Getting lost during Latin Mass

[minion]

So I’ve tried attending a few Latin Masses lately, and to be honest, I kind of like it better than the regular English Masses I’ve been attending for most of my life. But, I’m kind of getting confused a lot…

So the times I’ve attended, I think the High Mass was being celebrated, and all the candles were lit (six or seven). I try to follow what’s happening with this little red missal book available…sometimes I can keep up, sometimes keeping up with words the choir sings helps…but when the priest begins praying silently I get lost. Especially during the gospel parts…I think he said two gospels instead of one in Latin? Regardless, none of them were in that red booklet thingy.

I got by a little bit last time by glancing at the lady next to me to see which page she was at, but sometimes that wouldn’t help, and I’d get completely lost. I don’t think the choir is always singing what’s in that red missal either.

Anyone have any tips for keeping up? Is buying one of those expensive $65+ Roman Missals necessary? The nearest Latin Mass is kind of far for me to attend, so when I do choose to go, I’d like to make the most of it

halp

 

[POJIUJH]

I’ve been attending the Latin Mass here recently as well (it’s only once a month in almost the whole of N. Ireland) I know exactly what you mean. It’s such a different layout. I find it good to go by the "Dominus vobiscum"s if I get stuck, it means you can find where you’re at pretty quickly on the missal. It might also be a good idea to take one home and have a good read over it - if they let you. I walked out with 3 of them the first latin Mass I went to without noticing, the respect, reverence and beauty hit me so hard that I walked out barely aware if I was alive or dead

I suppose being latin ignorant really isn’t doing us any favors! I’m really going to try to learn as much of it as I can, somebody told me that their relation learnt it well enough to answer or serve the whole Mass (with creed ofc) fluently within a month of being taught it by his aunt. It might take me a little longer but I’d say it’s definitely worth it.

 

[YoungTradCath]

The Order of Mass is basically the same except for the first part of Mass and the very end, and also there are no Prayers of the Faithful/Bidding Prayers. (There can be, but I have not seen this permission exercised)

 

[ProVobis]

I try to follow what’s happening with this little red missal book available…sometimes I can keep up, sometimes keeping up with words the choir sings helps…but when the priest begins praying silently I get lost. Especially during the gospel parts…I think he said two gospels instead of one in Latin? Regardless, none of them were in that red booklet thingy.

The thin red missal booklets have propers all right but it’s only for one Sunday. (I believe it’s Trinity Sunday.) Some parishes or Una Voce groups might put out handouts for a given Sunday which would, of course, replace those propers. Other than that, if you plan to make the EF a regular event in your life, an investment in a 1962 missal might be in order, even if you do understand the Latin, because as you’ve indicated, many of the prayers are *submissa voce *(said silently) between the priest and God.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

So I’ve tried attending a few Latin Masses lately, and to be honest, I kind of like it better than the regular English Masses I’ve been attending for most of my life. But, I’m kind of getting confused a lot…

So the times I’ve attended, I think the High Mass was being celebrated, and all the candles were lit (six or seven). I try to follow what’s happening with this little red missal book available…sometimes I can keep up, sometimes keeping up with words the choir sings helps…but when the priest begins praying silently I get lost. Especially during the gospel parts…I think he said two gospels instead of one in Latin? Regardless, none of them were in that red booklet thingy.

I got by a little bit last time by glancing at the lady next to me to see which page she was at, but sometimes that wouldn’t help, and I’d get completely lost. I don’t think the choir is always singing what’s in that red missal either.

Anyone have any tips for keeping up? Is buying one of those expensive $65+ Roman Missals necessary? The nearest Latin Mass is kind of far for me to attend, so when I do choose to go, I’d like to make the most of it

halp

You don’t have to spend $65 for a missel. Go on to e-bay and enter Catholic Missal or English Latin Missal. What to look for is a Missal that was published before 1962. In many of these you will find instructions at the start of the Mass. You will find the Mass in Latin usually on the left hand page with a direct English translation on the right hand page.
You will also find instructions for both Low and High Masses.
You should be able to find a Missal for only a few $. Be patient, you will find one at a reasonable price!

 

[bobballen_18]

You’ve had some good suggestions given to you.

It seems to me that there isn’t really any other option aside from purchasing a missal, unless you just learn all you can via the internet, or something like that. It is not necessary to know Latin, although I suppose it could possibly be helpful.

If you don’t get a missal, then you’ll never have the correct prayers for the day. However, if the “red book” you are talking about is the one that I am thinking of, there should be an outline of the Mass in there. That book should be sufficient to keep you on track, to let you know where you are in the Mass. It should even have little pictures to show what the priest is doing, as well as some brief comments about what is happening.

