Getting dragged into an unpleasant situation

[Burt_Macklin]

I guess I could use a little advice or support. I’ll try to keep the convoluted back story as short as possible.

My wife has two brothers, we can call them Billy Bob and Cletus. About 3 years ago Billy Bob passed away after a long struggle with cancer and left his estate to my wife. He had two small rental units on about ten acres of land with a renter in one and his brother Cletus living in the other.

The unit that Cletus lived in is an old dilapidated trailer that Cletus has been living in rent free for over a decade. Originally when Cletus moved in the trailer wasn’t so bad and had electricity and water but Cletus had large dogs living inside the trailer and only occasionally paid his electricity and water. He was supposed to pay rent but that never happened. Cletus has never had a job apart from occasional odd jobs with his dad. He, at 35 years of age, does not have a bank account or pay his own bills. His parents buy him cars and take care of his cell phone bill. He is also an alcoholic and will on occasion steal from his parents to pay for booze.

Cletus has also been having an affair with his married first cousin, Prudence, since he was 14 and she was 22. About a year ago Prudence’s husband committed suicide. Prudence has two children from her first marriage and since her husband’s suicide now lives with Cletus in his dilapidated trailer. She is what I would describe as a welfare queen. Her only source of income outside of government assistance is lawsuits and very occasionally working for her parents. CPS has been sent to the trailer over the absolute filth and because Prudence doesn’t send her children to school. Prudence and Cletus also have knock down drag out fights that end with the police being called. There is about as much drama as you can imagine that goes on at this house… and I’m sure I only know the half of it. My wife and I have intentionally stayed away from everything choosing to move 7 hours away from the entire mess.

Now enough back story and on to where I enter this whole mess. My wife originally planned to split the property and give Cletus five acres and his trailer. Before this could happen the trailer caught on fire and burned to the ground. Thankfully nobody was hurt. My in laws now want to buy Cletus a trailer but don’t want to put it in his name. I’ve refused to babysit and have said that if they want to buy him a trailer the property absolutely must go in his name. My main concern being that Prudence will find a way to sue me. She is on a break with Cletus since the fire but I think she will be back if she gets a free place to stay. My in laws also really, really can’t afford to buy a trailer to begin with as they owe loads of back taxes. The main problem is that I do not want my children visiting their grandparents this summer if Cletus is living with them. So do I just get Cletus out the house by buying/renting him a place? I have the money, it is just the principle of the matter. As far as charity goes he will just waste anything that is given to him.

 

[Della]

As I see it, you should simply buy Cletus a new trailer (by new I mean another one–used would do just fine, I’m sure), give him the land and wash your hands of the whole thing. He’s been spoiled rotten and wasted his life in booze. The cousin is no better. You can’t change them or make decisions for them. It’s better to just give them a place to live and let the rest go. I too wouldn’t want my children anywhere near these people. For their sake I’d do as I advised above and be at peace. Pray for them, of course, but there’s nothing that says you have to take them on or try to change them–a task far beyond your abilities or responsibility.

 

[nodito]

I don’t think you should buy your alcoholic abusive brother-in-law a rent-free place to live. That has “enabler” written all over it.

What your in-laws do with their money is their decision. If they’re irresponsible with their finances, that’s they’re prerogative, and I don’t think you need to change your original plans to stave off a major money mistake on their part.

If your wife was originally going to split the property, and there’s no reason other than the fire fiasco to make you reconsider, then I’d be inclined to go ahead with the plan and deed him the land. The in-laws can buy him a trailer if they want, or not. They can keep it in their name and be the landlord if they wish. Or if they don’t, he’ll own land and can do what he wishes with it.

I assume Cletus is living with your in-laws now? I think if he’s still there this summer, you re-evaluate whether you let your kids visit. Or invite them to visit you. But don’t make a major financial purchase just to give your kids some drama free time with their grandparents.

It’s not clear to me why you would be asked to babysit; don’t you live seven hours away?

 

[Burt_Macklin]

As I see it, you should simply buy Cletus a new trailer (by new I mean another one–used would do just fine, I’m sure), give him the land and wash your hands of the whole thing. He’s been spoiled rotten and wasted his life in booze. The cousin is no better. You can’t change them or make decisions for them. It’s better to just give them a place to live and let the rest go. I too wouldn’t want my children anywhere near these people. For their sake I’d do as I advised above and be at peace. Pray for them, of course, but there’s nothing that says you have to take them on or try to change them–a task far beyond your abilities or responsibility.

Yes, it wouldn’t be more than 5,000 to get him in something like he had before. It would be a load off of my mind too.

 

[DoxieMama]

My only concern would be how the fire started. Did he leave a cigarette unattended? Is it safe for children to live with him? Is he truly responsible to live alone?

