Getting out of the Friend-zone w/o sinning

[starshiptrooper]

Myth. If there is a question about whether or not sex was consensual, not whether or not it occurred, and the issue is roughness, the defendant can bring up her sexual history. It’s limited in scope, but he can try to show that she was known for liking violent sex, he had knowledge of this before the encounter, and that a reasonable misunderstanding occurred.

It all depends on the state. Some have reasonable laws exactly as you describe, others are exactly what I claimed. The Wikipedia article on this subject has a link to a list of the various statutes. Even so, a Feminist judge could simply suppress the evidence.

But no, you can’t bring up that a woman is or was promiscuous because it has no impact on whether or not this particular encounter was rape. I know it’s hard to accept that even easy women have standards that a lot of men don’t meet, but they do. Promiscuity doesn’t mitigate rape.

The concept of female hypergamy actually is easy to accept once you realize how much sense it makes.

 

[Xantippe]

It all depends on the state. Some have reasonable laws exactly as you describe, others are exactly what I claimed. The Wikipedia article on this subject has a link to a list of the various statutes. ** Even so, a Feminist judge could simply suppress the evidence.**
.

Non-feminist judges do and say asinine things all the time.

washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/12/judge-apologizes-for-asking-accuser-in-rape-case-why-she-couldnt-keep-her-knees-together/

A guy in Montana who was convicted of repeated rape of his 12-year-old daughter got a grand total of 60 days in jail last month:

nytimes.com/2016/10/22/us/montana-judge-criticized-for-60-day-sentence-for-felony-incest.html?_r=0

One of the gross things about that case was that the victim has what sounds like very little support in her own family:

"Judge McKeon also cited statements from the victim’s mother and maternal grandmother, both of whom acknowledged the “horrible” nature of the crime while seeking leniency.

"“He needs help — not to spend 25 years locked up,” the victim’s mother wrote. His two sons need their father, she added, “even with very understandable restrictions.”

"Those sons would be “devastated” were he no longer in their lives, the maternal grandmother wrote.

“Judge McKeon said he weighed all those factors, as well as the support of the defendant’s church, in handing down the sentence.”

!!!

It sounds like this girl’s entire family is failing her, and the judge is, too–there is nobody standing up for her.

If you look around, you’ll find a lot of stories like this.

It’s absurd to think that the personal biases in the judicial system are all tilted in the direction of favoring rape accusers.

 

[starshiptrooper]

Non-feminist judges do and say asinine things all the time.

Yes, but that is not relevant to my point. Issues like this are best addressed by mandatory minimum sentencing laws in my opinion.

 

[Engineer4God]

You are not alone. Your frustrations while still in the single years of waiting are definitely understandable. We are a rare percentage out there in the world & searching.

I’m still in it at age 24, female, & still in college. Although I’ve been on face-to-face 1st dates with acquaintance gentlemen & one 3-week relationship, moving things forward with a guy makes me anxious. These guys dated me for alternative motives & I didn’t realize it until later. I was so naïve then to assume (in the pure sense) that one of those guys were the right man (some were protestant, but I was expecting catholic). I regret quickly giving away my first kiss to a guy who impatiently didn’t deserve it, when I would usually save it for the wedding day. This is why it’s SO important to take things slow & really get to know someone (not just anyone, but a compatible Christly fit) as a good friend first (to see God reveal to you what their true intentions are). I’ve wasted years trying to find “the One,” praying daily for Him, & bettering myself for that moment, only to now experience Jesus desiring to presently work with me behind the scenes in the waiting; sharing to Him everything that I’m thinking, feeling, nervous about, whatever it is, I know He’s listening & presently there. I’ve explored the religious life, thinking that perhaps God had something else in mind, but it’s not for me, BUT, I learned a lot from the religious how to live a selfless & authentic marriage for God one day between God+1husband+1wife=fruitfulness. I had to open the window of my comfort zone for fresh air and jump out of it to embrace God’s fearless journey full of faith, hope, & love. I’m still impatient with this journey sometimes, especially when I meet good catholic guys who are always taken or seminarians. It’s easy to feel like giving up on something that will take awhile to plant, but will be worth it in the end when it grows into full bloom. There’s a reason for everything & perhaps these moments in your life are preparations for God’s love story for you to one day unfold in His time. Your posts are inspiring, b/c it exemplifies that there really are good catholic men out there. Thanks for sharing! May God continue to bless you.

