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fhansen
Guest
Anger at a person who, say, molests a child, is a proper-and sane- reaction. We are to judge them as wrong. And Christianity allows that a persons decisions-they’re continuous willful disobedience-can ultimately condemn them. But we’re not to condemn them. In fact, we’re to love them, and extend the offer of forgiveness/reconciliation-always a way out if they’re contrite enough to accept it. It’s a fine line in a way-but I believe it’s the one Jesus walked.
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RedDuke50
Guest
Thank you for the answers. So I guess it is a sin to be mad at someone no matter what they did, right? But you are allowed to be mad at an action or object or something.
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JRKH
Guest
Lets be careful about changing terms. We are talking about anger.
My mom use to say (correcting our grammar) that “dogs get mad, people get angry”.
Anyway - yes. The old adage, hate the sin, love the sinner holds true.
Of course there is also that matter of how to handle an unrepentant sinner who has, does and likely will continue to hurt you in some manner. While we must not hate, that does not mean we must be a door mat for them either.
Peace
James
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fred_conty
Guest
This is from the encyclopedia on this site.
“Anger, the desire of vengeance. Its ethical rating depends upon the quality of the vengeance and the quantity of the passion. When these are in conformity with the prescriptions of balanced reason, anger is not a sin. It is rather a praiseworthy thing and justifiable with a proper zeal…”
This was taken from the Summa.
“Anger, the desire of vengeance. Its ethical rating depends upon the quality of the vengeance and the quantity of the passion. When these are in conformity with the prescriptions of balanced reason, anger is not a sin. It is rather a praiseworthy thing and justifiable with a proper zeal…”
This was taken from the Summa.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
How you reached that conclusion is rather amazing, considering the responses you received. Anger is a human emotion. God gave us all of our emotions, there is nothing sinful about any of them. Would you say that sadness is a sin? That is a human emotion too. Anger is a GOOD emotion when we are being hurt by someone - it says, “I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS ACTION!” It helps us to draw boundaries and protect ourselves from evil.
Acting OUT on the anger is different. Sin can come from anger. Someone could get angry at another person, go to their workplace, and shoot them. THAT would be the sin. Or, on a milder level, I could be angry at someone for a perceived injury, and hold a grudge against them for 40 years. That would be sinful. It is what you DO with the anger that might be a sin.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
I believe this definition is in error (as rarely as Aquinas is ever in error!). Anger is not always the desire of vengeance. Anger can help us to stop injustice, as Jesus did in the temple, and with the Pharisees. Was there vengeance in what Jesus did? No, he merely responded correctly to injustice and sin. Does an abused wife act out of vengeance when she finally feels anger and leaves her husband, and gets a protective order against him so he can’t hurt her any more? No, that is merely self-protection.
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fred_conty
Guest
Vengence - is the return of an injury for an injury as in retribution. (Websters dictionary 1990)
Anger - is hostile feelings because of opposition, a hurt, etc. (Websters dictionary 1990)
Drive - is to force to go. (Websters dictionary1990)
Jesus, because the peddlars were dishonoring his Father’s house, sought controlled vengence by “Making a whip out of some cord, he DROVE them (sellers) out of the Temple, cattle and sheep as well, SCATTERING the money changers’ coins, KNOCKING their tables over, …” (Jn 2:15)
Notice he made a WHIP and DROVE (forced) them out.
Could it be that he is returning to them what they gave to his Father’s house? Dishonor, or
injury for injury. Notice too, the dishonor was not to him, but to his Father which he would
not tolerate. He was hurt by their disrespect to the one He loved.
Anger - is hostile feelings because of opposition, a hurt, etc. (Websters dictionary 1990)
Drive - is to force to go. (Websters dictionary1990)
Jesus, because the peddlars were dishonoring his Father’s house, sought controlled vengence by “Making a whip out of some cord, he DROVE them (sellers) out of the Temple, cattle and sheep as well, SCATTERING the money changers’ coins, KNOCKING their tables over, …” (Jn 2:15)
Notice he made a WHIP and DROVE (forced) them out.
Could it be that he is returning to them what they gave to his Father’s house? Dishonor, or
injury for injury. Notice too, the dishonor was not to him, but to his Father which he would
not tolerate. He was hurt by their disrespect to the one He loved.
Just a thought. What do you think?
“A time for war, and a time for peace.” Old Testament
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JRKH
Guest
I think that we are called to a higher standard than vengeance.
I also think that the effort to justify anger is a dangerous thing that can be used for all sorts of evil.
The passage of Jesus and the temple could easily be used to justify burning abortion clinics. After all, where is the difference if no one is hurt?
Jesus drove out the money changers and overturned their tables scattering and destroying their business and their profits (that they were legally engaged in, because, as you say they were dishonoring God.
Burning an abortion clinic destroys a business and removes the profit from a business that is legally functioning but likewise is dishonoring God.
