Get your kids out of government schools

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Gertabelle said:
Articles like this one just tick me off.
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Me too!

Not only am I a public school teacher, but I also have a child with special needs. The vast major of private schools and charter school are not equipped to handle special needs children.
 
Increased economy of scale resulting from more interest (higher demand). If “free” public schools were not an option, 100% - as opposed to say 5% - of parents would suddenly be in the market. It’s analogous to any high-end niche market compared to a company like walmart, which everyone uses.
 
Socrates92 said:
Increased economy of scale resulting from more interest (higher demand). If “free” public schools were not an option, 100% - as opposed to say 5% - of parents would suddenly be in the market. It’s analogous to any high-end niche market compared to a company like walmart, which everyone uses.
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And what about those who cannot afford tuition? And do you honestly believe that the super elite academies that already exist would suddenly start lowering their tuition rates? That’s fairy tale thinking there. They don’t charge $20-30K a year because they offer such excellent amenities. They charge that much to exclude the middle and lower classes, to create a space for the wealthy to be separate.

And as long as we’re entertaining your fairy tale, what about the salary for teachers? Do you really think private companies would be willing to offer competitive salaries to attract and keep the best and the brightest people? No, they’d lower their pay scales to increase their profit margin.

I have taught in a Title 1 school for fifteen years. These families do, in fact, live in poverty. So how exactly are they supposed to pay for their children’s education? Or do you support a system where only those who can afford to pay for schooling actually get to send their children to school? And the rest do what – work in factories from the age of five? Or maybe run wild at home or in the streets while mom and dad work?

I’ll be the first to admit that the public school system in the US has its problems, but the proposition that all would be well if this absolutely enormous system were just privatized is so completely laughable, I can’t imagine how any educated person could seriously suggest it.
 
I still don’t see how that makes teacher salaries lower… There is going to be a minimum tuition. No way around that. Compared to free, that’s still an increase that some households won’t be able to afford.

For the record, I don’t want teacher salaries lowered - they need to be increased. Just making a point that there’s a baseline expenditure.
 
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So are Catholic schools - explicitly by design compared to public schools - yet many children come out of them without the indoctrination. The reason: parents, society, peers, and a list of other factors that have little-to-no connection to the school.
 
We are considering pulling our kids from public school to homeschool, but the reasons have less to do with them being run “by the government” and instead the cultural ideas that have become so prevalent. Our school is a “good” school by metrics of test scores etc, but I have major problems with their methods of instruction (lots and lots of screen time, and the expectation of more screen time at home) and the inclusion of some weird New Age-y stuff. When you combine this with the fierce competitiveness between parents and heavy secularism, and the fact that I simply just miss my kids when they’re away, homeschool becomes very attractive.

I don’t have an inherent problem with the notion of public education. But it is true that some highly politicized administrators and school boards are agenda pushers. I’ve been a public school teacher and I tried hard, and I have admired several of my children’s teachers, too. But often, hands are tied by administrators, and schooling becomes as much of a bureaucratic mess as anything else. I’ve reached a point where I think if I have to watch the school this carefully, and spend at least 15 hours a week with my second grader outside of school hours doing school work with him, I might as well teach him myself, and have a lot more say over the content and how it’s delivered.
 
Exactly. A child who has been raised with solid Catholic teaching, who knows that questions/ideas/reason are all acceptable conversation at home, a child who has been taught critical thinking from the crib, they go into the world (be it secular or private school) with the proper tools.

Public schools are not some uniform franchise. They are operated by your local school board. Do not expect a secular school to give preference to your religious or political views, however, the big scary school that crucifies Catholic students is a myth. Know the parent handbook. Know the law.

Parents who cannot afford private school, who do not have the income to afford home school, would want to be involved in the public school board. Attend the meetings, run for a seat. Remember that the secular school is going to treat the Muslim kid, the Jewish kid, the Catholic kid, the Atheist kid, all equally. If you are not okay with that, then, you will be unhappy with public schools.
 
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You were lucky you had parents capable of homeschooling, if it indeed worked for you.

I’ve seen it go good and bad and bad is more difficult to repair

Jim
 
This is false.

If government education is abolished the price of tuition at Catholic and secular private schools will sky rocket, because the demand will overwhelm the supply.

Only those politically connected(yes even in Catholic Schools) will get their kids into those better institutions.

We’ll see high rates if illiteracy among society and a wider divide between the have’s and have not’s.

Eliminating public education is a horrible idea. There is a reason for it’s existence and soceity is far better with an educated populace than an ignorant one.

Jim
 
The diocesan Catholic High School in my area costs $6000 per year.

The dioceses use to make a donation for parents who are registered in a parish and support that parish, but no longer.