By the way, if you try taking the lessons at the swing dancing event, you might find women also there for that. Eight yrs ago, my friend & her bf took me to a swing event & I hated it b/c no guy asked me to dance, but I was very shy then. Took me awhile to warm up, but with more experience, started to build my confidence & enjoyment dancing with strangers there. In life, we gotta try new things b/c everything’s a risk & no 1 experience is the same. Pray about it, trust the Holy Spirit, & “everything’s [literally] going to be okay” (Blessed Mother, Nov/Dec 2014)… God will provide for your needs, including your deepest desire.

I will pray for you. Again, you’re not alone. I’m not alone. Others aren’t alone. Thank you, dear Jesus for showing me this post (after googling: how to find a good catholic man). Thank you, Jesus, for the reminder that we’re all not alone… that you’re always there to catch us when we stumble. Thy will be done.

Suggestions: Men, Women, & the Mystery of Love (Edward Sri), chastityproject.com, study deeper 1 Corinthians 13 (“the way of love”), Life Giving Love (dvd by Jason Evert). What about practicing more of the Fruits & Gifts of the Holy Spirit more (rather than looking up the do’s & dont’s kinda thing of dating)? Edward Sri’s book is really great- ch. 11/12 provides tips for us singles as to how to be ready for that day someday. Hope that helps.

Amen!

 

[Engineer4God]

Practice flirting and you’ll do fine.

Ok… so I want to practice flirting, but how? Can you be more specific?
Flirting just doesn’t come naturally for me. I’m more of a serious guy upon first meeting someone. It isn’t until I’m comfortable with a girl that I’d be able to flirt with her and even then I wouldn’t know what it was that I did that was a flirt.

 

[DarkLight]

First, rape shield laws prevent people from raising even reasonable criticism of the accuser’s history. Second the mainstream media is working overtime on behalf of the Clinton campaign. So Trump is not nearly as powerful as you would like to believe.

I wasn’t speaking merely of what’s available in trial. Even if the victim’s history isn’t raised at trial, it’s going to be raised in media and all over the internet if the case gains any sort of publicity. It’s no light thing to have every joe blow out there looking over every detail of your case to see what you were wearing, whether you flirted, why you were drinking/alone with a guy/what have you. I mean, we have a recent case of the New York Times (hardly a conservative publication) speculating on the attire of a teenaged girl gang raped, and printing for all the world to see that she “dressed sexy” (and thus, implicitly, tempted those poor men).

There can be other consequences as well. In the academic field I’m in, it’s widely known that being too public in an accusation of sexual harassment or assault can essentially ruin a woman’s career. So women put up with stuff because they want to be able to work without being seen as a “liability”, even if they don’t welcome the attentions of the so-called alpha male. It’s not that they want him - it’s that they’re afraid of losing their careers if they protest too much.

 

[nodito]

Ok… so I want to practice flirting, but how? Can you be more specific?
Flirting just doesn’t come naturally for me. I’m more of a serious guy upon first meeting someone. It isn’t until I’m comfortable with a girl that I’d be able to flirt with her and even then I wouldn’t know what it was that I did that was a flirt.

You’ll have to practice being more playful and fun and less intense. You should both be having fun. Joke around with her. Make a witty observation about something at work or at the restaurant and give her a wry smile so she’s in on it too. Create inside jokes. Casually touch her arm. Look her in the eye and smile when she talks to you. Drop little compliments. Remember dates or events that she mentions and reference them later. Make her feel special and important. You flirt and create sexual tension by making her feel attractive and desirable and showing confidence without rushing a declaration of love.

 

[Xantippe]

You’ll have to practice being more playful and fun and less intense. You should both be having fun. Joke around with her. Make a witty observation about something at work or at the restaurant and give her a wry smile so she’s in on it too. Create inside jokes. Casually touch her arm. Look her in the eye and smile when she talks to you. Drop little compliments. Remember dates or events that she mentions and reference them later. Make her feel special and important. You flirt and create sexual tension by making her feel attractive and desirable and showing confidence without rushing a declaration of love.

