Getting married to avoid sex out of marriage?

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Hello again.

Will bow out of thread after this post. Here are my comments which you are free to take or leave as you choose:

Ever heard of Moral Relativism? Is something so because you think it is so?
…but I’m afraid your understanding of what I believe about Hell isn’t correct.
Are you saying that the priest is saying that fornication, done with full knowledge and consent of the will, isn’t a mortal sin? No, sex outside of marriage IS a mortal sin if done with full knowledge, consent, and the sin being of serious matter, which fornication is…
Every time I go to confession and say that I’ve had sex and that I know it’s a mortal sin I get corrected by the priest. Sex outside of marriage has the potential to be a mortal sin, if you use it to cut yourself off from God.
Yes, there IS a list, called the Ten Commandments.
There are many mitigating factors that can make a potentially mortal sin not actually a mortal sin. There’s this misconception abounding that there are a list of mortal sins and if you have ever done any of them then you’re in a state of mortal sin, but that’s just simply not the case.
On whose terms is all of this going on, yours or God’s?
There is a list of mitigating factors as long as my arm (which, granted, isn’t a particularly long arm, but the measure of it will suffice 😉 ). Neither of us is cut off from God’s love because of mistakes we have made, because we make God’s love a part of our lives.
God wants us to be truly happy, that’s why He gave us moral guidelines, rules and laws. Are you saying not being repentant for one’s sins is silly?
The “do anything on the list of mortal sins and die before confession then go to hell” model is a parody and caricature of true Catholic teaching, which is nuanced.
Please, again, take or leave what I’ve had to say, since it’s just me talking. Please keep me in your prayers, as I will keep you in mine.
 
It is done with consent. Barring rape, sex is pretty much always done with consent, we don’t go “ooops, I just had sex with someone”.
Not to split too many hairs, but I daresay that getting blasted and then having sex with someone doesn’t constitute full consent of the will. That’s why I actually have more sympathy for folks like college students who get drunk and hook up than I do for otherwise believing Christians/Jews/Muslims, what have you, who are in long-term relationships and are quite intentional with their actions and believe it’s all out of “love.”

I’m not going to be condemning to the OP here but I think the best course of action has already been laid out. Make a plan and stick with it. Failing to do so constitutes a choice. God understands when you fall, though you still need to seek His forgiveness. But simply continuing the present path with no clear cut road to actually get yourself back to where you need to be is most certainly a choice of the will.
 
I don’t want to hijack the original poster’s thread, but I feel like there’s a good discussion here that I’d like to jump into. I am an unmarried 29 year old woman and I am in my first serious, very-loving, long-term relationship. I have always believed firmly that I would wait to have sex until after I was married. I agree with many of the Church’s teachings about the value of sex *within *marriage and I am also concerned about the practical issues of getting pregnant. However, I am now finding myself powerfully tempted to violate my previously established committment to abstain from sex before marriage.

Similar to the OP, my boyfriend has NEVER pressured me to do anything I’m uncomfortable with. He is extremely respectful of my values (though he is not Catholic himself) and, if anything, seems to deal better with the idea of no sex than I do. However, in addition to being emotionally and intellectually connected to my boyfrried, I am physically attracted to him, which is great 😉 but which leads me to want the relationship to also include an intimate, physical component. While I had no problem with the idea of abstinence before, this current situation has challenged me. It seems unrealistic to think that additional months or years will need to pass before we are able to connect physically - I don’t know that I can wait that long or that I will want to wait that long. While I respect the Church and it’s teachings, I can’t deny that it feels “wrong” that we are not able to express our love through this additional dimension. I worry that the stress of this inner, mental and emotional conflict will be detrimental to our relationship, which I am so thankful to God for leading me to.

I’m looking for advice and feedback that might help me discern what to do in my particular situation. I do not have any friends who share my values about sex and relationships, so I haven’t been able to bounce this off of anyone else. While I’m open to anyone’s opinion (I am posting on a public forum, of course), I do feel that the simple advice of “pre-marital sex is a sin,” probably won’t be particularly helpful for me. I know that, I’ve heard it before, and I am still grappling with what to do…

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and feedback.
 
