Getting back to Family in our parishes

[carlsbad84]

As we continue to work towards increasing awareness of family and wanting to strengthen the family, especially in our Catholic communities, one piece of awareness that I’ve had recently is that our actions run counter to that goal.

What I mean by that is if we look at how we educate our parish community, we pull our kids away from their families, separate them by grade and run them through a secular school model. Similarly, most of the parishes I’ve been a part of practice a form of family separation by having “youth” masses. (that’s a topic unto itself)

In my humble opinion, if we really want to create a family model that builds and strengthens the family unit, shouldn’t we look at a different model? If we truly believe that the family unit is one of the core foundations in our communities, and if we truly believe that the parents are the primary educators, why don’t we come up with a model that provides the parents with the tools they need to educate their youth and do that education in a family environment? Why don’t we stop trying to entertain our youth and encourage families to attend Mass together as a family unit?

I believe that if we did that, what we’d find is improved family ties, improved resources for families who are struggling, improved networking for parents and a stronger community.

Your thoughts?

 

[kozlosap]

As an educator of teenagers, I can safely assert that teen masses meet a real need for the kids. When they are actively participating and helping plan a mass, there is much more buy-in. Most families with young children at our huge Jesuit parish attend mass together unless they have a toddler who wants to act like a toddler! Even though our church was built in the mid sixties, there is no crying room, so parents have the option of taking their kids outside or up into the bride’s dressing room where there just happens to have a speaker installed.

 

[pianistclare]

Whole family catechesis is the new “thing” being promoted.

My 2 cents as an educator:

1. I seriously doubt that many families will partake. I say this because the vast majority drop their kids off at formation and speed away. To shop, run errands, do chores, watch sports, whatever.
2. Where to hold such gatherings? Where can you regularly use a space that will hold one or two children, 2 parents, times say…25 families? Does your parish have classrooms that big? Meeting in homes means breaking the units up into fairly small groups. What happens when the hosting family has an illness? What happens when the conversations get so sidetracked that the parents are debating and the kids dissolve into boredom?
3. Who will lead these groups? As DRE I can’t be in 12 homes/rec rooms/community centers at once. Will trained catechists come forward and give up a weeknight?
4. For as many people who dislike the time that classes are being offered right now, I think it would be pretty hard to get 20 or 25 sets of 2nd grade parents to agree on a night that’s good for everyone.
5. If you have access to a school…it could work. Unfortunately in our case, the Catholic school charges a fee per classroom per usage. It’s a better use of parish funds to rent a whole day (Sunday) for a one time fee of $700 per weekend with traditional classes than to pay subdivision center fees weekly.

The only model I have seen around her that really works is this:
One parish nearby holds family catechesis once a month. They come, have Mass, eat breakfast together (volunteers are called in to cook for everyone, I’m guessing the food cost comes out of the budget), the regular catechists teach one grade each, and they stay until noon. They have a huge facility, big classrooms, technology, enough chairs, and a professional kitchen and dining room.

We just don’t have the space.

Another option that they do, is they offer an all-day 2 week religious ed immersion camp in the summer. If your kid attends, they’re " done" for the year. I really don’t like this idea.
We have a hard enough time getting whole families to come to Sunday Mass. I can’t imagine how many would consider themselves “done” with Sunday Mass as well.

Of course, there are always the wonderful, faithful families. They keep the parish going and growing. They are the volunteers, the givers, the participants in liturgy.

There are some people who would really welcome whole family catechesis, but I’m not convinced that it would be that well attended. I wish I were. On paper, it sounds fantastic and full of possibilities. We’ve seriously looked into it. We determined it could cost the parish a whole lot more, and most of our catechists would quit. They don’t want to teach the adults, and don’t think the adults would want to sit in on a “kid-centered” class.
Indeed, it takes a special person to make these things accessible and interesting to all ages. When I reflect on the often daunting task of finding qualified catechists for RCIA…

Anxious to read other responses.

