is to say: simply because he does not use the words you would like him to use does not mean he is saying what you apparently would like to think he’s saying.
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CopticChristian:
To balance the scales we need a male or female athlete talking about how robust their normal sex lives are in a public forum.
And this is the point Coptic–in the Sports Illustrated article in which he “came out” he didn’t talk about his sex life. All talk about his sex life is purely conjectural on your part and comes from your own imagination.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
 
Grace & Peace!

That word “homosexual” clearly means different things to him and to you. For most people (including for Mr. Collins if his own words are any indication), “gay” and “homosexual” refer to anyone who is attracted to folks of the same sex, regardless of whether or not they have sexually acted on that attraction. To you, “gay” and “homosexual” refer to people who identify with their sexual behaviors. Insisting that Mr. Collins is describing himself and his sexuality in *your *terms rather than his own is delusional at best and indicative of a potentially rather sinister belief: that it is ultimately impossible for Mr. Collins to have a self-understanding separate from your understanding of him.

At least in this instance, Coptic, you are not being a very good witness to the attraction/behavior distinction the catechism makes. Perhaps the distinction is too politically inconvenient for you to make it consistently?

I would love for you to tell me what I already know, Coptic, but before I can confirm that what you’re saying is indeed truly what I know, I need to know what it is you’re saying. And I’m not sure I know what you’re saying here.

Are you saying that you assume that I’m concerned that Mr. Collins not present himself as deviant? If so, I was not, in fact, aware that that was my concern. My concern is that you are quick to characterize what he said in a very particular way that is not necessarily reflective of what he actually said.

Mr. Collins would likely not say, “I am Kevin Collins and have SSA,” for the following reasons:

1–He’s not Kevin Collins. He’s Jason Collins.
2–SSA is a term of art used and understood in a particular religio-political subculture which concerns itself with seeing same-sex attraction as a form of affliction, promotes some form of reparative therapy for same-sex attracted folks, and has it’s own pet definitions for words like “gay” and “homosexual” which would likely be unrecognizable to- or deemed inaccurate by most people to whom those alternative definitions are applied. That he did not use the term “SSA” means he does not belong to that subculture.

It should be noted that the omission in his discourse of a particular term of art (of which is probably not even aware) is no indication that he endorses, promotes or engages in any particular sexual activities which would be generally eschewed by those who do use that term of art.

Which is to say: simply because he does not use the words you would like him to use does not mean he is saying what you apparently would like to think he’s saying.

And this is the point Coptic–in the Sports Illustrated article in which he “came out” he didn’t talk about his sex life. All talk about his sex life is purely conjectural on your part and comes from your own imagination.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
Mark,

Too many words. Let us hold judgement as Mr. Collins provides further information as I would imagine he will. Homosexuality as deviant behavior requires no discussion. This discussion is not about SSA.
 
Grace & Peace!
Too many words.
I’m beginning to believe that this means, “I can’t be bothered to consider a point of view outside of my own.” My suspicion that your enterprise here is less religious/spiritual and more political and solipsistic is growing.
Let us hold judgement as Mr. Collins provides further information as I would imagine he will. Homosexuality as deviant behavior requires no discussion. This discussion is not about SSA.
It’s difficult for me to take your invitation to hold our judgment seriously, Coptic, particularly since you have already jumped to your own conclusions and have passed judgment. You come across as highly disingenuous.

Moreover, if homosexuality as deviant behavior requires no discussion, and if this discussion here is not about SSA, what are you discussing given that Mr. Collins hasn’t (to my knowledge) talked about his deviant sexual behaviors which (after all) require no discussion? What is this thread about, then?

I’ll say it again: My suspicion that your enterprise here is less religious/spiritual and more political and solipsistic is growing.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
 
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