Getting my Marys straight

  • Thread starter Thread starter Redbaron998
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Redbaron998

Guest
Hey yall,

I need a lil help getting this stright cause I am slow like that.

Ok so we got The Blessed Virgin Mary, that one is easy.

So then we have her sister Mary the wife of Cleophas (John 19:25)

is this the same Mary the mother of James and Joseph (Matthew 27:56)

and is that the same mother of Zebedee’s sons? or is that a different person.

and are there any more besides Mary Magdalene?

Just need a hand putting this all toghether, thanks a lot.

May the Lord grant you His peace.
 
Hi Redbaron,
A good question. According to my concordance:

'In the NT 6 women bear this name:
  1. The Virgin Mary
  2. Mary Magdalene (St Matt 27:56)
  3. Mary of Bethany (St Luke 10:39) sister of Martha and Lazarus
  4. Mother of John Mark (Acts 12:12)
  5. Wife of Cleophas (St John 19:25)
  6. A Christian of Rome (Rom 16:6)’
Hope this helps.
God Bless,
Colmcille.
 
Mary the mother of James and Joses is considered by most Catholics to be the same as Mary wife of Clopas.

This Mary is also thought to be the one temed “sister” (kinswoman) of the Virgin Mary. hence her sons were kinsmen, (so-called “brothers”) of Jesus.

Clopas himself is thought to be the same person also referred to as Alphaeus, which links the relationships up neatly.
 
newadvent.org/fathers/0125.htm

Papias Fragment X - The work of Papias was evidently written in his old age, say between the years 115 and 140.

X
(1.) Mary the mother of the Lord; (2.) Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphæus, who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus, and of one Joseph; (3.) Mary Salome, wife of Zebedee, mother of John the evangelist and James; (4.) Mary Magdalene. These four are found in the Gospel. James and Judas and Joseph were sons of an aunt (2) of the Lord’s. James also and John were sons of another aunt (3) of the Lord’s. Mary (2), mother of James the Less and Joseph, wife of Alphæus was the sister of Mary the mother of the Lord, whom John names of Cleophas, either from her father or from the family of the clan, or for some other reason. Mary Salome (3) is called Salome either from her husband or her village. Some affirm that she is the same as Mary of Cleophas, because she had two husbands.
 
Lol wow. Ask and you shall receive…I was just trying to get my Mary’s straight the other night. This fragment from Papias is gold.
 
Short answer is there are a number (no pun intended) of possibilities and we do not know for certain. . . .at minimum 5, could be as many as 8 . . .
 
Redbaron998 said:
Hey yall,

I need a lil help getting this stright cause I am slow like that.

Ok so we got The Blessed Virgin Mary, that one is easy.

So then we have her sister Mary the wife of Cleophas (John 19:25)

is this the same Mary the mother of James and Joseph (Matthew 27:56)

and is that the same mother of Zebedee’s sons? or is that a different person.

and are there any more besides Mary Magdalene?

Just need a hand putting this all toghether, thanks a lot.

May the Lord grant you His peace.
Click to expand...
I found Ray Browns talks on Marys in the NT helpful:thumbsup:
welcomerecordings.com/product_details.php?category_id=48&item_id=6
 
Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich describes the various women mentioned in the Gospels in the book, The Dolorous Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in The Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary. According to her:

Mary, the wife of Cleophas, is the Virgin Mary’s older sister (Jn 19:25).

Mary Cleophas is her daughter, the Virgin Mary’s niece (Jn 19:25), and the mother of Jude, Simon the Zealot, and James the Less, and the step-mother of Matthew the Gospel writer.

Mary Salome was the mother of James and John, the sons of Zebedee.

Another Mary was the mother of John Mark, the Gospel writer.

Mary Magdalene was the sister of Martha and Lazarus was their brother (John 11). Magdalene was a wealthy woman, a sinner but not a prostitute (as many believe).
 
