Get Rid of the Celibacy Requirement

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pnewton said:
In 2002 there were about 28 Catholic priests (of 68 clergy) who had been convicted of child abuse, of about 38,000 priests.
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Even assuming that statistic is valid, it is misleading to use it as an indication of the level of abuse that has occurred within the US RCC.

For example, many of these predators have multiple accusers, the Bishop who was in charge of the diocese in which I attended Catholic K-12 had over 30 accusers.

There were rumors of abuse and bad behavior of clergy running rampant throughout that diocese, but nothing ever went to the civil courts - such is the rot that occurs when bad people occupy positions of power.
These predators are not preying on one victim before they “Go forth to sin no more”.

Also, how many victims have not yet come forward?
Most will not immediately, and several states impose a statute of limitations on reporting these abuses.

The latest scandals have revealed the Church’s organized efforts to silence victims through monetary settlements in exchange for non-disclosure agreements. Settlements do not result in convictions.

We may never know how many abuse cases were reported to the Church and went nowhere, but this seems plausible given the latest reports.
 
I’m a Protestant so my view on the celibacy requirement is obvious but I consistently pointed out in other threads that getting rid of it in the name of preventing future abuse does nothing to prevent abuse.
I came across this and I’m sure plenty will be interested. Emphasis mine.
Those who want the Church to ordain married men to the priesthood of the Latin Church are seizing the moment to promote their cause, but eliminating vows of celibacy wouldn’t undo the abuse crisis of last century or increase the Church’s transparency with respect to the scandals. Moreover, when we look at recent rather than historical data, we see priestly celibacy correlated with what appears to be a much lower rate of reported sexual abuse than is seen in many public school districts and other institutions that serve youth. So “to prevent further abuse” is not the most logical argument that advocates of a married priesthood can advance at this moment, although it has obvious appeal to our emotions.

Other arguments for eliminating priestly of celibacy are still viable. For example, admitting married men to the diocesan priesthood in the Latin Church could alleviate the priest shortage. If Rome took that measure, it might still retain the tradition of celibacy for bishops, as in Eastern Orthodox churches. Religious orders might also keep their requirement that members be celibate. Monastic orders in particular would almost have to. Celibacy to some degree has always had a place of honor among traditional Christians, West and East, as well as in other religions. You don’t have to be a Tibetan Buddhist to admire the asceticism of the Dalai Lama.
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www.nationalreview.com

Priestly Celibacy and the Sex-Abuse Crisis | National Review

“As a survey researcher who has studied Catholic reactions to news of allegations of clergy sexual abuse of minors since 2002, I have noticed that there is a detail about the crisis that seems to g…
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com
 
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glencor63 said:
Have you seen this website? Please look at this list. The numbers are much greater than 28.

http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbydiocese.html
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Thank you so much for sharing this, what I learned from this link has led to a re-examination of my Catholic K-12 experience.
I initially thought that your 50% statistic regarding failed celibacy/chastity in the priesthood was too low based on my experiences, and now I know why.

While attending Catholic university, I recall learning that our jovial former bishop, who I had known most of my life, had “an accuser”.
I was shocked at the time because the man was so kind and well-liked (not at all the “creepy” type), so I didn’t believe it.
Growing up, when we visited the Cathedral, he would always give the students full-sized candy bars and invite us to come back and visit him anytime (in hindsight, this sickens me).
He was very involved throughout our Confirmation preparation, popping in often to quiz the class.
After following the link that you shared, I learned that he’s had over 30 accusers spanning decades - my heart sank!
It was hard to locate his name on the website, since he was listed as being two diocese away (where the Church moved him after the initial accusations came out).
Much of my life I’ve struggled to come to terms with the widespread bad behavior of the clergy assigned to that diocese, and now I know that the rot came from the top.
I now believe that, due to the compromised nature of this predator bishop, our diocese became a “dumping ground” for problem priests.
All of the excessive punishment of students, abuses of power, misuse of finances, failures to be chaste, alcoholism, inappropriate contact with students, grooming, etc. now all makes sense.
I cannot understate the harm that this “culture of rot” can have on the faith of a diocese.
The net effect is the spiritual equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb - many souls lost, and those remaining are forever damaged.
Most who graduated from my Catholic high school have since left the Church, I remained because I refused to let the failures of men keep me from God.
We need to root out these bastions of evil within the Church before they drag us all into the pit, and it’s going to take an army of lay persons and sympathetic clergy to win.
I believe that married deacons, if elevated to the priesthood, would be strong allies in this fight (I know that I would!)
 
it’s just wrong! and even though it was a commandment, it was especially addressed to Adam and Eve. When we do not obey a command then we have committed a sin. And in this case Jesus, Mary and Joseph would have sinned for not having procreated.
Procreation makes us closer to the animal world (which we are obliged to leave at term) than to the angelic world (which is the end of our mission)
 
Cruciferi said:
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AlNg:
And one of his commandments was to Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it,
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Somehow that didn’t make the list of Ten given to Moses.
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That is because it is not a commandment. It was a commandment. Specifically, he told this to Adam, because, you know, the world was empty; and to Noah, ditto.
 
