Getting clear about homosexuality

[ccmnxc]

Do you have a scientific source for the existence of god over the flying spaghetti monster?

Scientific, not sure. Historical and logical, yes, besides the fact that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is by definition a delusion because its creation can be credited to Bobby Henderson. It also has to be an uncreated God or else you run into the problem of infinite regression.

There seem to be reasonable arguments on either side.

There might be good arguments for homosexuality developing at an early age, although since few can remember back when they were young toddlers or babies, the line stops there.

For what it’s worth, I’ve had same sex encounters, brought about my own choice. I don’t for a second agree that people are born gay. We have free will and make choices, that’s it.

I can’t see how homosexuality is any different from pedophilia to be honest. People just making sick choices, with society becoming accepting of one evil but not another.

I completely agree.

 

[beenwashed]

I have never understood how people can say, “They are not born that way…” If you are not gay yourself, how ever would you know ? you are just making guesses that you hope are true… Now, if you are gay yourself, then you KNOW that you ARE born that way… I know I was born THAT way… LOL

No one can say they were born gay. That would be like saying I was born to like the color blue. There is no proof to back any of that up.

 

[beenwashed]

The burden of proof is on the people who say it’s genetic. Since you can’t prove a false, the people who say it’s genetic have to be able to prove that it’s genetic, otherwise it’s still just opinion. Thus, since it has yet to be proven that being gay is genetic, being “born gay” is incorrect.

 

[Threep]

The burden of proof is on the people who say it’s genetic. Since you can’t prove a false, the people who say it’s genetic have to be able to prove that it’s genetic, otherwise it’s still just opinion. Thus, since it has yet to be proven that being gay is genetic, being “born gay” is incorrect.

Why does it have to be genetic? From what I’ve read around the place, homosexuality seems to be a combination of nature and nurture. I’d say the physical aspect is determined by the combination of hormones the child is exposed to in the womb - too much testosterone for boys has feminising effects apparently, and too much estrogen on girls has masculinising effects.

But as I said, nature is only part of it, as the other is nurture.

 

[fissionu235]

I know I was born gay cause I am gay… really simple… as far as the poster saying that they could not like the color blue from being born that way… how do you know ? Also, there is a huge difference between liking colors and thinking another man is hot…

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I have no doubt that homosexuality is biological.

I’m a married heterosexual, in case you’re wondering.

Jim

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Hi everyone,

I just watched the 2008 movie called “Milk.” It’s a movie based on a true story about the campaign for gay rights in the U.S.

As I watched the movie, I saw the way homosexuals expressed their outrage at the laws that prevented them from getting jobs. I am torn about homosexuality because although I see gay people as human beings, I also see an evil force at work that wants unhealthy sexual acts to run rampant to the destruction of the human race.

What do you guys think?

Homosexuality #8 Declaration on Certain Questions on Sexual Ethics ( CDF, Dec 29, 1979) newadvent.org/library/docs_df75se.htm

Violence is never excusable.

 

[beenwashed]

Again, if you want to make a firm case as to homosexuality being anything other than a choice, the burden of proof is on you. Saying, “I just know it” doesn’t make it so.

 

[Katarina90]

Again, if you want to make a firm case as to homosexuality being anything other than a choice, the burden of proof is on you. Saying, “I just know it” doesn’t make it so.

…I don’t understand. I don’t. If a homosexual person says they never chose to feel attracted to the same gender and not the opposite gender, how can you still say it’s a choice to feel that way? We can’t help how we feel, only what we do about those feelings.

 

[fissionu235]

The burdon is not on me… I am the gay one… I know when had interest in the same gender (my earlyist memories), before kindergarten. You now portend to know when I became “flawed” ? Does a Black person know when they became black ? You seem to be treating homosexuality as a flaw that someone may find a possible fix for… therefore we must determine the exact cause so it can be fixed… Maybe you one day will be able to vaccinate me and I wont be gay. You see, what alot of you dont understand, is that I am most gays are comfortable with themselves because its ALL they have ever known about themselves. The proble arrises when people want to cure, fix or condem us.

 

[OraLabora]

Since we don’t know the true origin of this trait, it’s best to be charitable and say that it isn’t chosen. Whether it’s genetic, from conditioning, hormonal issues in utero, or just a feeling, makes not one iota of a difference. For those gays, it’s a cross to bear. IMHO the only course of action for Catholics on this issue is: 1) treat gays with dignity and respect, 2) MYOB about their sex lives, and 3) pray for them.

Everyone has temptations and varying degrees of ability to stand up to them. Why we are so insistent on singling out this particular disorder while other equally serious, if not more serious, sexual and non-sexual disorders abound in the world, puzzles me. It’s just another aspect of mankind’s fallen nature. We are all called to sanctity and fighting sin, but the fight begins with the person we look at in the mirror every morning, not with our neighbour’s sins.

