Getting out of the Friend-zone w/o sinning

[LaughingBoy1503]

Ok, I guess I better clarify my situation better. I am not in a rural area. I live in a suburb of Detroit, MI and I work in Detroit as an engineer and make good money. I’m willing to drive as long as it’s not more than a couple hours away. I also think I’m pretty good looking. I have several interesting hobbies and I’m serious about my Catholic faith. I actually HAVE tried giving some of those women a chance although I’m 5’ 4" and skinny but most of those women were bigger or overweight and one had bipolar. I really need a woman who is shorter and smaller, like me (and I’m not ashamed of my height either). In all of those cases, however, it was her- not I- that ended the conversation. And 3 times I’ve had a woman tell me she felt more called to the religious life. I’m so frustrated because I think everything would be in my favor overwhelmingly but it’s not for some unknown reason and I don’t know why

Conversations??? Those do not count. Getting a phone number and meeting in real life count. Here is what you do. Get on Catholicmatch if you are not already. Message every single woman who you have a spark of interest in. You cannot do this all in one day, or week or even month (maybe not even season, we all have obligations to take care of) but keep going until you get a message back. Ask for a phone number after a week of corresponding. One week. If she says no, she is not interested. You want to get off the internet and into phone convos and a real date asap. If you have had all these conversations but never one date, you are not asking to meet up quick enough. Now, I could be wrong, but I am a online dating veteran so I do not think so in this case. Try it. You will get a date eventually. You just have no dating experience. I was a late bloomer too. I had one date when I was 18 then I did not really begin dating regularly (If you call a few times a year regularly that is ) Until 27 I believe.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

You aren’t wrong for prefering to date someone smaller than you, most people have this preference but when you are a shorter male or taller female it can be very limiting. It isnt fair of course as you cant change other people from having this preference and taller men/shorter women can go through life without ever challenging this. Attraction isnt really fair. I would at least consider meeting women who are taller and give them a chance, at least challenge yourself on this.

As a Catholic you need to think how important is a shared faith. I agree with Syro, you might be better of meeting women in a religious environment and getting to know them rather than going online with a long checklist of what you want that only leaves a tiny pool of women.

 

[Elena321]

I’m not aware of kissing being a sin?

No priests where I am have suggested it is a sin and most people of my background are Catholic and have of course naturally kissed before marriage.
I don’t think having sexual feelings is a sin either -it is the acting on it part before marriage that is a sin.

That said though,you want to make sure you read the woman’s signs correctly.
Ie:you don’t want to put her in a uncomfortable situation by trying to kiss her if she REALLY feels you are just friend.

I would focus less on her (at least for now) and generally just build up confidence of how to relate with women.

Like others mentioned,there are other ways to show women you like them apart from a kiss ( not that kissing is wrong) but if you find you are receiving a pattern of being continually rejected as “friend zone” by many women then I would try to work on your interactions with women and maybe like someone suggested an acting course or something?

 

[pianistclare]

The Catholic woman who practices and is willing to date you is hard enough, don’t add things that are not even what you really care about. Sure, you should be attracted to each other. Other than that, most of the other stuff you won’t know until you talk. She might attend Mass every day, but you may find out she disagrees with 65% of Church teaching. She might attend once a week, and through a conversation you’ll find out she’s extremely caring and volunteers 4days a week feeding the homeless.

Hey, another idea. Why not forget the dating thing, volunteer at places that need help, like soup kitchens, Catholic child care, etc… can’t not meet a caring individual at these places. If not the person working side-by-side you, I’m sure they have relatives and friends.

Excellent advice.
Some people approach finding a mate in the same way they shop for a car.
It doesn’t work that way.

 

[twf]

A little bit.

Towering is one thing, but taller is another. (Says the woman that is a couple of inches taller than her husband. ) You may be missing out on some wonderful woman just because she is taller… If it doesn’t bother her, why should it bother you?

It does bother many women though. There is certainly nothing wrong with a taller woman being with a shorter man- but typically it’s the reverse. I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to have preferences.

 

[Xantippe]

It does bother many women though. There is certainly nothing wrong with a taller woman being with a shorter man- but typically it’s the reverse. I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to have preferences.

The OP says “I’ve also been on 13 different online dating sites over the course of six years searching for the right woman, but none of the women I tried contacting replied. Other women messaged me first and we’ve talked but I haven’t felt attracted to any of them.”

So, whatever he’s doing, I think he needs to try something different. Literally none of the women he finds attractive on online dating sites are interested in him and it doesn’t sound like he’s been having actual dates.