I think the big thing to realize is that you won’t understand how thankful you will be for waiting until AFTER you are married. Your spouse is like no other person in the world. Boyfriends and even fiances may come and go and they will say they love you but only your spouse has stood in front of God and promised the rest of his life to you. Your spouse deserves more than what you gave a boyfriend or a fiance. And the same goes the other way around. You should be able to expect a deeper level of intimacy from your husband than anything he ever had with a former girlfriend or fiancee.

You won’t know how important waiting is until after you are married and you no longer have to wait. It may not be the easiest advice to comprehend right now, but trust me, you will see what I mean.
 
Also, use avoiding sex as something of a litmus test. If someone is willing to wait for marriage before they will have sex with you, then chances are they are in the relationship for you and not your body. If you are having sex with the person before marriage you cannot be totally sure that they want you purely for who you are.
 
I don’t want to hijack the original poster’s thread, but I feel like there’s a good discussion here that I’d like to jump into. I am an unmarried 29 year old woman and I am in my first serious, very-loving, long-term relationship.

**Im 29 and just came out of my first serious long term loving relationship. IM SO SO HAPPY I didn’t sleep with this guy. He was not my husband. I was not his… and although we loved each other we ended up not getting married for a variety of reasons. Do not sleep with your boyfriend. I promis you, after you sleep with him your question will no longer be a free: "Do I want to get married with this person? " but a attached and very vulnerable: “when will he marry me”. **

I have always believed firmly that I would wait to have sex until after I was married. I agree with many of the Church’s teachings about the value of sex *within *marriage and I am also concerned about the practical issues of getting pregnant. However, I am now finding myself powerfully tempted to violate my previously established committment.

Welcome to real life… most of us have been in that situation. If you give up your virginity outside your marriage you will only have a regret about that for the rest of your life as a Catholic. What you do when you are impure outside marriage is that you are simply stealing from yourself.

Similar to the OP, my boyfriend has NEVER pressured me to do anything I’m uncomfortable with. He is extremely respectful of my values (though he is not Catholic himself) and, if anything, seems to deal better with the idea of no sex than I do. However, in addition to being emotionally and intellectually connected to my boyfrried, I am physically attracted to him, which is great 😉

Again. We have been there or will be there sooner or later. Did you think you’d go through life without temptation is this area. Of course its most easy for women to be faithful to Jesus and His ways when we are single. Your hour has come. Will you be a peter who betrayed the Lord. I did… and I promis you, I would never wish such folly on any person. When you are innocent you cannot imagine that this will chance and that you will wake up one day and realize you gave your virginity to a guy whom you don’t know if you will be with down the road. And even if you will… you have disrespected yourself and will bear resentment towards the guy too for taking such a precious thing from you.

It seems unrealistic to think that additional months or years will need to pass before we are able to connect physically - I don’t know that I can wait that long or that I will want to wait that long.

If you are ready to have children, and you know you want to be with this man for the rest of your life then why not get married today? I think you are not ready for any of the things that you would express with your body if you had sex.

While I respect the Church and it’s teachings,

What about Jesus. How is your relationship with Him? Do you even know why you have waited until now?

I can’t deny that it feels “wrong” that we are not able to express our love through this additional dimension. I worry that the stress of this inner, mental and emotional conflict will be detrimental to our relationship.

Why would it be detrimental to your relationship that you use the time getting to know each other instead of ending up in bed? If your relationship now cannot handle purity, how will it go when you are married? You say you are Catholic so I assume you know that condoms and pills are not valid moral choices.

I’m looking for advice and feedback that might help me discern what to do in my particular situation.

You are wearing rose-coloured glasses and your are full of hormones. How many men and women sleep with their boyfriends and girlfriends because they think its the big love, and then the relationship turns sour. And I’ll tell you a secret. Often when sex gets involved the relationship isnt free and pure anymore, but people start becoming jealous, possessive and no longer free to walk away if the other person turns out to be a bad match. I don’t know if you ever heard about oxytocin… but its THE bonding hormone which is released in the brain when you have sex with someone. Its called the glue-hormone because it makes you attached to that person and unable to see their faults. God created this hormone because married sex is suppossed to glue people together… but outside of marriage this bonding is dangerous. Many young people get real depressions when they are abandoned by their sex-partner because of this hormone, it feels like divorce. That same hormone is released in the brains of mothers while giving birth so they will bond with the baby and take care of it. You see? Its a design meant for lasting and comitted relationships…

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and feedback.