 

[Credendum]

Wow, I didn’t expect this thread to turn into a debate on whether or not one is born homosexual.

In the movie “Milk,” the political movement escalated to rioting in the streets, and at the same time, the characters were participating in rampant sexual escapades and there was a lot of sexually charged content that had nothing to do with civil rights and everything to do with sinful pleasures.

So, what I’m trying to get clear about is whether or not there are territorial spirits, so to speak, that have an agenda to spread deviant sexual behaviour throughout society and disguise the agenda as a political movement.

 

[edwest2]

I have never understood how people can say, “They are not born that way…” If you are not gay yourself, how ever would you know ? you are just making guesses that you hope are true… Now, if you are gay yourself, then you KNOW that you ARE born that way… I know I was born THAT way… LOL

“I Was Born This Way”

"Many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them.

"But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them.

"Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be most unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning.

"Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them.

“For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable “lifestyle” any more than homosexuality is.”

Source: Catholic Answers

Peace,
Ed

 

[fissionu235]

Natural design of humanity ??? As defined by who ? You ? The Church ? Jerry Fallwell ? My definition of the Natural design of humanity is obiviously different then yours. You seem to consider homosexuality un-natural because you (I assume) are not gay. I consider it quite natural and therefore part of the Natural design of humanity cause I am gay. So, based on what authority are you correct and I am wrong ? before you answer, make sure that that authority is the same for both of us. dunno if my Higher-power has the same attributes as yours… We all see different things in God

 

[Credendum]

Can someone address my concern?

 

[Katarina90]

Can someone address my concern?

Do I think there are evil spirits trying to manioulate some hellish agenda? No. I don’t. I believe the vast majority of gay rights activists are simply excercising their right to lobby for something they believe in. Do I agree with them? No. Do I think homosexual activities are a sin and gay marriage shouldn’t be legal? yes. But I don’t think it takes evil spirits to do that. Just well meaning but horribly misguided people.

 

[beenwashed]

Wow, I didn’t expect this thread to turn into a debate on whether or not one is born homosexual.

In the movie “Milk,” the political movement escalated to rioting in the streets, and at the same time, the characters were participating in rampant sexual escapades and there was a lot of sexually charged content that had nothing to do with civil rights and everything to do with sinful pleasures.

So, what I’m trying to get clear about is whether or not there are territorial spirits, so to speak, that have an agenda to spread deviant sexual behaviour throughout society and disguise the agenda as a political movement.

The issues are separate. A Human that is homosexual is still a human, created and loved by God who deserves just s much respect, kindness, and love as any other human created by God. Sexual behavior has nothing to do with love or whether you can do a Job correctly or can sit someplace at a restaurant or visit someone at a hospital.

The Catholic Church has an issue with people ACTING on their homosexual desires. It goes ago st natural law.

The problem arises when homosexuals or people who are “pro-homosexual” behVior want to use their love for each other as the reason to forward their political agendas such as " gay marriage" or gay parent adoption. “Love” has nothing to do with it since I can love my best friend of the same sex but not be attracted to him/her. Since marriage is defined as one man one woman and parenting was designed to be by one mother And one father, these are natural laws that cannot be changed no matter whether society changes them or not. There is no natural law saying a homosexual man/woman cannot do the same job/career as a heterosexual one.

 

[Brant]

I just want to point out that it clearly states in the bible ALL sin is the same in God’s eyes and no sin is greater than a other. We ALL are going to sin until the day we die. We can not avoid it. Saying one sin is greater than the other just because YOU are disgusted by it is laughable. No matter how many times you go to confession or ask for forgiveness you are still a sinner and I guarentee you will walk out of that confessional and commit another sin. Why? We are humans. We are not perfect. We will never be perfect until we die and get to Heaven.

 

[beenwashed]

I just want to point out that it clearly states in the bible ALL sin is the same in God’s eyes and no sin is greater than a other. We ALL are going to sin until the day we die. We can not avoid it. Saying one sin is greater than the other just because YOU are disgusted by it is laughable. No matter how many times you go to confession or ask for forgiveness you are still a sinner and I guarentee you will walk out of that confessional and commit another sin. Why? We are humans. We are not perfect. We will never be perfect until we die and get to Heaven.

How do you explain venial and mortal sin?

 

[beenwashed]

I just want to point out that it clearly states in the bible ALL sin is the same in God’s eyes and no sin is greater than a other. We ALL are going to sin until the day we die. We can not avoid it. Saying one sin is greater than the other just because YOU are disgusted by it is laughable. No matter how many times you go to confession or ask for forgiveness you are still a sinner and I guarentee you will walk out of that confessional and commit another sin. Why? We are humans. We are not perfect. We will never be perfect until we die and get to Heaven.

You make it sound like we should just ignore all sin since everyone sins. So that would mean we should ignore the child molesters and the murderers and the rapists. I mean heck, they’re sinners just like us.