One possible step would be making sure to at least have coffee with every single practicing Catholic single woman in his area who will agree to it. I’d limit that to the women he thinks are average in looks. A lot of people are more attractive and charming in person than in photographs.

OP, what do you have to lose?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

The best way to get out of the “friend zone” is to not go there in the first place. Yep, that means you have to create sexual/romantic tension early - before she writes you off and finds someone who does. Going in for a well-timed kiss or holding her hand are two of many ways to do this.

But if you have a young woman in mind who is already a friend, don’t do this. That’s gross and creepy and will end the friendship. Once she’s said she just wants to be friends, either accept the friendship for what it is, or cut ties. But don’t try to leverage the friendship into more.

 

[twf]

The best way to get out of the “friend zone” is to not go there in the first place. Yep, that means you have to create sexual/romantic tension early - before she writes you off and finds someone who does. Going in for a well-timed kiss or holding her hand are two of many ways to do this.

But if you have a young woman in mind who is already a friend, don’t do this. That’s gross and creepy and will end the friendship. Once she’s said she just wants to be friends, either accept the friendship for what it is, or cut ties. But don’t try to leverage the friendship into more.

Not always the case. I was friends with my wife for a few months before we ever went on a romantic date. I’ve actually never gone straight into dating (as in, met a woman and started dating her immediately)…the two relationships I had before marriage both started as friendships as well. I’ve always had a lot of women friends. The friend zone isn’t always permanent.

 

[KiwiBliss]

Hello everyone

I’m a 25 year old Catholic engineer and I feel called to marriage but have never been in a serious relationship or even on a real first date for that matter. I read a book called “How to Get out of the Friend-Zone” and it was amazingly accurate to my situation of being seen only as a friend by the women I want to date. This book, although very helpful, contains several references that go against Catholic teaching. Most immorality in the book, thankfully, can be overlooked and the main take-away points and advice can be safely applied. The main thing I see as a problem, however, is the part about needing to get physical and actually work up the courage to kiss a girl. The book suggests that one of the main reasons for being stuck in the friend-zone is due to not kissing or being physical so I’m supposed to change that to leave the friend-zone. I can definitely see truth in that but I know passionate kissing as well as some other forms of physical affection outside marriage are gravely sinful and I’ve never kissed anyone my whole life. I want to save my first kiss for marriage but I also want to get out of the friend-zone. It’s a catch-22. Does anyone have any idea how I can have my cake and eat it too

Thank you for reading and God bless

You are not alone. Your frustrations while still in the single years of waiting are definitely understandable. We are a rare percentage out there in the world & searching.

I’m still in it at age 24, female, & still in college. Although I’ve been on face-to-face 1st dates with acquaintance gentlemen & one 3-week relationship, moving things forward with a guy makes me anxious. These guys dated me for alternative motives & I didn’t realize it until later. I was so naïve then to assume (in the pure sense) that one of those guys were the right man (some were protestant, but I was expecting catholic). I regret quickly giving away my first kiss to a guy who impatiently didn’t deserve it, when I would usually save it for the wedding day. This is why it’s SO important to take things slow & really get to know someone (not just anyone, but a compatible Christly fit) as a good friend first (to see God reveal to you what their true intentions are). I’ve wasted years trying to find “the One,” praying daily for Him, & bettering myself for that moment, only to now experience Jesus desiring to presently work with me behind the scenes in the waiting; sharing to Him everything that I’m thinking, feeling, nervous about, whatever it is, I know He’s listening & presently there. I’ve explored the religious life, thinking that perhaps God had something else in mind, but it’s not for me, BUT, I learned a lot from the religious how to live a selfless & authentic marriage for God one day between God+1husband+1wife=fruitfulness. I had to open the window of my comfort zone for fresh air and jump out of it to embrace God’s fearless journey full of faith, hope, & love. I’m still impatient with this journey sometimes, especially when I meet good catholic guys who are always taken or seminarians. It’s easy to feel like giving up on something that will take awhile to plant, but will be worth it in the end when it grows into full bloom. There’s a reason for everything & perhaps these moments in your life are preparations for God’s love story for you to one day unfold in His time. Your posts are inspiring, b/c it exemplifies that there really are good catholic men out there. Thanks for sharing! May God continue to bless you.