Again, unless that “red book” does not do these things, then perhaps a purchase of a missal is in order, whether you find a cheap one or not.

 

[nannygirl]

Hi minion, I was once in your shoes, except I was a brand new Catholic, so the Mass was completely new to me. With your level of interest, it would really help you to get a missal. The 1962 or the Saint Andrew Daily Missal are good. Think of it as an investment and you’ll be able to follow every Mass. Find someone there who is using a missal and ask them to help you. They would be most happy to! Once you figure it out, it will be a piece of cake.

The red missal is fine if you want to get a sense of the Mass, but as others have said, you won’t have the readings of the day. Our church makes a print-out of all the Propers of the Sunday Mass for those who don’t have a missal. Again, I would recommend you ask someone to help you. I would be thrilled to help a “newbie” if they asked!

 

[minion]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone

So…I think if I can help it, I’ll be attending the Latin mass when I can, so I looked into getting a Missal, and got a bit overwhelmed from the selections…

Is there a “super” Roman Missal that will set me up for life? Or are missals something that have to be re-purchased every 3 years or so with updates? I’ve been hearing about all these different versions of missals to get, different publishers, different names, and I’m not really sure what the differences are.

For example, I hear that the 1962 Roman Missal is suggested a lot. But, the newest edition release, from what I understand, is the Daily Roman Missal, Third Edition…wouldn’t the newest release the best? Is there a difference between a “Roman Missal” and a “Daily Roman Missal?”

 

[nannygirl]

I have tried several different missals and my favorite by far is the Saint Andrews Daily Missal.
It’s very easy to figure out. I came out of Protestanism and straight into the Latin Mass. It took me awhile to know what was going on, but you just hang in there and you’ll pick it up bit by bit.
Here’s a link to the missal:

libers.com/sam.htm

I have used mine for 6 years. You don’t have to worry about updates. I think the main reason some missals are reprinted is to correct errors in previous editions.

 

[TrueLight]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone

So…I think if I can help it, I’ll be attending the Latin mass when I can, so I looked into getting a Missal, and got a bit overwhelmed from the selections…

Is there a “super” Roman Missal that will set me up for life? Or are missals something that have to be re-purchased every 3 years or so with updates? I’ve been hearing about all these different versions of missals to get, different publishers, different names, and I’m not really sure what the differences are.

For example, I hear that the 1962 Roman Missal is suggested a lot. But, the newest edition release, from what I understand, is the Daily Roman Missal, Third Edition…wouldn’t the newest release the best? Is there a difference between a “Roman Missal” and a “Daily Roman Missal?”

Just make sure whichever Missal you buy says “1962” if you are looking for a Missal for the traditional latin Mass.

 

[Denise1957]

So I’ve tried attending a few Latin Masses lately, and to be honest, I kind of like it better than the regular English Masses I’ve been attending for most of my life. But, I’m kind of getting confused a lot…

So the times I’ve attended, I think the High Mass was being celebrated, and all the candles were lit (six or seven). I try to follow what’s happening with this little red missal book available…sometimes I can keep up, sometimes keeping up with words the choir sings helps…but when the priest begins praying silently I get lost. Especially during the gospel parts…I think he said two gospels instead of one in Latin? Regardless, none of them were in that red booklet thingy.

I got by a little bit last time by glancing at the lady next to me to see which page she was at, but sometimes that wouldn’t help, and I’d get completely lost. I don’t think the choir is always singing what’s in that red missal either.

Anyone have any tips for keeping up? Is buying one of those expensive $65+ Roman Missals necessary? The nearest Latin Mass is kind of far for me to attend, so when I do choose to go, I’d like to make the most of it

halp

I can understand getting lost when the priest prays silently. It’s good to keep in mind that often when the choir is chanting, say, the propers such as the gradual or alleluia, the priest is actually saying another part of the Mass, which can be a bit confusing. So different parts of the Mass are being prayed simultaneously by the Priest and the choir, at a High Mass, that is. There usually is not a choir at a Low Mass. It was once explained by a priest in a catechism class that parts of the Mass are said simultaneously because this is how God works, in that he can work all things simultaneously.

I don’t think I’ve seen a case where the priest says two Gospels, Perhaps you’re thinking that the Epistle, which immediately preceeds that Gospel, is part of the Gospel. The Epistle, which is always read out loud by the priest (never silently) is read on the right side of the altar. The large missal book is then moved to the Gospel side of the altar (the left side), and then after saying, “Dominus Vobiscum,” the priest reads the Gospel out loud.