NOTE ::: I am not advocating the action described above. I am merely using this as an example of the kind of logic (or not) that can be derived from equating “righteous anger” with the sort of action Jesus took.
We are commanded to Love one another. To be glad when we are persecuted. To pray for our enemies. And to forgive wrongs done to us.
I find this view to be much more likely to keep me close to God than trying to determine what is or is not proper anger.
Peace
James
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Lucky10279
Guest
You think just having a feeling is sinful? What we do with our anger can be sinful. Anger can be good sometimes. Like if someone is saying bad things about the faith, which makes you angry and that anger encourages you to speak up. seriously, sometimes we can’t help but feel angry, just like sometimes we can’t help but feel sad, surprised ect.
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Lucky10279
Guest
We should try not to get too angry, but
it’s ok to be angry at someone like if they were mean or something, but it’s not ok to try to get revenge, or think bad thoughts about that person. I think we are confusing the actual anger itself and what we choose to do because of anger. I guess if you let yourself get angry for no reason, or at someone for doing something they had a right to do then that could be sinful. But seriously anger is not always sinful.
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JRKH
Guest
I agree that anger, as an emotion, must be dealt with. Like other bodily functions, it’s going to happen. However, like any other thought or emotion, it’s what we do after the “emotive reaction” that determines sinfulness. If we dwell on, encourage or otherwise harbor anger, whether it is acted upon or not, it is sinful.
As soon as our reasoning mind and (Christian soul) is able to assert itself we must quickly squelch our feelings of anger so that a Christian and reasoned response to the issue can be determined and implemented.
Look at your example. Someone says something about the faith that angers you and, “encourages you to speak up”. But where do you speak from? Do you speak from anger? How will that sound and in what light will a witness from anger show the faith?
On the other hand, if the anger is squelched and a calm, reasoned, charitable answer is response, how will that sound and what light will that show the faith?
This is the reason that I reject the idea that Christ was angry at the temple. This was no action based on anger. If it was it would mean that He was harboring this Anger for at least 3 years since surely He had been to the Temple many times and seen this.
It was a well thought out, measured response that was also designed to fulfill a prophesy and elicit a response from the High Priests.
Zeal, Yes. Anger, No.
Peace
James
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Lucky10279
Guest
I think it depends. In your example that might be a good idea. Yes, we shouldn’t harbor anger for too long. But if as soon as we start to feel angry about something we push it away, and hold everything in that’s not good either.
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JRKH
Guest
It’s not my example but yours. And frankly - if you want to properly display the Christian faith, it IS a good idea not to respond in anger.
it’s not about “pushing away” or “holding everything in”, it’s about gaining control and redirecting our feelings and efforts into more Christian, Loving and productive avenues.
There are many other emotions that can help to dissipate anger.
Again using your example…Instead of being “Angry”, fell “sorry” for the person and be “disappointed” that the person is so obviously misinformed or spiritually injured.
Peace
James
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John7
Guest
I agree at the temple it doesn’t say he got angry, but he did get angry, at least once…
Mark 3
1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
and also there is
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
sometimes I get angry :banghead:, but I try not to vent
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Lucky10279
Guest
Fine my example. I already said it would be a good idea in that case. I agree that we should usually try to control it, like I said before refusing to control it can be sinful. The anger itself is not sinful though unless we deliberately harbor it for a long period of time.
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JRKH
Guest
See this is where we fallen (stiff necked) humans (most assuredly including myself) keep trying to fudge the line.
It’s not that we should “usually” try to control it, we need to always try to to control it. Love is our Goal. Anger is antithesis to love therefore (towards people) it is bad and therefore needs to be controlled.
The command is to Love your neighbor as yourself and also Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Peace
James
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fhansen
Guest
The only thing I might respond with is that, in a fallen world where evil exists, anger, in the right context, properly motivated and properly expressed, may well be an act of love. The problem is that the anger we usually encounter or experience ourselves is generally rage, often senseless or at least with little reason behind it. I think the case could be made that it might be sinful to not be angry in certain situations-related to a sin of omission coming from complacency or fear, perhaps. JMO
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Simpleton
Guest
Getting angry would not be considered a sin provided it’s just and constructive…I mean even Jesus got angry at the money changers in the temple. Booted those guys right out!Is it a sin to get angry at someone? Or is it just a sin when you become a monster with your fury? Some examples would be nice.
Thank you
Jesus:nunchuk:
Money changer :stretcher:
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fred_conty
Guest
“Making a whip out of some cord, he drove them out of the Temple, cattle and sheep
as well, scattering the money changers’ coins, knocking their tables over, …” (Jn 2:15)
If an independent non christian was shown the above passage, and I asked them if this
man was angry, what do you think they would say?
as well, scattering the money changers’ coins, knocking their tables over, …” (Jn 2:15)
If an independent non christian was shown the above passage, and I asked them if this
man was angry, what do you think they would say?
Just a thought. What do you think?
“A time for war, and a time for peace.” Old Testament- Status