By the way, if you try taking the lessons at the swing dancing event, you might find women also there for that. Eight yrs ago, my friend & her bf took me to a swing event & I hated it b/c no guy asked me to dance, but I was very shy then. Took me awhile to warm up, but with more experience, started to build my confidence & enjoyment dancing with strangers there. In life, we gotta try new things b/c everything’s a risk & no 1 experience is the same. Pray about it, trust the Holy Spirit, & “everything’s [literally] going to be okay” (Blessed Mother, Nov/Dec 2014)… God will provide for your needs, including your deepest desire.

I will pray for you. Again, you’re not alone. I’m not alone. Others aren’t alone. Thank you, dear Jesus for showing me this post (after googling: how to find a good catholic man). Thank you, Jesus, for the reminder that we’re all not alone… that you’re always there to catch us when we stumble. Thy will be done.

Suggestions: Men, Women, & the Mystery of Love (Edward Sri), chastityproject.com, study deeper 1 Corinthians 13 (“the way of love”), Life Giving Love (dvd by Jason Evert). What about practicing more of the Fruits & Gifts of the Holy Spirit more (rather than looking up the do’s & dont’s kinda thing of dating)? Edward Sri’s book is really great- ch. 11/12 provides tips for us singles as to how to be ready for that day someday. Hope that helps.

 

[kozlosap]

You are not alone. Your frustrations while still in the single years of waiting are definitely understandable. We are a rare percentage out there in the world & searching.

I’m still in it at age 24, female, & still in college. Although I’ve been on face-to-face 1st dates with acquaintance gentlemen & one 3-week relationship, moving things forward with a guy makes me anxious. These guys dated me for alternative motives & I didn’t realize it until later. I was so naïve then to assume (in the pure sense) that one of those guys were the right man (some were protestant, but I was expecting catholic). I regret quickly giving away my first kiss to a guy who impatiently didn’t deserve it, when I would usually save it for the wedding day. This is why it’s SO important to take things slow & really get to know someone (not just anyone, but a compatible Christly fit) as a good friend first (to see God reveal to you what their true intentions are). I’ve wasted years trying to find “the One,” praying daily for Him, & bettering myself for that moment, only to now experience Jesus desiring to presently work with me behind the scenes in the waiting; sharing to Him everything that I’m thinking, feeling, nervous about, whatever it is, I know He’s listening & presently there. I’ve explored the religious life, thinking that perhaps God had something else in mind, but it’s not for me, BUT, I learned a lot from the religious how to live a selfless & authentic marriage for God one day between God+1husband+1wife=fruitfulness. I had to open the window of my comfort zone for fresh air and jump out of it to embrace God’s fearless journey full of faith, hope, & love. I’m still impatient with this journey sometimes, especially when I meet good catholic guys who are always taken or seminarians. It’s easy to feel like giving up on something that will take awhile to plant, but will be worth it in the end when it grows into full bloom. There’s a reason for everything & perhaps these moments in your life are preparations for God’s love story for you to one day unfold in His time. Your posts are inspiring, b/c it exemplifies that there really are good catholic men out there. Thanks for sharing! May God continue to bless you.

By the way, if you try taking the lessons at the swing dancing event, you might find women also there for that. Eight yrs ago, my friend & her bf took me to a swing event & I hated it b/c no guy asked me to dance, but I was very shy then. Took me awhile to warm up, but with more experience, started to build my confidence & enjoyment dancing with strangers there. In life, we gotta try new things b/c everything’s a risk & no 1 experience is the same. Pray about it, trust the Holy Spirit, & “everything’s [literally] going to be okay” (Blessed Mother, Nov/Dec 2014)… God will provide for your needs, including your deepest desire.

I will pray for you. Again, you’re not alone. I’m not alone. Others aren’t alone. Thank you, dear Jesus for showing me this post (after googling: how to find a good catholic man). Thank you, Jesus, for the reminder that we’re all not alone… that you’re always there to catch us when we stumble. Thy will be done.

Suggestions: Men, Women, & the Mystery of Love (Edward Sri), chastityproject.com, study deeper 1 Corinthians 13 (“the way of love”), Life Giving Love (dvd by Jason Evert). What about practicing more of the Fruits & Gifts of the Holy Spirit more (rather than looking up the do’s & dont’s kinda thing of dating)? Edward Sri’s book is really great- ch. 11/12 provides tips for us singles as to how to be ready for that day someday. Hope that helps.

The OP certainly sounds like an admirable young professional, and I don’t want to speak for him, but I certainly don’t think he considers it normal to wait until marriage for a first kiss. Unless you are looking for a Duggar type, I can’t imagine marrying someone I haven’t held hands with or kissed…

 

[Irishmom2]

The OP certainly sounds like an admirable young professional, and I don’t want to speak for him, but I certainly don’t think he considers it normal to wait until marriage for a first kiss. Unless you are looking for a Duggar type, I can’t imagine marrying someone I haven’t held hands with or kissed…

Reread his OP. Near the end. Wants to wait for first kiss til marriage.

