getting baptised again

[Pastor_Jim]

Not so. But if what you have posted recently is to be considered “respectful”… Might I suggest some “perception realignment”?

I’m sorry you feel that way. I believe that I was very respectful to him, even in the face of his personal attacks.

For someone who claims to be a “Pastor”…you appear to have a very scant understanding of Scripture and are very short of communication skills.

I love the way that when Catholics have no argument, all they can say is “well you just don’t understand”, but are completely unable to show what I’ve gotten wrong.

Mizer didn’t disrespect you at all. Not once!

You’re right. He didn’t do it once. He did it several times.

MIZER…is a good example of a Catholic… you could learn something from MIZER.

I agree. He is a good example of a Catholic.

 

[a_priori]

Protestants and Catholics both have bought into their respective points of view. Evangelicals are taught to understand and defend a certain hermeneutic. Catholics do the same. Everyone learns how to defend their system and counter the other guy’s arguments. When one thinks their clan is right, then it’s ok to demean and ridicule the other guy.

This lack of respect toward each other is nauseating. As a Christian, it’s also frankly embarrassing. No one can be absolutely certain that they are completely correct and the other guy is completely wrong.

The constant ad hominem responses throughout these discussions betray an inability of people to properly articulate their point of view and respect the other person’s point of view. If one has to get personal it means they lack the ability to make their case and should “stand down” until they have something constructive to contribute.

 

[RobHom]

I’m sorry you feel that way. I believe that I was very respectful to him, even in the face of his personal attacks.

There were no personal attacks. I challenge you to “quote” verbatim precisely each and every one of his “personal attacks”.

I love the way that when Catholics have no argument, all they can say is “well you just don’t understand”, but are completely unable to show what I’ve gotten wrong.

Actually, on that point you are about “half-right”. The part about Catholics having no argument…as there is NO argument. The Holy Scriptures are CLEAR AS A BELL!! It is you that are “arguing” to support false doctrine and heresy. And it appears that you are again “trying” to play the wounded and persecuted role. No sale. And insofar as what you got wrong…it has already been proven that you are and were in error regarding scriptures.

You’re right. He didn’t do it once. He did it several times.

And as “stated by me before”: I CHALLENGE YOU to provide verbatim proof of the attacks. Barring that, we will respectfully require your full and humble apology to MIZER.

I agree. He is a good example of a Catholic.

Yes he is. Despite your somewhat transparent arrogance and self-righteous attitude…shaded with more than just a touch of bigotry…you are managing to paint yourself and your brethren with a very broad brush. I am sure that Jesus Christ is proud of you…

 

[MIZER]

a priori posted:

Protestants and Catholics both have bought into their respective points of view. Evangelicals are taught to understand and defend a certain hermeneutic. Catholics do the same. Everyone learns how to defend their system and counter the other guy’s arguments. When one thinks their clan is right, then it’s ok to demean and ridicule the other guy.

This is starting to get annoying. At no time have I demeaned or ridiculed “pastor” Jim. I resent the implication you make that I have. Have you read this thread? Can you copy and paste the comment I made that you think demeaned or ridiculed anyone?

This lack of respect toward each other is nauseating. As a Christian, it’s also frankly embarrassing. No one can be absolutely certain that they are completely correct and the other guy is completely wrong.

I agree we should respect the opinions of our opponents on this forum. I think I have. What you are saying here is that it is impossible for us, as Christians to know the true Gospel. I couldn’t disagree with you more. When the Bible says, “Baptism saves,” I think we can be completely correct in thinking that “Baptism saves,” and thinking that the other guy who argues that Baptism does not save, is incorrect.

The constant ad hominem responses throughout these discussions betray an inability of people to properly articulate their point of view and respect the other person’s point of view.

Again, I disagree. My response to “pastor” Jim was neither ad hominem, nor was it inarticulate and it did not disrespect the other person’s point of view. Please review it, it is #33 and copy and paste the comment that you think was inarticulate and disrespectful.

If one has to get personal it means they lack the ability to make their case and should “stand down” until they have something constructive to contribute.

Again, I have not gotten personal at all. Do you see this “pastor” Jim? Your bearing false witness against me is starting to grow rotten fruit. Thanks a heap.

 

[MIZER]

posted by panoikei:

The problem I’ve experienced with all of these practices…rebaptizing…is evident that something is missing. One time a sick person called the elders of a church we used to attend, before I even attended it. The elders were so confused as to what to do. How do we annoint the sick person…it is scriptural… so what should we annoint them with…olive oil…what else…or only… The elders are said to be the bishops as described in the bible in independent congregations…autonomous. No central body…that’s what they perceive to be the model in the bible. Well, the even put so much stress on the elders and it was very awkward because they didn’t even know exactly what to say… How would say that…it is a ritual…it is scriptural… it was such a axious moment for them that they swore never to do it again…and refuse to talk about it. Rebaptism in a way seems to emulate confession… public. They don’t really know what to do and so they guess…they think they have it… But if it’s not right…then where do we go. That’s why there is so much division among them. that’s why there are over 30,000 communities that call themselves “the real” or best model church.