Please don’t steal from yourself. In 1-2 years these emotions wont be so strong anymore. You might not be with the man anymore. Even if you are, how will you be a role model to your friends and future children if you give your body away outside marriage? Courtship is a time to get to know each other in freedom and honesty. Long after this temptation has come and gone you will be faced with Jesus Christ for eternity. Dont hurt yourself! I say this because I have been exactly in your shoes… and oh the blindness that leads us to thinking that our actions wont change who we are!
 
Hi,
I stumbled upon this post and wanted to reply because I sort of DID what you are describing… My husband and I were NOT chaste prior to marriage… there were times when we were “trying” to abstain and I felt much like you. We got married at a young age - I was 22, He was 25. He isn’t Catholic. We have been married two and half years.

I love my husband to death - BUT I will say our marriage (I suppose like many) has its problems. For one- NFP… He doesn’t understand/cannot always abstain and pressures me when we are supposed to be abstaining. SO… we now have a 6 month old baby girl 🙂

I also feel other problems - At the point in my life when I met my husband, I wasn’t living out my faith (obviously by having pre-marital sex for one) As I am reverting back to the ways I was brought up, my husband is sort of staying how he was when we met…He has kicked some habits but not all - and it hasn’t been easy! If you are having sex now out of marriage - (and he is as well) think about if this man is truly a Godly man you want to be your husband, and father to your family.

And Pray, Pray, Pray.
 
Getting married to have sex is like flying cross country so you can eat the “free” inflight peanuts.
 
Hello.

…simply trying to understand your post – I’m sort of dense and need things spelled out for myself very clearly, very often.

Are you implying that marriage is a huge undertaking while sex only has the meaning of
" ‘free’ (inflight) peanuts?"

I honestly don’t quite understand what you’re trying to say here. Please explain.

Thanks for listening and please pray for me.
Getting married to have sex is like flying cross country so you can eat the “free” inflight peanuts.
 
…sort of feel compelled to add two points here–>

first point on what makes up a mortal sin–>

3 things necessary for a sin to be mortal:
  1. Serious matter (of which fornication is)
  2. Knowledge or firm belief that the act is seriously wrong prior to committing the act
  3. Full consent of the will.
Every time I go to confession and say that I’ve had sex and that I know it’s a mortal sin I get corrected by the priest.
second point–>

I did marry, in part, to avoid sex out of marriage. I was being sexual in multiple relationships at the same time. I then went through a horrible time when I acknowledged the kind of life I was leading, and, through God’s grace, met my husband, and since, though it’s been a long (20 + years), difficult journey, things have improved steadily, and over the past 6 years, I’ve even experienced a sort of re-conversion. Now, more and more, I see the wisdom in God’s teachings. I also understand that this world is full of a lot of convoluted lies and rationalizations to keep us on the dark side of things and that anger is often a reaction to the truth.

But running to God wherever, whenever there is sin, despair, discord, ignorance, or similar things is always a good idea. I like the idea of sitting in God’s lap or being at His feet, which is where I really need to be.

I’m also sorry I sound so rigid and insensitive, but it’s better to hear the truth sooner rather than later. I don’t want anyone to ever suffer like I have.

my two cents…may adjust it to three cents later on due to inflation…
 
I think you are putting your potential baby in a bad position. Your baby deserves to be conceived by married parents.😦

Chastity is hard, especially at 21 when you develop very strong emotions towards the person you are being intimate with. These emotions feel great, but they should come *after *you’ve discerned “This man will get me to heaven, and I will get him to heaven” and then committed in a marriage.

I did it backwards, although I was a technical virgin when we go married, we definitely were intimate in ways that were sinful. Although we are in the correct track now, it’s hard to discern when you have all those emotions attached to sexuality involved.

Instead of rushing into a marriage, I think you should take a break from intimacy. Discern if this man will help you on the path to heaven. It’s easier without the “hormones”

I mean this in charity, I hope I don’t seem mean.:o
I absolutely agree with Mary Gail! How do you know if this man can and will lead you to heaven if you are both fornicating already? Don’t you believe in chastity? So take some time apart from one another to think about putting God first in your relationship. Take care and God bless!
 