 

[Xantippe]

As an educator of teenagers, I can safely assert that teen masses meet a real need for the kids. When they are actively participating and helping plan a mass, there is much more buy-in. Most families with young children at our huge Jesuit parish attend mass together unless they have a toddler who wants to act like a toddler! Even though our church was built in the mid sixties, there is no crying room, so parents have the option of taking their kids outside or up into the bride’s dressing room where there just happens to have a speaker installed.

Noooo!

 

[pianistclare]

We can’t get ANYONE to volunteer for our nursery…the lone person who expressed a willingness to crank it up again (because she really NEEDS it) said that she or her husband would provide coverage twice a month IF we could get the Mass piped in over a speaker.
No can do. Firewall. Sigh.
It’s a problem.

 

[Xantippe]

As we continue to work towards increasing awareness of family and wanting to strengthen the family, especially in our Catholic communities, one piece of awareness that I’ve had recently is that our actions run counter to that goal.

What I mean by that is if we look at how we educate our parish community, we pull our kids away from their families, separate them by grade and run them through a secular school model. Similarly, most of the parishes I’ve been a part of practice a form of family separation by having “youth” masses. (that’s a topic unto itself)

In my humble opinion, if we really want to create a family model that builds and strengthens the family unit, shouldn’t we look at a different model? If we truly believe that the family unit is one of the core foundations in our communities, and if we truly believe that the parents are the primary educators, why don’t we come up with a model that provides the parents with the tools they need to educate their youth and do that education in a family environment? Why don’t we stop trying to entertain our youth and encourage families to attend Mass together as a family unit?

I believe that if we did that, what we’d find is improved family ties, improved resources for families who are struggling, improved networking for parents and a stronger community.

Your thoughts?

1. Families that care do attend Mass together to the best of their ability. However, sometimes (no, often!) there’s illness or some sort of scheduling oddity and it’s not feasible to all attend the same Mass.
2. The bigger the family group, the more likely that is.
3. It can be pretty excruciating just getting through Mass with 1-3 year olds. What are you planning on doing with them? Their plan is to run around and yell and rip papers. Parents of children that age are often reluctant to inflict them on any kind of group that isn’t focused on that age.
4. Lots of people attend youth Masses as a family. In fact, lots of non-youth type people without teenagers attend youth Masses.
5. Our old parish offered a free dinner before Wednesday night classes. That was very popular. Our new parish often hosts KofC brunches.
6. Speaking for myself and my husband, we enjoy the heck out of CCD night. Free babysitting! Date night! (That’s also good for families.) Traditionally, we go browse Aldis, visit Home Depot, have dinner together, or go to a bookstore for dessert (with the baby the last several years). I’d cry like a baby if we lost that to some sort of @#$%^& family catechesis.

 

[pianistclare]

1. Families that care do attend Mass together to the best of their ability. However, sometimes (no, often!) there’s illness or some sort of scheduling oddity and it’s not feasible to all attend the same Mass.
2. The bigger the family group, the more likely that is.
3. It can be pretty excruciating just getting through Mass with 1-3 year olds. What are you planning on doing with them? Their plan is to run around and yell and rip papers. Parents of children that age are often reluctant to inflict them on any kind of group that isn’t focused on that age.
4. Lots of people attend youth Masses as a family. In fact, lots of non-youth type people without teenagers attend youth Masses.
5. Our old parish offered a free dinner before Wednesday night classes. That was very popular. Our new parish often hosts KofC brunches.
6. Speaking for myself and my husband, we enjoy the heck out of CCD night. Free babysitting! Date night! (That’s also good for families.) Traditionally, we go browse Aldis, visit Home Depot, have dinner together, or go to a bookstore for dessert (with the baby the last several years). I’d cry like a baby if we lost that to some sort of @#$%^& family catechesis.

Re: #4

Most of the “youth Masses” around these parts are populated garage band types who haven’t been a “yout” for at least 50 years. That’s why the teens loathe them.
It’s always old guys who always wanted to be in a band, playing lame music thinking it will appear to the youth. It doesn’t. Not at all. And the homilies tend to be the same script as for all the other Masses, so what’s the point?

 

[bitterhope]

As we continue to work towards increasing awareness of family and wanting to strengthen the family, especially in our Catholic communities, one piece of awareness that I’ve had recently is that our actions run counter to that goal.