If he does live with his parents, I understand the hesitation to have your kids around him. Could your in-laws come over to visit you without him, or meet at a restaurant somewhere?
Good luck!

 

[bitterhope]

As I see it, you should simply buy Cletus a new trailer (by new I mean another one–used would do just fine, I’m sure), give him the land and wash your hands of the whole thing. He’s been spoiled rotten and wasted his life in booze. The cousin is no better. You can’t change them or make decisions for them. It’s better to just give them a place to live and let the rest go. I too wouldn’t want my children anywhere near these people. For their sake I’d do as I advised above and be at peace. Pray for them, of course, but there’s nothing that says you have to take them on or try to change them–a task far beyond your abilities or responsibility.

Yes, I agree with this. I think in the long run it will be the cheapest option as well as the easiest solution. If you have the money, just do it and get it over with. It’s probably the safest in terms of your own family (you, wife, kids) and also more peaceful for your inlaws.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I don’t think you should buy your alcoholic abusive brother-in-law a rent-free place to live. That has “enabler” written all over it.

I know that is exactly what it is. But It isn’t as if he would be living in a mansion. The trailer had a partially collapsed roof and no electricity for crying out loud.

What your in-laws do with their money is their decision. If they’re irresponsible with their finances, that’s they’re prerogative, and I don’t think you need to change your original plans to stave off a major money mistake on their part.

Their problem until they need a place to stay.

If your wife was originally going to split the property, and there’s no reason other than the fire fiasco to make you reconsider, then I’d be inclined to go ahead with the plan and deed him the land. The in-laws can buy him a trailer if they want, or not. They can keep it in their name and be the landlord if they wish. Or if they don’t, he’ll own land and can do what he wishes with it.

Cletus doesn’t want the property because he can’t keep up with the property tax.

I assume Cletus is living with your in-laws now? I think if he’s still there this summer, you re-evaluate whether you let your kids visit. Or invite them to visit you. But don’t make a major financial purchase just to give your kids some drama free time with their grandparents.

5,000 wouldn’t be a major purchase.

It’s not clear to me why you would be asked to babysit; don’t you live seven hours away?

Well for one the property would be in my name and so I would be responsible for the taxes. For another my in-laws are not going to live forever and I do not want to be responsible for a 50 year old man who has never paid a bill or lived on his own.

 

[1ke]

Frankly, I wouldn’t buy him or give him anything. He is off the property, keep it that way.

If he lives with his parents, then the kids just don’t go visit. The grandparents can come to you. Or not. Their choice.

You do him no favors deeding the land to him, or buying him a trailer. If he is unemployed, he won’t pay the property taxes and the county will just take the land for back taxes. Or, your in laws will gain additional bills to pay for insurance, property taxes, or whatever. And if you pay for everything, then you are just a sucker who will be paying forever. Not to mention all the liability you would have with him living on your property.

You are not responsible for him. If his parents die and he is 50 with no job, that is his own fault. Not yours.

Sell the property and keep the money, leave it dormant, or rent it out to someone else-- with a signed lease that a lawyer has drawn up.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

My only concern would be how the fire started. Did he leave a cigarette unattended? Is it safe for children to live with him? Is he truly responsible to live alone?

If he does live with his parents, I understand the hesitation to have your kids around him. Could your in-laws come over to visit you without him, or meet at a restaurant somewhere?
Good luck!

I think the fire was started when one of their pit bulls chewed through an electric cord. The door was open and their other dogs made it out but the firemen found the pit burned like it didn’t make an attempt to escape. The place was a tinderbox with old newspapers and such scattered around so a fire was going to happen sooner or later.

 

[nodito]

Frankly, I wouldn’t buy him or give him anything. He is off the property, keep it that way.

If he lives with his parents, then the kids just don’t go visit. The grandparents can come to you. Or not. Their choice.

You do him no favors deeding the land to him, or buying him a trailer. If he is unemployed, he won’t pay the property taxes and the county will just take the land for back taxes. Or, your in laws will gain additional bills to pay for insurance, property taxes, or whatever. And if you pay for everything, then you are just a sucker who will be paying forever. Not to mention all the liability you would have with him living on your property.

You are not responsible for him. If his parents die and he is 50 with no job, that is his own fault. Not yours.

Sell the property and keep the money, leave it dormant, or rent it out to someone else-- with a signed lease that a lawyer has drawn up.

I like 1ke’s advice. Good point about the land not being a blessing to him.

 

[nodito]

I do not want to be responsible for a 50 year old man who has never paid a bill or lived on his own.

I don’t think you need to be responsible for him. I actually don’t think your in-laws need to be responsible for him, either, but that’s neither here nor there.

 

[Xantippe]

I guess I could use a little advice or support. I’ll try to keep the convoluted back story as short as possible.