I absolutely agree with Mary Gail! How do you know if this man can and will lead you to heaven if you are both fornicating already? Don’t you believe in chastity? So take some time apart from one another to think about putting God first in your relationship. Take care and God bless!
We have to really try hard not to post on a thread that has been dormant for a long time. This thread hasn’t had new responses since October 10, 2012. Please don’t dredge up old thread because it just causes confusion. Read them all you like, but when you start responding,:nope::tsktsk:
 
I’ve only read the first and last page of this thread.

I’m 55, been married 34 years this summer, and dated my husband for 6 years before we got married. We were virgins on our wedding night, although we had done some pretty heavy making out.

A lot of posters on this thread have said some very wise words, and I urge the OP to study these.

Perhaps someone has already said what I’m going to say, but I’ll go ahead and say it. Desire for sex decreases after couples are married.

Oh, I know there are exceptions. There are people on CAF who say that they still have sex with their spouse three or four times a week. Wow. I marvel at these couples.

But for most couples, the chores and responsibilities of daily life, along with the pressing need to stick to a budget, and the constant disasters that occur in a family (basement flooding, mice in the house, car breaking down, kid in conflict with school teacher, Grandma getting a serious illness, dog dying, etc.) make it very difficult for a couple to drum up the time and energy to have sex. It becomes just another chore to many women and even to some men.

Women especially suffer from what clinicians call “Lack of desire.” Once children arrive, many women have a hard time getting interested in a roll in the sack, because their minds are so full of all the responsibilities that they are shouldering. The To Do List is endless and overwhelming for many women, and even when the husband helps out, it’s still exhausting. Many women don’t want sex at night–they just want a few hours of sleep, and resent the demand for sex that deprives them of 20 minutes of sleep.

Now I think that a wise woman will figure out a way to accommodate her husband’s needs, and sacrifice that 20 minutes of sleep to make love. But many women don’t learn how to do that until they are older and their children are not so dependent on them and they have a little more free time. And when they get to that point, many women learn, to their dismay, that their husbands are now experiencing “middle-aged health issues” that make it difficult for a man to have sex. 😦

Sex is an art–couples have to learn how to manage a sex life! Everything in our society teaches us that monogamy is boring, so Christian couples have to figure out how to defeat that fallacy and make sex more fun and exciting through the years and various phases of their lives. A lot of couples give up once the honeymoon phase is over. (50 percent divorce rate in the U.S.)

So…in summary, don’t marry because you want to have “licit” sex. You are thinking that things will go on the way they are right now and you will always have the hots for each other, but that’s not the way it works in most cases. The desire for sex will diminish, and then your marriage will flounder because you’ll think that you’re not in love with each other anymore. My question for you is, “Are you really in love with each other right now, or are you in love with the excitement of a relationship in which sex is always simmering under the surface and occasionally boils over?”

If I were the two of you, I would ask a counselor to give you both one of the Marriage Assessment tests." These tests assess the compatibility of two people, and help them to p(name removed by moderator)oint areas of potential conflict and incompatibility. Sometimes, the areas of incompatibility are deal-breakers–better to make that decision before a wedding rather than after. The Assessment will help you to determine whether you really have grounds for a marriage, or whether you are just infatuated with each other and using each other for sexual pleasure.

Good luck to both of you. Godspeed.
 
I don’t think you’re ready to get married yet. I would give you the advice to take this time to practice your faith more, while still dating your current guy. I know sooo many Catholics whose marriages have ended in divorce/annullment because they were not fully practicing their faith; then one party of the marriage decided to practice their faith to a “t”, resulting in dissolution of the marriage when the other party wanted to keep things “just as they were.” If you are going to marry this man, and he is not a practicing Catholic, but you want to be, I think you should discuss at length what this would mean once you get married. Sometimes when people are in love, they will promise one thing, only to realize they don’t really have the ability or desire to actually do so. You are young and if you truly love one another, you will work things out.
 
Well, first off, readiness for children is not a prerequisite for marriage. The most often used example of an appropriate reason to use NFP is a couple that’s still in college and not ready to have children yet.

However, that being said, while having a child right now wouldn’t be ideal, we would be equipped to handle it should one come. He makes enough money to support a family and I have been a nanny for 4 families. We’ve discussed it.