What I mean by that is if we look at how we educate our parish community, we pull our kids away from their families, separate them by grade and run them through a secular school model. Similarly, most of the parishes I’ve been a part of practice a form of family separation by having “youth” masses. (that’s a topic unto itself)

In my humble opinion, if we really want to create a family model that builds and strengthens the family unit, shouldn’t we look at a different model? If we truly believe that the family unit is one of the core foundations in our communities, and if we truly believe that the parents are the primary educators, why don’t we come up with a model that provides the parents with the tools they need to educate their youth and do that education in a family environment? Why don’t we stop trying to entertain our youth and encourage families to attend Mass together as a family unit?

I believe that if we did that, what we’d find is improved family ties, improved resources for families who are struggling, improved networking for parents and a stronger community.

Your thoughts?

I like the idea. I’ve actually just switched to a new parish that follows a very similar model to what you are describing. The sacramental classes are separate so they can focus on preparation, but nursery through 1st grade and 3-5 grade are all together on Sunday mornings while the 2nd grade meets in a separate area. The 6th grade and 8-12 grade meet on Wednesday nights while the 7th graders meet in a separate area. They all meet for Mass, the kids help prepare dinner and they all eat together before the 7th grade goes to Confirmation class and the rest meet for their class. Parents are welcome to attend and most do. Some are unable but they still contribute with supplies or food or the phone tree. The younger kids all buddy up with older kids and the older kids enjoy helping their partners. Many middle and high school students go on Sunday morning to help with the 2nd grade or other class. The little kids usually go on Wednesday with the older kids and parents. Catechism classes are coupled with community projects and other volunteer and service missions. This parish is pretty far from my house (about an hour drive) but it’s very much worth the drive.

The priest says that more families are participating in the three years the parish has been using this set up. He says the kids are all better prepared for their sacraments, classroom behavior is much improved, the kids are all learning more, and Mass attendance has increased. Parents and kids are all participating at Mass more than ever and many adults have said they finally understand what our faith is all about. They are now doing perpetual adoration at the parish and enrollment at the parish school has gone from nearly closing to having a wait list. Many of the parish school kids are attending the Sunday morning or Wednesday night classes along with the public and homeschool kids.

My only regret is not deciding to make the drive to this parish two years ago when we moved here. It is definitely a good, family oriented community. Several other families are making the drive out here, some coming from over an hour away. It is an answer to my prayers.

 

[carlsbad84]

Whole family catechesis is the new “thing” being promoted.

My 2 cents as an educator:

1. I seriously doubt that many families will partake. I say this because the vast majority drop their kids off at formation and speed away. To shop, run errands, do chores, watch sports, whatever.
2. Where to hold such gatherings? Where can you regularly use a space that will hold one or two children, 2 parents, times say…25 families? Does your parish have classrooms that big? Meeting in homes means breaking the units up into fairly small groups. What happens when the hosting family has an illness? What happens when the conversations get so sidetracked that the parents are debating and the kids dissolve into boredom?
3. Who will lead these groups? As DRE I can’t be in 12 homes/rec rooms/community centers at once. Will trained catechists come forward and give up a weeknight?
4. For as many people who dislike the time that classes are being offered right now, I think it would be pretty hard to get 20 or 25 sets of 2nd grade parents to agree on a night that’s good for everyone.
5. If you have access to a school…it could work. Unfortunately in our case, the Catholic school charges a fee per classroom per usage. It’s a better use of parish funds to rent a whole day (Sunday) for a one time fee of $700 per weekend with traditional classes than to pay subdivision center fees weekly.

The only model I have seen around her that really works is this:
One parish nearby holds family catechesis once a month. They come, have Mass, eat breakfast together (volunteers are called in to cook for everyone, I’m guessing the food cost comes out of the budget), the regular catechists teach one grade each, and they stay until noon. They have a huge facility, big classrooms, technology, enough chairs, and a professional kitchen and dining room.

We just don’t have the space.

Another option that they do, is they offer an all-day 2 week religious ed immersion camp in the summer. If your kid attends, they’re " done" for the year. I really don’t like this idea.
We have a hard enough time getting whole families to come to Sunday Mass. I can’t imagine how many would consider themselves “done” with Sunday Mass as well.