Some of those are good goals–some of them are black diamond level.

If the OP isn’t naturally witty, it’s a good idea not to try too hard. (I’ve personally gotten myself into so much trouble when trying to be clever!) I’d add:

–be fun
–try to make sure that the person you are with is having a good time (but that doesn’t mean nervously inquiring every fifteen minutes)
–don’t monologue (I have overheard so many terrible first dates with people nervously monologuing!)
–ask questions–but not ones that are too pointed!
–listen!
–have a good conversational rhythm–he says a few things, she says a few things, he says a few things, etc. It should be tennis, not like a quarterback charging across the field with the ball.
–have a good rhythm generally–don’t barrage people with emails or texts or phone calls. Communicate and then give them a reasonable chance to contact you.
–(and this is very important) this will all be much easier if you actually have a lot in common so that you will naturally enjoy each other’s company and enjoy a lot of the same stuff without having to force anything

The odds are that the OP just hasn’t met the right person yet.

Good luck!

 

[Xantippe]

Okay, 2 things need to be pointed out.

1. As a very successful man said, “I have not failed, I have found 10000 ways that did not work.” Nobody sends out just one job application.** Even if these guys are failing, they are still getting more women than the average guy.**
2. While the PUA’s were instrumental in helping lay the groundwork for the Red Pill, they are not Red Pilled. Too many of them rely on gimmicks and scripts. They still try to obtain validation from women.At the very least, it will cost them time and money. This gynocentric society has no consequences for false rape accusations. Mattress Girl is still free. It is time to change the status quo.Clinton and Trump are nearly neck and neck and if Clinton loses, Trump promised us he would make sure she goes to prison. If she could dig up some more liars, now would be the time to do it.

The average guy may actually have a lot better rate of return than the PUA, because the average guy isn’t sending out the romantic equivalent of junk mail or spam. (Freudian slip–I just wrote “junk male” before correcting it.)

To give a personal example, I’ve only ever been out so much as for coffee with four guys and two of them were interested in marrying me. (And before you start imagining me as some sort of beauty queen, I’ve never been more than just a good solid B in the looks department.) Likewise, my future husband had never taken any woman out before we started dating, and I don’t even know that he’d ever asked anybody out before me. His “success” rate is thus 100%, which literally no PUA can match. People who are more selective with who they make a pass at are going to wind up with better numbers. It wouldn’t surprise me, for example, if the OP is picking out wedding china in the next couple of years.

This “gynocentric” society punishes pretty much all victims of rape in a variety of ways. Consider, for example, all the conversations we’ve had on CAF where a guy comes on and says that he is only going to marry a virgin–that’s society punishing victims of rape. (I know that those guys generally back pedal when the issue is brought to their attention, but there’s always a new guy saying exactly the same thing.)

Mattress Girl’s name is out there, so a lot of employers are going to take a pass on her.

That was a very irresponsible threat on Trump’s part, and I think demonstrates how little he understands how government works. He, as president, could not send HRC to prison–he could only start the machinery of prosecution going. He cannot guarantee a particular result. Only in a banana republic would that be the case.

 

[SusanneT]

You’ll have to practice being more playful and fun and less intense. You should both be having fun. Joke around with her. Make a witty observation about something at work or at the restaurant and give her a wry smile so she’s in on it too. Create inside jokes. Casually touch her arm. Look her in the eye and smile when she talks to you. Drop little compliments. Remember dates or events that she mentions and reference them later. Make her feel special and important. You flirt and create sexual tension by making her feel attractive and desirable and showing confidence without rushing a declaration of love.

Wonderfully put ! Husbands and potential husbands please note !

 

[starshiptrooper]

The average guy may actually have a lot better rate of return than the PUA, because the average guy isn’t sending out the romantic equivalent of junk mail or spam. (Freudian slip–I just wrote “junk male” before correcting it.)