I’m glad to be home… no more figuring all that mess out anymore. When I bolted in 89’ my wife and I ended up visitin/placing membership over 20 chruches… We were married 17 years prior to coming home to the Catholic Church. They say actions speak louder than words…that’s a lot of action… we never could find any peace.

This is late in coming but WELCOME HOME!

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I also think it’s quite interesting that you can point to a very specific event that turned on a light in your mind which ultimately led you to the truth.

Again, welcome home to you and your dear wife.

 

[RobHom]

Protestants and Catholics both have bought into their respective points of view. Evangelicals are taught to understand and defend a certain hermeneutic. Catholics do the same. Everyone learns how to defend their system and counter the other guy’s arguments. When one thinks their clan is right, then it’s ok to demean and ridicule the other guy.

You are right. However, there are caveats that go with the rightness of the statement:

1. People of all faiths learn to defend their beliefs. Failure to defend is admit failure to believe.
2. Some people believe it is right and proper to launch ad hominem attacks and even directly attack the individual in an attempt to discredit the person in order to diminish their credibility.
3. In this thread… MIZER has not failed to do his Christian and Catholic duty in any fashion. He has been polite and respectful in all posts and questions. The recipient has failed to do his Christian duty politely or respectfully.

This lack of respect toward each other is nauseating. As a Christian, it’s also frankly embarrassing. No one can be absolutely certain that they are completely correct and the other guy is completely wrong.

Isn’t it though? and yes it is. But as to right or wrong on the issue… I disagree. I gave “proofs”, and the Holy Scriptures in this particular case are actually quite clear… ONE=ONE, not many. This is not a bottle of aspirin…take as needed.

The constant ad hominem responses throughout these discussions betray an inability of people to properly articulate their point of view and respect the other person’s point of view. If one has to get personal it means they lack the ability to make their case and should “stand down” until they have something constructive to contribute.

I agree. Additionally, the ad hominem responses and open bigotry display that persons inability to understand and accept “TRUTH” as it is clearly written, and yes…they should “stand down”…after apologizing for their wrongdoing, and I am not referring to MIZER or myself.

MIZER DID NOT ATTACK OR SLANDER ANYONE!!

Myself, I did not attack anyone… I clearly “chastised” and “rebuked” the individual for his errors. That is “Biblical”…perhaps he might post the appropriate verses.

Perhaps, you might like some “insight” as to the game plan of the erroneous one?

 

[RobHom]

This is late in coming but WELCOME HOME!

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I also think it’s quite interesting that you can point to a very specific event that turned on a light in your mind which ultimately led you to the truth.

Again, welcome home to you and your dear wife.

I SECOND THAT!!

 

[MIZER]

“pastor” Jim posted:

I’m sorry you feel that way. I believe that I was very respectful to him, even in the face of his personal attacks.

Why do you keep saying this? Do you know what it means to bear false witness against one’s neighbor?

I love the way that when Catholics have no argument, all they can say is “well you just don’t understand”, but are completely unable to show what I’ve gotten wrong.

Re-read post 33. I very clearly laid out for you what you had gotten wrong.

It’s as if you see your own reflection in a mirror.

You’re right. He didn’t do it once. He did it several times.

Jim, it’s not like your talking about a phone conversation here, where there are no witnesses. Our entire conversation is right here in writing. I’m going to ask you one more time to either produce the evidence of my disrespect or cease misrepresenting me on this board. I’m sure the moderator would be happy to shut this thread down and even remove it. I think it should stay on, however, so that others will know who they are speaking to when they engage you in good faith. You should be ashamed.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

This is starting to get annoying. At no time have I demeaned or ridiculed “pastor” Jim. I resent the implication you make that I have. Have you read this thread? Can you copy and paste the comment I made that you think demeaned or ridiculed anyone?

I like the way you repeatedly impugn my office of pastor and then insist that you’re being respectful.

 

[RobHom]

I like the way you repeatedly impugn my office of pastor and then insist that you’re being respectful.

**And I have taken notice that all you are still capable of doing is trying to play “victim”…is this how you manage to claim you are persecuted?

I also have taken notice that you have completely avoided addressing the “CHALLENGE” to PROVE your “false witness” against MIZER!!** How classic…

I too, have serious doubts as to your rightful ownership of the “honorific” of "pastor… Serious, serious doubts.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

And I have taken notice that all you are still capable of doing is trying to play “victim”…is this how you manage to claim you are persecuted?

I see. So then, when I say it, I’m just playing the victim but when your fellow Catholic says the same thing, then it’s legit?

I also have taken notice that you have completely avoided addressing the “CHALLENGE” to PROVE

No problem. Just show some evidence to back up your claims about me and I’ll be happy to reciprocate.