 

[KiwiBliss]

The OP certainly sounds like an admirable young professional, and I don’t want to speak for him, but I certainly don’t think he considers it normal to wait until marriage for a first kiss. Unless you are looking for a Duggar type, I can’t imagine marrying someone I haven’t held hands with or kissed…

Not sure what you meant by “OP” nor “Duggar type.” Nonetheless, saving the first kiss mentality goes back to my preference of the old-fashioned lifestyle of authentic love amid simplicity was what I meant & I brought that subject into my message b/c it was relevant. The term ‘normal’ is typically over-generalized & I prefer not to support that, b/c we’re all one-of-a-kind unique individuals created by the One and only God. It’s understandable to have a desire for physical touch in the pure sense. But often, those simple gestures can get out of hand in today’s standards. The quality of intentional and simple ways to express love for a loved one stands out to me more than words could exemplify… & I’m not the only female who also thinks so. Honoring and respecting the other person’s mind, body, & spirit patiently in chaste ways can inspire two people meant to be together to honor & respect God’s way of love simply.
Although I can only pray & imagine this to happen to me someday, the more I practice the fruits & gifts of the Holy Spirit (esp patience & chastity), the more simple & intentional gestures used sparingly will mean so much to me. It’s better to hold hands with the right fit than the wrong person at the wrong time. Be patient, trust & pray that God will fulfill your longings, if they are pleasing to God in the modest sense. You deserve authentic love done right. I will pray for you. He’s not finished working undercover with you to prepare for that love story to unfold yet. May God continue to bless you & keep you safe.

 

[on_the_hill]

OP = Original Poster. Or Original Post.

Duggat type = I assume this means a woman whose approach to interactions with men is to follow an extremely disciplined and conservative plan that maintains bright line boundaries between what is permitted and what is not.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Again it sounds like the OP is limiting attention to a very narrow group of women as there are few people who don’t want to even kiss before marriage

 

[SusanneT]

To be fair I think there is ‘kissing’ and ‘kissing’ - there is a big difference from natural affection which is part of learning to know and love one another as a courting couple and the kissing which is appropriate (in private) between husband and wife.

I also regret having kissed previous boyfriends before I met my husband, I didn’t go further, but it did undoubtably have an element which was sexual and therefore not chaste. My husband and I did cuddle, hold hands and kiss (briefly) before marriage, we had clearly gone past the ‘friends zone’ but we didn’t kiss properly until we were married.

 

[edwest2]

Excellent advice.
Some people approach finding a mate in the same way they shop for a car.
It doesn’t work that way.

For some women I’ve known, that’s how it works. They are used to luxury and they’re beautiful. Their behavior is very good. However:

Girl 1) Got a job at a hospital as a secretary. Had a lot of guys in high paying positions looking at her. We became friends. One day, I come to work and she’s wearing a large diamond engagement ring. The following is the short version:

“So, who’s the lucky guy?” She tells me. He’s a department head.

“How long have you known each other? Been dating?” Four months, but don’t worry, we’ll be engaged for a year.

“Do you love him?” I’ll learn to love him.

“What do you like about him?” He has a house and a car.

The following weekend, I come in and she’s gone. I ask an older secretary who fills me in, and though I can’t believe it, I begin to hear and experience the same thing. “She didn’t need the job, she was just looking for a husband.”

Girl 2) I met her and thought she came from a working-class background like me. In fact, she showed me a picture of herself in her first Communion dress. All went well until marriage came up.

“I want money for clothes, trips and jewelry. And a big house by the water.” She knew what I did for a living. So even with both of us working, she wanted what Girl 1) wanted. So we broke up.

Girl 3) As beautiful as the others. She met a good friend of mine. Both came from working class backgrounds. They have been married for decades. He (is) was Catholic, she was Methodist, but converted to Catholic later on.

Sorry for going a bit off topic there.

Ed

 

[Engineer4God]

Conversations??? Those do not count. Getting a phone number and meeting in real life count. Here is what you do. Get on Catholicmatch if you are not already. Message every single woman who you have a spark of interest in. You cannot do this all in one day, or week or even month (maybe not even season, we all have obligations to take care of) but keep going until you get a message back. Ask for a phone number after a week of corresponding. One week. If she says no, she is not interested. You want to get off the internet and into phone convos and a real date asap. If you have had all these conversations but never one date, you are not asking to meet up quick enough. Now, I could be wrong, but I am a online dating veteran so I do not think so in this case. Try it. You will get a date eventually. You just have no dating experience. I was a late bloomer too. I had one date when I was 18 then I did not really begin dating regularly (If you call a few times a year regularly that is ) Until 27 I believe.