Either way, the high-school is full and only the elite with high grades are now being accepted, unless they’re minority students

The same is true for the charter school. It’s full.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
There is a reason for it’s existence and soceity is far better with an educated populace than an ignorant one.
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I think you can make an argument, though, that a high school diploma does not necessarily mean you are educated. Many high school graduates today are barely literate.
 
When compulsory education in the US was being debated in the early/mid-19th c, Catholics were against it— because, by its nature, public schooling was atheistic/agnostic by default. And Catholicism wasn’t just an hour on Sunday; it was a whole worldview and lifestyle. Which is why they took such trouble to create their own parochial schools.

From an 1852 editorial in the Boston Catholic newspaper, The Pilot 🙂
The general principle upon which these laws are based is radically unsound, untrue, Atheistical… It is, that the education of children is not the work of the Church, or of the Family, but that it is the work of the State… Two consequences flow from this principle… In the matter of education, the State is supreme over the Church and the Family. Hence , the State can and does exclude from the schools religious instruction… The inevitable consequence is, that… the greater number of scholars must turn out to be Atheists, and accordingly the majority of non-Catholics are people of no religion…

The other consequence… leads the State to adopt the child, to weaken the ties which bind it to the parent. So laws are made compelling children to attend the state schools, and forbidding the parents, if they be poor, to withdraw their little ones from the school… The consequence of this policy is… universal disobedience on the part of children… Our little boys scoff at their parents, call their fathers by the name of Old Man, Boss, or Governor. The mother is the Old Woman. The little boys smoke, drink, blaspheme, talk about fornication, and so far as they are physically able, commit it. Our little girls read novels… quarrel about their beaux, uphold Woman’s Rights, and-- … We were a Boston school boy, and we speak of what we know.
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The more things change, the more things stay the same! 🙂
 
Add to this, there are towns with no Catholic nor secular private school. Towns where Catholic School only goes to 6th or 8th grade. Would education simply at 6th grade?
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The diocesan Catholic High School in my area costs $6000 per year.
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Our diocesan Catholic high schools cost over $11,000 per year. That was never going to happen for us. So my son’s in an extremely liberal charter school, which gives us lots of fodder for good conversation, and he’s happy as a clam at this place. 😃👍
 
How about instead of pulling your kids out of public school you choose to engage the school administration?

Public school is and forever will be the best engine of social mobility in the country. We should do everything we can to strengthen it.
 
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I see this exaggeration all the time.

There will always be underachievers in a school system. Catholic schools just kick them out.

However, most graduates from high-school are not illiterate and are a lot smarter than portrayed.

Jim
 
midori said:
When compulsory education in the US was being debated in the early/mid-19th c, Catholics were against it— because, by its nature, public schooling was atheistic/agnostic by default. And Catholicism wasn’t just an hour on Sunday; it was a whole worldview and lifestyle. Which is why they took such trouble to create their own parochial schools.

From an 1852 editorial in the Boston Catholic newspaper, The Pilot 🙂
The general principle upon which these laws are based is radically unsound, untrue, Atheistical… It is, that the education of children is not the work of the Church, or of the Family, but that it is the work of the State… Two consequences flow from this principle… In the matter of education, the State is supreme over the Church and the Family. Hence , the State can and does exclude from the schools religious instruction… The inevitable consequence is, that… the greater number of scholars must turn out to be Atheists, and accordingly the majority of non-Catholics are people of no religion…

The other consequence… leads the State to adopt the child, to weaken the ties which bind it to the parent. So laws are made compelling children to attend the state schools, and forbidding the parents, if they be poor, to withdraw their little ones from the school… The consequence of this policy is… universal disobedience on the part of children… Our little boys scoff at their parents, call their fathers by the name of Old Man, Boss, or Governor. The mother is the Old Woman. The little boys smoke, drink, blaspheme, talk about fornication, and so far as they are physically able, commit it. Our little girls read novels… quarrel about their beaux, uphold Woman’s Rights, and-- … We were a Boston school boy, and we speak of what we know.
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That article is hilarious! 😂

“Our little girls are reading novels.”

Oh, the horror!

And “the majority of non-Catholics are people of no religion.” I think the Protestants might have argued that point.

And “our little boys… call their fathers by the name of Old Man, Boss, or Governor. The mother is the Old Woman.”

I suppose even in 1852 it was the school’s fault that parents raised their children to be disrespectful brats. 😠 From an early age, my son knew my “look of death” if he said something inappropriate, and he never did it again.
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Our local public school is pretty diverse. I like to think we add to that diverseness by having our Catholic children attend there.

We also don’t rely solely on schools (public or private) to educate our children or teach them how to think. We work on that at home as parents.
 
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