My wife has two brothers, we can call them Billy Bob and Cletus. About 3 years ago Billy Bob passed away after a long struggle with cancer and left his estate to my wife. He had two small rental units on about ten acres of land with a renter in one and his brother Cletus living in the other.

The unit that Cletus lived in is an old dilapidated trailer that Cletus has been living in rent free for over a decade. Originally when Cletus moved in the trailer wasn’t so bad and had electricity and water but Cletus had large dogs living inside the trailer and only occasionally paid his electricity and water. He was supposed to pay rent but that never happened. Cletus has never had a job apart from occasional odd jobs with his dad. He, at 35 years of age, does not have a bank account or pay his own bills. His parents buy him cars and take care of his cell phone bill. He is also an alcoholic and will on occasion steal from his parents to pay for booze.

Cletus has also been having an affair with his married first cousin, Prudence, since he was 14 and she was 22. About a year ago Prudence’s husband committed suicide. Prudence has two children from her first marriage and since her husband’s suicide now lives with Cletus in his dilapidated trailer. She is what I would describe as a welfare queen. Her only source of income outside of government assistance is lawsuits and very occasionally working for her parents. CPS has been sent to the trailer over the absolute filth and because Prudence doesn’t send her children to school. Prudence and Cletus also have knock down drag out fights that end with the police being called. There is about as much drama as you can imagine that goes on at this house… and I’m sure I only know the half of it. My wife and I have intentionally stayed away from everything choosing to move 7 hours away from the entire mess.

Now enough back story and on to where I enter this whole mess. My wife originally planned to split the property and give Cletus five acres and his trailer. Before this could happen the trailer caught on fire and burned to the ground. Thankfully nobody was hurt. My in laws now want to buy Cletus a trailer but don’t want to put it in his name. I’ve refused to babysit and have said that if they want to buy him a trailer the property absolutely must go in his name. My main concern being that Prudence will find a way to sue me. She is on a break with Cletus since the fire but I think she will be back if she gets a free place to stay. My in laws also really, really can’t afford to buy a trailer to begin with as they owe loads of back taxes. The main problem is that I do not want my children visiting their grandparents this summer if Cletus is living with them. So do I just get Cletus out the house by buying/renting him a place? I have the money, it is just the principle of the matter. As far as charity goes he will just waste anything that is given to him.

I like your wife’s original plan of splitting the property and giving Cletus five acres and the trailer. Too bad the trailer burned down…

Here’s a new version:

1. divide the property as previously planned
2. sell the half with the rental (you can hopefully get a rental closer to you that will be more convenient to manage)
3. give the in-laws the other half and let them figure out what to do with it, encouraging them to set him up cheaply out of their house. They could maybe fund a rental out of the proceeds from the sale of the property for quite a while.

I would definitely wash my hands of this property and get away from it as soon as possible, because it’s all downside. Also, my version hopefully reduces the very strong likelihood that Cletus is going to be whining until the end of time about how unfair it was that he didn’t get a share of Billy Bob’s estate.

Cletus deserves NOTHING, but he’s never going to accept that. The only thing to do is to eliminate any unnecessary involvement with Cletus and Prudence.

Good luck!

 

[Xantippe]

Yes, it wouldn’t be more than 5,000 to get him in something like he had before. It would be a load off of my mind too.

That would be ideal.

The only problem I can see with that is that I’ve heard a number of stories of people attempting to move $5k or $10k mobile homes and having them literally disintegrate in the process.

So, bear that in mind.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Frankly, I wouldn’t buy him or give him anything. He is off the property, keep it that way.

If he lives with his parents, then the kids just don’t go visit. The grandparents can come to you. Or not. Their choice.

You do him no favors deeding the land to him, or buying him a trailer. If he is unemployed, he won’t pay the property taxes and the county will just take the land for back taxes. Or, your in laws will gain additional bills to pay for insurance, property taxes, or whatever. And if you pay for everything, then you are just a sucker who will be paying forever. Not to mention all the liability you would have with him living on your property.

You are not responsible for him. If his parents die and he is 50 with no job, that is his own fault. Not yours.

Sell the property and keep the money, leave it dormant, or rent it out to someone else-- with a signed lease that a lawyer has drawn up.

I agree with this. Giving him anything isn’t going to help him. Based on what you’ve described, the children need to be removed for their own safety, and your parents need to stop supporting him. It’s not Christian charity to continue to enable an immoral or just plain awful living situation, and you’d be doing neither yourself nor him any good. If you don’t want to deal with the property taxes on the whole thing, sell half of it and rent out the other half, or rent out the whole thing.

You owe him nothing, and the only thing that’s going to do him any good at this point is an incredibly harsh reality check. Also, your wife should intervene with the parents. This man is thirty five years old, they should in no way shape or form be supporting him any more.