I too, have serious doubts as to your rightful ownership of the “honorific” of "pastor… Serious, serious doubts.

First, it isn’t honorific.

Second, I have serious doubts about your claims to be a Christian.

 

[ibkc]

someotherguy/backfromthebrnk/JoeBlow/PastorJim circles the drain yet again.

 

[MrS]

someotherguy/backfromthebrnk/JoeBlow/PastorJim circles the drain yet again.

ouch

 

[mercygate]

Dear RobHom,

Boy, what can I say? Thank you for weighing in. And for the support. I always thought one Baptism meant only once although I think Mercygate has a point that it can also be taken to mean the correct one.

At anyrate, I appreciate your setting “pastor” Jim straight on the issue of respect. I doubt we will hear from him again on this thread.

You take care and may God Bless.

My statement about “one baptism” as meaning the “one” true baptism of the Church translates into “do it once only.” In Catholic theology, Baptism removes Original Sin. When it is gone, it is GONE!

Post-baptismal sin is committed to the tribunal of Confession as prescribed in Jn 20:23 and James 5:16.

There is no contradiction between the “one” baptism of the “one” Church and the proscription against doing it over.

 

[MIZER]

I like the way you repeatedly impugn my office of pastor and then insist that you’re being respectful.

If anyone is impugning your supposed office sir, it you yourself.

 

[Harmony1988]

I’m sorry you feel that way. I believe that I was very respectful to him, even in the face of his personal attacks.

You aren’t even close to that. What you do is wrap your words in an aura of sarcasm and then have an accusing tone (which others have picked up, not only in this thread but in the sacred scripture forum), set up strawmen arguments as well as “poisoning the well” fallacies, some can be seen by your response to me saying: “I’m sorry you find scripture offensive”

I never said such a thing, I don’t embrace your ideology that you were right in your interpretation of scripture to justify you going around calling others fool. Jesus had certain rights and did certain things that no one else is allowed to do or can do. Certainly if you thought you could pick up by example of Jesus calling others fools, perhaps you’d like to follow up in his other actions by going to churches and turning the tables upside down and accusing people of being thieves or walking into churches and causing an uproar over illicit activities. Or perhaps transform yourself and talk with Elijah. Do not be under the illusion that you can do everything Jesus did, he knew the hearts of men, you don’t.

Scripture also does talk about the sin of slander. Whilst we all do slander and have evil thoughts towards others, and we must ask forgiveness for it, misusing scripture so you can justify yourself to slander is actually contradicting scripture.

I love the way that when Catholics have no argument, all they can say is “well you just don’t understand”, but are completely unable to show what I’ve gotten wrong.

From what I know about your posts, the ones that I have seen and responded to, most of them were incorrect, not only logically, but scripturally. And this goes for the threads which I have seen others respond to you too. Whilst some may have said this aforementioned lined, you greatly exaggerate things so as to not even noticed the trail of fallacies, non-sequitirs, strawmen behind you, and people pointing out your inconsistencies and lack of knowledge.

You’re right. He didn’t do it once. He did it several times.

You have been disrespectful towards others too. So don’t whinge. A voice calls out from the wilderness, first remove the beam in your eye before…you know the rest.

I agree. He is a good example of a Catholic.

You’re a funny, funny man.

 

[MIZER]

Well I think this is about as clear as it is going to get:

My statement about “one baptism” as meaning the “one” true baptism of the Church translates into “do it once only.” In Catholic theology, Baptism removes Original Sin. When it is gone, it is GONE!

Post-baptismal sin is committed to the tribunal of Confession as prescribed in Jn 20:23 and James 5:16.

There is no contradiction between the “one” baptism of the “one” Church and the proscription against doing it over.

Thanks, Mercygate.

 

[a_priori]

This is starting to get annoying. At no time have I demeaned or ridiculed “pastor” Jim. I resent the implication you make that I have.

First, let’s ratchet down a bit. My post was not directed at you personally and, no, I haven’t read all these posts. But I’ve read enough to understand that there is way more heat than light in this exchange. Frankly, when there is this much heat, any potential meaning gets lost in the fog of battle. There’s really nothing in this particular exchange for someone who actually wants to understand the larger issues.

It seems like fratricide to me. But by all means, have at it. Nothing personal.

 

[RickAstley]

I remember this being covered before, hold on, I’ll grab a link for you:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4055654#post4055654

I Hope this helps out

 

[Pastor_Jim]

First, let’s ratchet down a bit. My post was not directed at you personally and, no, I haven’t read all these posts. But I’ve read enough to understand that there is way more heat than light in this exchange. Frankly, when there is this much heat, any potential meaning gets lost in the fog of battle. There’s really nothing in this particular exchange for someone who actually wants to understand the larger issues.

It seems like fratricide to me. But by all means, have at it. Nothing personal.

Fratricide means the murder of brothers. We would first have to consider one another brothers for that to take place.