I would recommend just using the red booklet, for starters, but everyone is different in how they learn. I just found that it was earier for me to use the red booklet, and not worry about the propers at first. I had purchased a 1962 Baronius Press missal, but found it more difficult to use. After I was comfortable with the red missal booklet, I moved on to the Baronius Press missal. Here’s a website that does a good job of explaining the EF Mass:

sanctamissa.org/en/rubrics/

 

[AdDeum]

I can understand getting lost when the priest prays silently. It’s good to keep in mind that often when the choir is chanting, say, the propers such as the gradual or alleluia, the priest is actually saying another part of the Mass, which can be a bit confusing. So different parts of the Mass are being prayed simultaneously by the Priest and the choir, at a High Mass, that is. There usually is not a choir at a Low Mass. It was once explained by a priest in a catechism class that parts of the Mass are said simultaneously because this is how God works, in that he can work all things simultaneously.

sanctamissa.org/en/rubrics/

When the choir is singing the Kyrie, Gloria… That’s easy to distinguish from the propers… When they are singing the propers, you’re not going to find that in the little red booklet.

Someone mentioned earlier, listening for “Dominus Vobiscum”… Agree… also, you’ll hear often “per omnia saecula saeculorum”. That’ll help you follow along.

When the priest says the canon (silently), there are occasional “audible” cues you can use to help you follow along. “Orate Fratres” (the priest will also turn around for that as well), and “Nobis quoque peccatoribus”. Then, of course there are the bells, which make it easier to follow along.

After awhile, of course, you’ll become more accustomed to the EF, and you’ll learn to listen for the next cue. Not so much to try to “read along”, as just knowing where you’re at.

 

[ProVobis]

Is there a “super” Roman Missal that will set me up for life?

If only that were possible. I don’t want to discourage anyone from buying handmissals, but I still recall back in 1963 when our high school religion teacher warned us about buying any new missals. That same Christmas I received a St. Joseph’s Continuous Sunday Missal as a gift. Unfortunately I only got a very brief chance to use it fully; the changes came that fast. And more was to come. Part of those changes included a focus on listening rather than reading along. Many, of course, disagreed with this philosophy.

Whether that will happen again with the 62 Missal, no one knows. If prefaces or more saints are added, I don’t think that will force updating one’s handmissal, especially if they only use it on Sundays. But when the existing propers are changed or a new calendar is used, to say nothing of the ordinary prayers, then yes, all the current handmissals will be of much lower value.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

I completely understand what the OP is saying. Such was my first experience with the same little red books. They should have a warning on them for first-timers. The little red missals are designed for Low Mass, which, aside from the silent Canon, the priest and servers respond out loud for everything.

The way it works at High Mass (at least with the FSSP. The diocesan one I have attended does things a little differently, and I still get lost) is the Schola sings the introit while the priest and the servers are praying the prayers at the foot of the altar silently (visual cue, when the priest is bent over, he’s at the Confiteor. Once that is concluded, the priest goes up to the altar. Then while the schola is singing the kyrie, the priest is incensing the altar (usually- some diocesan priests don’t use incense). Then priest says the introit silently. When that is finished he intones the Gloria, which he says while the schola sings it. Prior to the Epistle, the priest sings the Collect, and then sings the Epistle (visual cue- if the priest is on the right side reading it’s not the gospel). After that, the choir will sing the gradual, tract, or alleluia depending on the liturgical calendar, while the priest will say it silently. Then he goes over to the Gospel side (left side, which is also where he reads the final gospel silently).

Then there’s the readings usually read again in the vernacular, announcements and the sermon. Then there’s the Creed. The priest says the creed silently while the schola sings it. You’ll notice the priest and altar boys kneel earlier than everyone else, which is because they’re ahead. Then the priest will come down to the steps and kneel when the schola gets to the incarnation of the creed.

I’m going to skip a lot of parts, but this is how it is. Basically the priest says the Mass while the schola sings the Mass parts that are usually sung. It takes some getting used to, and my advice is to attend a low Mass if possible a few times to get the hang of things. To add to the fun of the silent parts, priests tend to read it in rapid Latin so you can’t keep up with them trying to read it in English at the same time. I pretty much just gave up with using my Missal aside for the readings and just meditate through most parts. That’s the major difference between the OF and the EF. The OF is very vocal and you’re constantly having to respond and stuff, whereas the EF is more internal participation by meditating and then the most perfectly actively participating by worthy and prepared for communion reception.

You don’t have to spend $65 for a missel. Go on to e-bay and enter Catholic Missal or English Latin Missal. What to look for is a Missal that was published before 1962. In many of these you will find instructions at the start of the Mass. You will find the Mass in Latin usually on the left hand page with a direct English translation on the right hand page.
You will also find instructions for both Low and High Masses.
You should be able to find a Missal for only a few $. Be patient, you will find one at a reasonable price!