Of course, there are always the wonderful, faithful families. They keep the parish going and growing. They are the volunteers, the givers, the participants in liturgy.

There are some people who would really welcome whole family catechesis, but I’m not convinced that it would be that well attended. I wish I were. On paper, it sounds fantastic and full of possibilities. We’ve seriously looked into it. We determined it could cost the parish a whole lot more, and most of our catechists would quit. They don’t want to teach the adults, and don’t think the adults would want to sit in on a “kid-centered” class.
Indeed, it takes a special person to make these things accessible and interesting to all ages. When I reflect on the often daunting task of finding qualified catechists for RCIA…

Anxious to read other responses.

What I was talking about isn’t whole family catechesis per se but more of a train the trainer approach. I think we need to give parents and married couples in general the tools they need to survive.

Rather than classroom training, I see this as more in home training, thus alleviating the space issues. If we give the parents the right tools, they shouldn’t need more than a Bible and a Catechism for supplies.

What this would do is allow the parents to be educators, they would grow in their faith as a part of this process and it would make religion a more visible part of the home. I believe the result would be more of those faithful Catholic families that you mentioned and strengthen our parishes.

 

[carlsbad84]

Noooo!

I’d be interested in hearing the reason behind your no.

 

[carlsbad84]

1. Families that care do attend Mass together to the best of their ability. However, sometimes (no, often!) there’s illness or some sort of scheduling oddity and it’s not feasible to all attend the same Mass.
2. The bigger the family group, the more likely that is.
3. It can be pretty excruciating just getting through Mass with 1-3 year olds. What are you planning on doing with them? Their plan is to run around and yell and rip papers. Parents of children that age are often reluctant to inflict them on any kind of group that isn’t focused on that age.
4. Lots of people attend youth Masses as a family. In fact, lots of non-youth type people without teenagers attend youth Masses.
5. Our old parish offered a free dinner before Wednesday night classes. That was very popular. Our new parish often hosts KofC brunches.
6. Speaking for myself and my husband, we enjoy the heck out of CCD night. Free babysitting! Date night! (That’s also good for families.) Traditionally, we go browse Aldis, visit Home Depot, have dinner together, or go to a bookstore for dessert (with the baby the last several years). I’d cry like a baby if we lost that to some sort of @#$%^& family catechesis.

Let’s take your points individually:

1. You said “families that care” Shouldn’t all families care? While realities can interrupt plans, I believe that families attending Mass together is important.
2. Not sure whether you mean larger families tend to go together more or have a harder time. I know of many big families that do attend Mass together as a norm.
3. Since when do kids rule the roost? If a kids runs around and rips up the Church’s property to me that’s a sign of parenting. In my opinion and experience, it’s important to expose your kids to different situations and teach them how to behave in various environments. Our kids went to Mass with us since they were babies and I never found it excruciating.
4. Agree. Where I have my biggest issue is that there is no such thing as a youth Mass. Mass is mass. There may be different forms of music at various Masses but Mass is Mass. We need to treat it as such. I also do not appreciate it when parishes force teens to go to the “youth Mass” when they are in Confirmation programs. That is disruptive to the family cycle and is just a rouse to artificially inflate their youth attendance numbers.
5. Nice!
6. Date nights and time to run errands are great and necessary. They don’t have to go away. But your symbolized reference to home catechesis does concern me because that should be happening anyways. With a family oriented parish, finding other families to babysit so you and your husband can go out, typically becomes a non-issue in my experience.

 

[Allegra]

Re: #4

Most of the “youth Masses” around these parts are populated garage band types who haven’t been a “yout” for at least 50 years. That’s why the teens loathe them.
It’s always old guys who always wanted to be in a band, playing lame music thinking it will appear to the youth. It doesn’t. Not at all. And the homilies tend to be the same script as for all the other Masses, so what’s the point?

I concur. The term “youth Mass” is an irony around here as well. “Middle-aged Rock Star Wannabe Mass” would be more accurate.