Whatever you do, do not let them back on the property unless it’s in their name. The cousin in a money-grubbing…something-or-another… and the man seems to embody the very definition of sloth. ANY interaction with these people, no matter how well intended, opens you and your family up to their maliciousness. Do not, under any circumstances, allow them to live on that property until they’ve purchased it from you. I don’t care what they say or promise, no good can come from it.

 

[Xantippe]

Well for one the property would be in my name and so I would be responsible for the taxes. For another my in-laws are not going to live forever and I do not want to be responsible for a 50 year old man who has never paid a bill or lived on his own.

I would not want him to live another 5 minutes on property that I owned.

He’s a huge legal liability.

 

[bitterhope]

I like your wife’s original plan of splitting the property and giving Cletus five acres and the trailer. Too bad the trailer burned down…

Here’s a new version:

1. divide the property as previously planned
2. sell the half with the rental (you can hopefully get a rental closer to you that will be more convenient to manage)
3. give the in-laws the other half and let them figure out what to do with it, encouraging them to set him up cheaply out of their house. They could maybe fund a rental out of the proceeds from the sale of the property for quite a while.

I would definitely wash my hands of this property and get away from it as soon as possible, because it’s all downside. Also, my version hopefully reduces the very strong likelihood that Cletus is going to be whining until the end of time about how unfair it was that he didn’t get a share of Billy Bob’s estate.

Cletus deserves NOTHING, but he’s never going to accept that. The only thing to do is to eliminate any unnecessary involvement with Cletus and Prudence.

Good luck!

This is a good plan. Even putting a trailer on it for him will be cheaper in the long run. It will also minimize or hopefully cut out contact as well

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Frankly, I wouldn’t buy him or give him anything. He is off the property, keep it that way.

If he lives with his parents, then the kids just don’t go visit. The grandparents can come to you. Or not. Their choice.

You do him no favors deeding the land to him, or buying him a trailer. If he is unemployed, he won’t pay the property taxes and the county will just take the land for back taxes. Or, your in laws will gain additional bills to pay for insurance, property taxes, or whatever. And if you pay for everything, then you are just a sucker who will be paying forever. Not to mention all the liability you would have with him living on your property.

You are not responsible for him. If his parents die and he is 50 with no job, that is his own fault. Not yours.

Sell the property and keep the money, leave it dormant, or rent it out to someone else-- with a signed lease that a lawyer has drawn up.

This is what I originally thought as well. If he were to come up with the money to divide the property, the property would be his. He had a chance to make enough for the survey and property tax and he chose instead to pass on the work. He couldn’t explain to me why.

I think he’s happy bouncing around from one house to the next. He is good looking and doesn’t have any problem finding a girlfriend to take him in for a while. Or he goes to Prudence’s new place as long as they can stand one another. It’s really his parents who want him in a place because he pops into their house at all hours to take a shower or fix supper.

 

[Xantippe]

This is a good plan. Even putting a trailer on it for him will be cheaper in the long run. It will also minimize or hopefully cut out contact as well

Yeah. Getting a place for him is just as much about keeping him away from other places (i.e. the in-laws) as it is about sheltering him.

 

[Indigo_Cardinal]

My two cents…

Give him not thing one–because 1.) He sounds like the type who will keep coming back and hitting you for more, and 2.) If something’s wrong with whatever it is you get him, he may try to make your life a misery insisting that you ‘make it right’.

Personally, unless the land has great sentimental value, or you and your wife are planning to retire and build a home there…I’d sell it. Now. In a red-hot minute before he can park his butt back on it and you have to try and evict him. The more ties you can cut with him, the better. Don’t give him a ‘portion’–the deceased brother didn’t give any of it to him, and your story makes me suspect why.

If he has to stay with your in-laws…well, that’s on them and him. Tell your in-laws they’re welcome to visit, or go visit them (and stay at a hotel), but keep a 100-foot-pole between him and your immediate family at all times.

Him not having a place to live as a result of all this Is. Not. Your. Problem. He is 35 years old, you give no indication of him being mentally or physically disabled, or just in a temporary rough patch. This is a full-grown, able-bodied, of sound man ADULT, who has had people doing for him his whole life. Don’t be one of them.

Do not walk away–run. And do not look back.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Yeah. Getting a place for him is just as much about keeping him away from other places (i.e. the in-laws) as it is about sheltering him.

We would basically be paying to not see him.

And I don’t know if I made it clear in my post but Prudence’s children have had a really rough life. Their father committed suicide and their mother had them living in a small trailer with four large dogs and her first cousin/boyfriend. She can’t even be bothered to get them ready to catch the school bus in the morning so she pulled them out of school. Her kids have developmental problems and I don’t trust them around my children. I would also be paying to never see her and her kids.