Be advised, there will be changes, especially during Holy Week. I bought my Missal off of eBay brand new from Baronius Press. Being from Canada, I couldn’t order an inexpensive copy of it at the time. Now I can, but they were being sold for over $100 online shipped within Canada. Anything from outside of Canada, was no cheaper once factoring duty fees, shipping, taxes, etc. As luck would have it, I was able to find one brand new from Ontario for $45.

 

[malphono]

What to look for is a Missal that was published before 1962.

Actually, it’d be one published before 1965 when the so-called “Interim Missal” appeared. One published before 1962 would reflect the editio typica of 1920 (amended, depending on when it was printed, to reflect the 1955 Holy Week “revisions”). Not a big difference (except perhaps for Holy Week) but a difference nonetheless from the 1962 editio typica.

 

[tradcathconvert]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone

So…I think if I can help it, I’ll be attending the Latin mass when I can, so I looked into getting a Missal, and got a bit overwhelmed from the selections…

Is there a “super” Roman Missal that will set me up for life? Or are missals something that have to be re-purchased every 3 years or so with updates? I’ve been hearing about all these different versions of missals to get, different publishers, different names, and I’m not really sure what the differences are.

For example, I hear that the 1962 Roman Missal is suggested a lot. But, the newest edition release, from what I understand, is the Daily Roman Missal, Third Edition…wouldn’t the newest release the best? Is there a difference between a “Roman Missal” and a “Daily Roman Missal?”

If the Daily Roman Missal, Third Edition is the one I think it is, it is for the OF of the Mass so won’t be much help at the EFof the Mass which uses the 1962 Missal. The 1962 Roman Missal is for the EF . So it would depend on which form of the Mass you would like to attend in Latin. The OF can be said in Latin, the EF must be.
Edited to add: In case you don’t know, the OF of the Mass is the one most Catholics attend that was promulgated by Pope Paul VI after Vatican II. It is most often celebrated in the local language of the people. The EF, as I said, uses the 1962 Missal which was that years update to the Missal first promulgated by Pope St. Pius V after the Council of Trent.

 

[MissRose73]

I do own a Baronius Press Missal. It did take time to learn how to do so. I am still getting used to it and will keep it for the rest of my life. It is a worthwhile investment if you plan to go to the TLM / EF Mass a lot.

However, for beginners, its best the first few times to sit near the back with the red Missal and observe others. That is what I did which helped. I still prefer to sit in the middle of the congregation so I can still watch when the others sit, stand, or kneel.

I did email a priest that does the EF exclusively so I would know a bit more:

***Hello,

Please introduce yourself to me when you come. If you would like, I can have someone sit with you to help you through the Mass.

As to your questions:

#1 - Both Masses are Catholic so Yes, you fulfill your Sunday duty.

#2 - It is very much appreciated if all dress in a modest and formal fashion as we are coming before our King. The head covering is not required, but many women still make use of it. you will not be judged if you do not have one, but if you do have one then you will be right at home if you wear it.

#3 - We have Latin/English books for you to use to follow along with. The book tells you what postures to make and yes, you can just follow the people (do not follow the servers as their postures differ from the people).

God Bless!***

 

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[Rich_C]

Just make sure whichever Missal you buy says “1962” if you are looking for a Missal for the traditional latin Mass.

Or “Pope John XXIII.” It means the same thing, in practical terms.

 

[minion]

Thanks all! Yes…I am preferring Latin Mass. The regular mass I just came from earlier this week had a priest making all these baseball references, and whirled a baseball shirt as he entered and left mass. :ehh:

So to keep in mind…

1. Get a 1962 Missal (Baronius or Angelus), or a Saint Andrews Daily Missal. Maybe get one after getting used to the little red missal?
2. Be aware the choir may not be singing what the priest is chanting quietly
3. Listen for the “Dominus Vobiscum”
4. Listen for the bells
5. Propers may change with calendar updates in Missal

So I guess that since the red missal doesn’t have all the prayers, most of the people without 1962 Missals are just doing their own prayer thing?

If the Daily Roman Missal, Third Edition is the one I think it is, it is for the OF of the Mass so won’t be much help at the EFof the Mass which uses the 1962 Missal. The 1962 Roman Missal is for the EF . So it would depend on which form of the Mass you would like to attend in Latin. The OF can be said in Latin, the EF must be.

Avoided a bullet, thanks Guess it’s kind of pointless to get a OF Missal if everything’s in English anyway?