Ron Conte:
Mary, the wife of Cleophas, is the Virgin Mary’s older sister (Jn 19:25).
Click to expand...
Interesting. That would make void all of the old tradition that Mary’s mother Anna and father Joachim were childless (as were the prototypical parents of Samuel) and that Anna’s pregnancy was miraculous (in that it came in her old age, like her cousin Elizabeth) And that, that is why the child was promised to God from birth, and delivered to the temple at age 3. In any event several visionaries of the past have declared that the Blessed Virgin Mary was an only child.

Of course that could still be true, if we understand Catherine’s meaning to be an older sister, not by blood, but by virtue of the fact that she cared for the BVM’s parents, while Mary was in the Temple.
 
Archeological research of ossuaries and other sources indicates that about 25% of the women in the first century were named Mary. Jesus was also a common name.
 
Oldtimer_7 said:
Archeological research of ossuaries and other sources indicates that about 25% of the women in the first century were named Mary. Jesus was also a common name.
Click to expand...
That doesn’t mean that parents would name their own two daughters with the same name. I doubt if that occurs anywhere on earth at any time.
 
I know that for men, the convention was to say “Son of”, in Hebrew, ben or bar. Jesus addresses Peter as Simon, son of Jonah in Matthew 16:17.
DRC: Matthew Chapter 16

[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.
[17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

Do we know of women’s naming conventions? A number of men in the Bible had two names, John Mark comes to mind. Joseph, also known as Barnabas, is another (Acts 4:36). Is there any example of women being known by two names? I think of something along the lines of Mary Ann, Mary Beth, Mary Catherine.
 
AmbroseSJ said:
Interesting. That would make void all of the old tradition that Mary’s mother Anna and father Joachim were childless (as were the prototypical parents of Samuel) and that Anna’s pregnancy was miraculous (in that it came in her old age, like her cousin Elizabeth) And that, that is why the child was promised to God from birth, and delivered to the temple at age 3. In any event several visionaries of the past have declared that the Blessed Virgin Mary was an only child.

Of course that could still be true, if we understand Catherine’s meaning to be an older sister, not by blood, but by virtue of the fact that she cared for the BVM’s parents, while Mary was in the Temple.
Click to expand...
Blessed Emmerich states that the Virgin Mary’s older sister was conceived by Anna and Joachim, as her literal sister, not a relative. This is abundantly clear in Emmerich’s works.

It seems that the Virgin Mary and her older sister did not have the same name, but when those two names are Anglicized, they both end up as ‘Mary’.

Emmerich says that Anna and Joachim had great difficulty conceiving, and were childless for a time before their first daughter, and then many years (about 19) passed before their second child, the Virgin Mary. So Anna was relatively old (for the times) when she conceived the Virgin Mary, but she was not elderly.

Which sources state that Anna and Joachim had only one child?
 
AmbroseSJ said:
That doesn’t mean that parents would name their own two daughters with the same name. I doubt if that occurs anywhere on earth at any time.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Oct. 25 we commemorated some martyrs of the Spanish Civil War -

Sr. Maria Josefa Romana Celestina Masia Ferragud, her three (birth) sisters, Maria Jesus,
Maria Veronica and Maria Felicidad, and their mother Maria Teresa Ferragud Roig. . . .
 
NHInsider said:
Hmm. Oct. 25 we commemorated some martyrs of the Spanish Civil War -

Sr. Maria Josefa Romana Celestina Masia Ferragud, her three (birth) sisters, Maria Jesus,
Maria Veronica and Maria Felicidad, and their mother Maria Teresa Ferragud Roig. . . .
Click to expand...
That’s not the same thing, also notice that the names are all different, although they use Maria as prefix. I have no doubt that the daughters were all known by their separate names in the family and among friends. Your exception proves the rule. 😉
 
Maybe. My daughter’s m-i-l, who is Mexicana, is Maria Antonietta. To friends and family she’s Tonia. To everyone else, she’s Maria. I don’t pretend to know how people in first century Palestine kept track of one another, but it’s entirely possible that within the family you might be known as Salome or Hannah but for legal/formal purposes your name was still Miriam.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top