Currently we don’t use any artificial birth control, and never have (which I know seems stupid; if you’re already fornicating it can’t hurt too much more to use a condom, but I just can’t stand the thought of our sex being anything less than a gift of the self, including the possibility of procreation).
How does a 24 year old single man and a 21 year old single woman have the intricacies and methods of NFP down? Are you charting?
 
I’ve only read the first and last page of this thread.

I’m 55, been married 34 years this summer, and dated my husband for 6 years before we got married. We were virgins on our wedding night, although we had done some pretty heavy making out.

A lot of posters on this thread have said some very wise words, and I urge the OP to study these.

Perhaps someone has already said what I’m going to say, but I’ll go ahead and say it. Desire for sex decreases after couples are married.

Oh, I know there are exceptions. There are people on CAF who say that they still have sex with their spouse three or four times a week. Wow. I marvel at these couples.

But for most couples, the chores and responsibilities of daily life, along with the pressing need to stick to a budget, and the constant disasters that occur in a family (basement flooding, mice in the house, car breaking down, kid in conflict with school teacher, Grandma getting a serious illness, dog dying, etc.) make it very difficult for a couple to drum up the time and energy to have sex. It becomes just another chore to many women and even to some men.

Women especially suffer from what clinicians call “Lack of desire.” Once children arrive, many women have a hard time getting interested in a roll in the sack, because their minds are so full of all the responsibilities that they are shouldering. The To Do List is endless and overwhelming for many women, and even when the husband helps out, it’s still exhausting. Many women don’t want sex at night–they just want a few hours of sleep, and resent the demand for sex that deprives them of 20 minutes of sleep.

Now I think that a wise woman will figure out a way to accommodate her husband’s needs, and sacrifice that 20 minutes of sleep to make love. But many women don’t learn how to do that until they are older and their children are not so dependent on them and they have a little more free time. And when they get to that point, many women learn, to their dismay, that their husbands are now experiencing “middle-aged health issues” that make it difficult for a man to have sex. 😦

Sex is an art–couples have to learn how to manage a sex life! Everything in our society teaches us that monogamy is boring, so Christian couples have to figure out how to defeat that fallacy and make sex more fun and exciting through the years and various phases of their lives. A lot of couples give up once the honeymoon phase is over. (50 percent divorce rate in the U.S.)

So…in summary, don’t marry because you want to have “licit” sex. You are thinking that things will go on the way they are right now and you will always have the hots for each other, but that’s not the way it works in most cases. The desire for sex will diminish, and then your marriage will flounder because you’ll think that you’re not in love with each other anymore. My question for you is, “Are you really in love with each other right now, or are you in love with the excitement of a relationship in which sex is always simmering under the surface and occasionally boils over?”

If I were the two of you, I would ask a counselor to give you both one of the Marriage Assessment tests." These tests assess the compatibility of two people, and help them to p(name removed by moderator)oint areas of potential conflict and incompatibility. Sometimes, the areas of incompatibility are deal-breakers–better to make that decision before a wedding rather than after. The Assessment will help you to determine whether you really have grounds for a marriage, or whether you are just infatuated with each other and using each other for sexual pleasure.

Good luck to both of you. Godspeed.
11 years 4 kids and 2-3 times a week. 😉 Marvel away!!!😃
 
It’s never good to rush into a marriage, which is why the Church has marriage preparation courses and a 6 month waiting period.

A Catholic marriage is serious and isn’t like playing house.

I understand you are working on the fornication. It’s a tough thing to do, but no matter the amount or type of struggles in your relationship, you need more than just wanting to have sex for a marriage. I think I’ll let your confessor determine what is and isn’t a mortal sin, but just remember it is a grave matter.
 
I think the problem is this -
  1. If he is not the one, than you are sexually giving yourself away to another man and thus when you meet the real mister right, it wouldn’t be fair to him what you are doing now.
  2. If he is the right one, than you should marry one another, as it’s not right to give yourself to one another physcially(sexually) and hold back mentally(the commitment to one another until death do you part).
Marrriage is the full giving of one self to the other which is both mentally and physically. Currently you are giving yourself to him physically (sexually) and holding back mentally(marriage commitment) while ever you are in your current situation without marriage. It’s not fair for him to do that to you, or for you to do that to him.