Unfortunately, I’ve tried everything you said with no success. I was on CM for 3 years and I sent messages to several women most of whom never responded. But I did get initial messages from some women only to find out I wasn’t attracted to her. I’ve gotten phone numbers but none of the girls were willing to meet in person (or used the excuse of being to busy). I totally want off the internet but I can’t help it if she doesn’t. I’m sick of internet dating. I think I need to meet someone offline because online just isn’t working. I’ve met tons of women that I had tons on common with online but none of them responded. I do everything right but nothing happens. I have great profile pictures, I list all my interesting hobbies and talk about my Catholic faith. When I contact a woman for the first time, I show my excitement to get to know her by talking about our common interests and shared goals and values. What am I supposed to do? Just say “Hi” and leave it at that? Should I shorten my profile so it’s the bare bones about me? That would be boring. Perhaps boring is more attractive than overloaded with detail, lol. It makes absolutely no sense. And then creepy old women send me winks. Do you have any ideas of what I’m doing wrong or am I just incredibly unfortunate? :banghead:

 

[nodito]

Unfortunately, I’ve tried everything you said with no success. I was on CM for 3 years and I sent messages to several women most of whom never responded. But I did get initial messages from some women only to find out I wasn’t attracted to her. I’ve gotten phone numbers but none of the girls were willing to meet in person (or used the excuse of being to busy). I totally want off the internet but I can’t help it if she doesn’t. I’m sick of internet dating. I think I need to meet someone offline because online just isn’t working. I’ve met tons of women that I had tons on common with online but none of them responded. I do everything right but nothing happens. I have great profile pictures, I list all my interesting hobbies and talk about my Catholic faith. When I contact a woman for the first time, I show my excitement to get to know her by talking about our common interests and shared goals and values. What am I supposed to do? Just say “Hi” and leave it at that? Should I shorten my profile so it’s the bare bones about me? That would be boring. Perhaps boring is more attractive than overloaded with detail, lol. It makes absolutely no sense. And then creepy old women send me winks. Do you have any ideas of what I’m doing wrong or am I just incredibly unfortunate? :banghead:

My sister joined Ok Cupid a few years ago and was immediately inundated with messages from interested guys. Sure, she’s a real catch, but my understanding is that this happens to a lot of women. They receive so many messages that it’s overwhelming and sort of inevitable that even really great guys are going to be lost at sea. The guy she eventually started dating (and they dated for over a year) messaged her a second time with something like, “You know, I was looking over your profile again and I really think we might make a great match. Can I take you out for coffee?” So if you don’t hear back from the girls you’re interested in, trying writing again.

The link you posted earlier about being desperate? The thing that made me laugh but also rang true was when it said that women are turned on by flirting. Yes! Practice flirting and you’ll do fine.

 

[THP]

The best way to get out of the “friend zone” is to not go there in the first place. Yep, that means you have to create sexual/romantic tension early - before she writes you off and finds someone who does. Going in for a well-timed kiss or holding her hand are two of many ways to do this.

But if you have a young woman in mind who is already a friend, don’t do this. That’s gross and creepy and will end the friendship. Once she’s said she just wants to be friends, either accept the friendship for what it is, or cut ties. But don’t try to leverage the friendship into more.

Totally agree with this. I was going to say something similar.

The first time I met my wife I planted a kiss on her right in the middle of the dance floor which was totally out of character for me. Over the next few weeks and months the romantic and sexual tension was insane. 17 years and 6 kids later still going strong. Don’t think she feels the tension as much as I do still (she is inundated with toddler and baby stuff) but I won’t hesitate to grab her and plant a kiss on her on the dance floor even now. I don’t care who is around.

 

[twf]

Totally agree with this. I was going to say something similar.

The first time I met my wife I planted a kiss on her right in the middle of the dance floor which was totally out of character for me. Over the next few weeks and months the romantic and sexual tension was insane. 17 years and 6 kids later still going strong. Don’t think she feels the tension as much as I do still (she is inundated with toddler and baby stuff) but I won’t hesitate to grab her and plant a kiss on her on the dance floor even now. I don’t care who is around.

With 6 kids, do you still get out to the dance floor? Lol.