 

[pianistclare]

What I was talking about isn’t whole family catechesis per se but more of a train the trainer approach. I think we need to give parents and married couples in general the tools they need to survive.

Rather than classroom training, I see this as more in home training, thus alleviating the space issues. If we give the parents the right tools, they shouldn’t need more than a Bible and a Catechism for supplies.

What this would do is allow the parents to be educators, they would grow in their faith as a part of this process and it would make religion a more visible part of the home. I believe the result would be more of those faithful Catholic families that you mentioned and strengthen our parishes.

Well, our Archdiocese has oodles of catechetical opportunities. In fact, there’s a big whole day of seminars tomorrow!
Do they advertise those in your bulletin where you live?

 

[Xantippe]

I’d be interested in hearing the reason behind your no.

I probably misunderstood that one–I was envisioning the kid noising being accidentally piped into the sanctuary rather than the sanctuary noise being piped into the bride’s room.

(The reason I jumped to that conclusion that was that one of our pastors warned us against the narthex in our old parish as the narthex noise gets sucked up the stairs into the choir loft and through the whole church.)

I think that the approach you are laying out is problematic for the following reasons:

1. A Bible and standard catechism aren’t age appropriate for younger elementary students–it’s not set up to provide a year’s worth of curriculum. You’d need to add at least a textbook for each child.
2. I don’t think that the average CCD family is up to what you are describing. From what I hear, the big beef that pastors have is that a lot of families take kids to CCD but not to Mass–I’ve heard this complaint from several different pastors. Parents that don’t even take kids to Mass aren’t going to magically turn into catechizing super heroes.
3. The existence of CCD doesn’t keep conscientious and informed parents from doing stuff at home. CCD is in addition to stuff that kids do at home.

 

[Xantippe]

Let’s take your points individually:

1. You said “families that care” Shouldn’t all families care? While realities can interrupt plans, I believe that families attending Mass together is important.
2. Not sure whether you mean larger families tend to go together more or have a harder time. I know of many big families that do attend Mass together as a norm.
3. Since when do kids rule the roost? If a kids runs around and rips up the Church’s property to me that’s a sign of parenting. In my opinion and experience, it’s important to expose your kids to different situations and teach them how to behave in various environments. Our kids went to Mass with us since they were babies and I never found it excruciating.
4. Agree. Where I have my biggest issue is that there is no such thing as a youth Mass. Mass is mass. There may be different forms of music at various Masses but Mass is Mass. We need to treat it as such. I also do not appreciate it when parishes force teens to go to the “youth Mass” when they are in Confirmation programs. That is disruptive to the family cycle and is just a rouse to artificially inflate their youth attendance numbers.
5. Nice!
6. Date nights and time to run errands are great and necessary. They don’t have to go away. But your symbolized reference to home catechesis does concern me because that should be happening anyways. With a family oriented parish, finding other families to babysit so you and your husband can go out, typically becomes a non-issue in my experience.

1. Sure, every family should care, but it’s only families that do care that show up regularly at Mass, together or separately. There’s no magical way to make people that don’t care, care. There’s this awful possibility that parishes will do stuff to try to force parents to do stuff in an effort to get at low-performing families and just wind up annoying and inconveniencing conscientious families. (We’ve experienced that before–we had one pastor who expected families to produce a signed bulletin for each CCD child every time we attended Mass outside our home parish.)
2. The larger the family group, the more likely one member of the family is ill, travelling, or has a conflicting engagement. Alternately, there are a lot of mixed marriages, so the reason mom or dad isn’t at Mass may be that they aren’t Catholic.
3. It’s awesome that you had awesome kids. Other people do stuff like go to separate Masses when kids are little (my husband and I did that for a couple years) or use a nursery (which we’re doing now). The stress of dealing with small children in Mass in a church with kid-unfriendly architecture is probably one of the things that keeps young families away from church or keeps them from attending as a family.

Also, telling parents that are having a hard time dealing with toddlers that they are failures as parents never goes over well.