The question is, are you willing to give yourself to one another mentally as well? and if not, why are you giving yourself to one another physically (sexually)? It isn’t right. Through the sexual act you are giving yourself to him, while he and/or you are holding back any real mental commitment of love.

Do not build a relationship on fornication, such a relationship is one built on weak grounds. You should be careful not to confuse love with appeasing sexual desires.

It is just pleasure seeking and not love to hold back the mental giving of oneself to the other and thus why fornication is wrong, because the sexual activity is to appease sexual desires rather than greater uniting the union in love.

Do not get confused between appeasing sexual desires and love between one another.

The difference between prostitution and fornication is that the payoff’s are different for each party.

The payoff for prostitution for one party is money and for the other it is appeasing sexual desires. (One uses the other to appease sexual desires)

The payoff for fornication is a mutual payoff between both parties for appeasing sexual desires. (You both use one another to appease sexual desires). Don’t let it turn into that.

I hope this helps you.

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
… I’m in a great relationship with a wonderful man. Our respect for one another is phenomenal; we click intellectually and emotionally. And we communicate fantastically. We have tried hard and many times to be chaste, sometimes for months at a time, but we always fail. It’s very disheartening. Now please don’t get all up in arms and conflate what goes on with pure lust. While I can’t say that lust doesn’t play a part, what we share sexually is an expression of love, commitment and intimacy first and foremost. I think that’s what makes it harder to abstain. .
Adrianna, Bless you for trying to find a way to do the right thing. What you said above is pretty much the same situation that I am in but I am older (I have a son age 17). They are a lot of lines we have not crossed because we both do hold back (and we intend to hold back more than we have!) but yet we keep slipping into unchaste behavior. We do well for a time, then, there we go again. We go to confession as you do, but we take seriously that we need to intend to amend our ways, otherwise, the confession is invalid, right? It is.

My priest said to me sternly in my last confession on this, “Avoid the near occasion of sin.” And I know that, and we have tried, but hearing it from the priest in confession is like Jesus saying that to me. Pretty serious.

I am presently avoiding occasion of sin with no effort since we live long distance and I cannot see him again til summer. But I need to plan now how I am going to avoid it better than I have been this summer. I think maybe make a list together of where we draw the line and read it out-loud together everyday and ask the Lord together everyday to help us keep these intentions. Because we have spoken where we should cross the line then are careful to avoid it particularly when we first get together or just after confession, however, when we get together again and are seeing each other everyday and NOT discussing what our limits, we eventually fall off the wagon and trespass the limits we set. So maybe we need to make a point to review our limits everyday and ask God together for his help with it. My visit this summer will be longer than usual as I am helping him prepare his house for sale. We have spent all my visits there working very hard, and always only go to one Mass a week (the Sunday) because of all the work. But I think also if we do push the limits even with this plan, we should call the priest to confess that day and start going to Daily Mass together, askign God to sustain us with the Sacrament. Thats Plan B in case Plan A is not enough.

We are waiting for his annulment and the tiresomeness of slipping in our determination to be chaste and then going to confession then trying again makes us want to marry asap. We don’t even want a wedding now. All you need is a priest and two witnesses when you are Catholic! I realize its different for you, who are young. The two of us had lovely weddings with our first marriages, and, that seems more fitting when you will be having children, as you of course will.

You are waiting because you are not sure, you say, because of divorce. Maybe the aloneness of not being intimate with your sweetheart will help you solve that problem - you will be forced to think on it and take it to the Lord. Perhaps take a weekend (or even a week) of silent retreat (with a talk with a priest or a nun there) at a monastery so you can contemplate God’s will in this matter because you really are at a crossroads as you can’t keep making love to your boyfriend.

To me it seems if you have found your soulmate and you share the faith and he can support you, you have all the important reasons to marry. When you are confident this is right, your family, though they might protest at first, when they see your determination, will support you. But you lack that determination, perhaps only because of fear, perhaps an unfounded one. I cannot help but think that the fear you developed as a child experience the pain of her parent’s divorce is something Jesus needs to heal you of.

But being intimate with your sweetheart is a distraction from seeking time alone with God and seeking his will. So this is the other way this trespass is hurting you.
 
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