He was celibate, until he married. He left the priesthood because he realized he did not have a charism of celibacy. He also knew firsthand of the systemic abuse and impending crisis in the priesthood. Incidentally, he remained married nearly 50 years, until his death in August.
 
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StandUp4Truth said:
Even assuming that statistic is valid, it is misleading to use it as an indication of the level of abuse that has occurred within the US RCC.
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Absolutely it was misleading, if you thought I was trying to say it represented the whole of the problem of sexual abuse. I even said it was meaningless, but as meaningless as the other report by the nun-marrying monk.
pnewton said:
This database is of a vague "publicly accused number, with is as meaningless as the 28 convictions, in this discussion.
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What difference does it make if he married or not? He had NO vocation to the priesthood!! His wife had NO vocation to religious life!! I wish other priests and religious left when they realized they had NO vocation. This desperation to hold on to people that clearly have no vocation to the priesthood or religious life is one the main causes of the abuse crisis. If anything, Richard Sipe should have been encouraged and allowed (If he so desired) to change rites, so he could continue to be a priest and also marry. He obviously had a vocation to marriage because he was married nearly 50 years. She was at his bedside when he died in August.
 
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in truth, the “charisma” of celibacy does not exist. Otherwise what would homosexuals who do not have this “charisma” do? they would therefore be condemn to Hell?
One can have a very great difficulty living in celibacy certainly, but this difficulty is not an impossibility. Indeed, if we really want to overcome this difficulty, with the grace of God, we will certainly achieve it.
The truth is that some people simply do not want to sacrifice their desire for human affection for God.
 
Many asexuals have the charism of celibacy. Some asexuals have no sexual desire or instinct for pair bonding.
 
Mboo said:
Procreation makes us closer to the animal world (which we are obliged to leave at term) than to the angelic world (which is the end of our mission)
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But Aristotle says (Ethic. viii, 12) that “man is an animal more inclined by nature to connubial than political society.” IOW, unlike celibacy, marriage is of the natural law.
SeriousQuestion said:
Jesus didn’t do that.
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God ordained marriage in Paradise Gen 1:28 God said Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. He confirmed it by his word: Matt 19:6 What God has joined together, let no man put asunder. He honored marriage by his presence Matt 25:10 They that were ready went in with Him to the marriage. He magnified it by a miracle- the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made into wine.
 
so according to you only the asexuals should be priests? since the marriage of a priest was justified by saying that he did not have the “charisma” for celibacy
 
all that is true. No one has denied the sanctity of marriage. But according to Jesus himself there is intrinsically no advantage in getting married, it is in this sense that he has admitted the superiority of celibacy over marriage.
 
glencor63 said:
What difference does it make if he married or not?
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Confirmation bias. It is a serious problem when using statistics.
glencor63 said:
This desperation to hold on to people that clearly have no vocation to the m priesthood or religious life is one the main causes of the abuse crisis.
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Still going on about that? People abuse children because they are child abusers.
AlNg said:
He honored marriage by his presence Matt 25:10
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And he demonstrated celibacy by his life. So? No one is denying that marriage is honorable.
 
AlNg said:
But Aristotle says (Ethic. viii, 12) that “man is an animal more inclined by nature to connubial than political society.” IOW, unlike celibacy, marriage is of the natural law.
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the finality of man is to have a supernatural life, it is not to settle in the natural life. And in the supernatural life there is no sex, no procreation. Those who live in celibacy because of God therefore already have a head start on those in need of marriage and procreation.
 
goout said:
Chastity is not the same thing as celibacy. All people are called to chastity, including married people. Chastity is well integrated sexuality, whether one is celibate or married.
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You’re 100% right of this. I meant to say celibacy, but my hands wrote “chastity.” I understand chastity is for those within marriage who are sexual with each other too.

Totally my mistake for saying “chastity” when I meant celibacy.
 
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