1. I guess I haven’t run into the youth Mass problem yet. Our oldest is an 8th grader.
2. We mostly enjoy the food. I think it ought to be more of an opportunity for fellowship (as our Protestant brethren call it), but it’s a nice start.
3. Home catechesis does not need to happen on Wednesday night at 6:30 so the fact that the kids go to CCD for an hour a so a week doesn’t mean that they’re losing out. Our kids go to a (tolerant!) Protestant school, read loads of Bible, get loads of Christian history, get lots of stuff at school about virtue, and my husband has a serious home reading program with the kids.

I don’t find that family babysitting help is as easy to come by as you have, and it certainly wouldn’t be happening every single Wednesday.

It’s also literally our kids’ only regular scheduled opportunity to be with other Catholic children, so that’s kind of a big deal, especially since they go to a Protestant school and we live in a seriously Baptist-y area.

 

[pianistclare]

1. I don’t think that the average CCD family is up to what you are describing. From what I hear, the big beef that pastors have is that a lot of families take kids to CCD but not to Mass–I’ve heard this complaint from several different pastors. Parents that don’t even take kids to Mass aren’t going to magically turn into catechizing super heroes.

This is it.
FIRST, we need to get adults to MASS. Hopefully, bringing their children.
Somehow, we have devolved to a point where many think it’s no big deal to not go to Mass on Sunday. We have EMHC’s who miss for a month, but show up for their “ministry”.
People just don’t make their faith a priority. We can and DO offer the continuing ed classes for Formation. the people who least need it are the ones who show up.
All 10 of them.

 

[Xantippe]

Our old parish was very good at creating synergy. Here’s what they had for Wed. night:

–free dinner
–nursery for pre-CCD kids
–CCD (high school classes taught by pastor)
–reading groups for adults

So, it made it very easy for families to make a night of it.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Rather than classroom training, I see this as more in home training, thus alleviating the space issues. If we give the parents the right tools, they shouldn’t need more than a Bible and a Catechism for supplies.
.

Having tutored a lot of kids in math, I believe that there are instances when kids would listen to a tutor more readily than a parent. The kid would just see learning catechism as one more instance of mom and dad nagging them.

Second, if a kid is at home, there are several distractions such as a TV and their toys. If they are brought to a church, there is nothing else to do but listen

 

[Anglewannabe]

Let’s take your points individually:

1. You said “families that care” Shouldn’t all families care? While realities can interrupt plans, I believe that families attending Mass together is important…

ummm… mass attendance is so low, I think the reality is most families don’t care. It is the times we live in and sadly, if God respects their free will, we must as well.

1. Not sure whether you mean larger families tend to go together more or have a harder time. I know of many big families that do attend Mass together as a norm.

It is too far to walk to church and not everyone can fit into the car

1. Since when do kids rule the roost? .

Since always. Often parents are so exhausted they don’t have it left in them to keep their kids behaved

If a kids runs around and rips up the Church’s property to me that’s a sign of parenting. In my opinion and experience, it’s important to expose your kids to different situations and teach them how to behave in various environments. Our kids went to Mass with us since they were babies and I never found it excruciating.

My parents always made sure we behaved. And as a kid I was mocked for having strict parents. As much as I agree with what my parents did, I now feel sorry for what they had to put up with every Sunday. Me whining ‘Why can other kids bring rubics cubes to church and I can’t’ And now as an adult, I have learnt that if I say to a parent ‘I find it offensive you let your children use a tablet in mass’ half the time even the priest will tell me to take a hike

1. Date nights and time to run errands are great and necessary. .

I have never been married, but I can’t help but think that if I was a busy working mom, Catechism class would be a very romantic thing to do with a husband

Angie

 

[Xantippe]

Having tutored a lot of kids in math, I believe that there are instances when kids would listen to a tutor more readily than a parent. The kid would just see learning catechism as one more instance of mom and dad nagging them.

Second, if a kid is at home, there are several distractions such as a TV and their toys. If they are brought to a church, there is nothing else to do but listen

I think those are all very good point.

In my family, I often make sure to have an outside adult expert say the very thing that I have been saying every week. It’s one thing to have mom say that you need to brush your teeth for two minutes twice a day, it’s totally different when a dentist says exactly the same thing.

I feel like you often get more impact from making sure that kids get good (name removed by moderator)ut in stereo.