To give a personal example, I’ve only ever been out so much as for coffee with four guys and two of them were interested in marrying me. (And before you start imagining me as some sort of beauty queen, I’ve never been more than just a good solid B in the looks department.) Likewise, my future husband had never taken any woman out before we started dating, and I don’t even know that he’d ever asked anybody out before me. His “success” rate is thus 100%, which literally no PUA can match. People who are more selective with who they make a pass at are going to wind up with better numbers.

State enforced monogamy is a terrible deal for men, especially if you do not want kids.

It wouldn’t surprise me, for example, if the OP is picking out wedding china in the next couple of years.

Of course, women in a similar age bracket will suddenly show more interest in guys like OP whom they ignored when they were younger and hotter. It will not surprise me if the OP winds up with a dead bedroom or screwed over in a divorce.

This “gynocentric” society punishes pretty much all victims of rape in a variety of ways. Consider, for example, all the conversations we’ve had on CAF where a guy comes on and says that he is only going to marry a virgin–that’s society punishing victims of rape. (I know that those guys generally back pedal when the issue is brought to their attention, but there’s always a new guy saying exactly the same thing.)

Apparently men exercising freedom of speech and freedom of association is punishing women. By this “logic”, my lack of attraction to black women makes me a racist. I was talking about false accusations, how is this relevant anyway?

Mattress Girl’s name is out there, so a lot of employers are going to take a pass on her.

She tried to ruin a man’s life and reputation. She should get the same prison time he would have gotten.

That was a very irresponsible threat on Trump’s part, and I think demonstrates how little he understands how government works. He, as president, could not send HRC to prison–he could only start the machinery of prosecution going. He cannot guarantee a particular result. Only in a banana republic would that be the case.

You view it as irresponsible, I view it as a pledge that law and order will be restored.

 

[DarkLight]

I think it’s a reasonable point that even in cases where the accusation is true (or even substantiated), there’s likely to be significant pushback on the woman. And that’s leaving aside that many sexual assault allegations can be very hard to substantiate.

You kind of can’t win. I know in my own case I’ve been told if it was real I would have gone to the police. I had no particular evidence - no injuries and I was willingly alone with a man I thought I could trust. If I went to the police it would be dismissed as an unfounded claim, and then I’d almost certainly be painted as a liar just trying to get a guy in trouble.

 

[Xantippe]

**State enforced monogamy is a terrible deal for men, especially if you do not want kids.**Of course, women in a similar age bracket will suddenly show more interest in guys like OP whom they ignored when they were younger and hotter. It will not surprise me if the OP winds up with a dead bedroom or screwed over in a divorce.Apparently men exercising freedom of speech and freedom of association is punishing women. By this “logic”, my lack of attraction to black women makes me a racist. I was talking about false accusations, how is this relevant anyway?She tried to ruin a man’s life and reputation. She should get the same prison time he would have gotten.You view it as irresponsible, I view it as a pledge that law and order will be restored.

There’s no more reliable way I know of than marriage if you want to have middle class children. It may not always work, but there is literally no other reliable way to go about doing it.

That negativity is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Also, it’s shooting oneself in the foot to be negative and cynical about the other sex suddenly showing one interest. A lot of people (and this would be particularly true of engineers) are social late bloomers, and they will (if they apply themselves and give themselves lots of opportunities for practice) find themselves getting better and better with social interactions. I was a VERY awkward teen girl, but I’ve gotten better and better with social interactions over the years. It might even be that the OP’s future wife is about two years from feeling brave enough to talk to him–it’s not just men who suffer from shyness or awkwardness. I also had what I now realize was an escapee-from-polygamous-cult wardrobe early in my college days–pretty much DEET for normal guys. As my wardrobe became more mainstream (which it did as I earned money as a young adult, bought clothes, and got pointers from people close to me), I started getting at least a little more attention. (I did not realize this interesting coincidence at the time.) Was my long denim skirt or my drab charcoal long-sleeved blouse freshman year the guys’ fault? Was it their fault for not seeing my inner beauty under all those acres of frumpiness? Naaah. That’s a girl story, but I am positive that there’s a guy version of it, too.

You were saying that society punishes men who are victims of false accusations of rape (which is, come to think of it, often equally “freedom of speech” and “freedom of association”). I was pointing out that society punishes women who are victims of rape. All of us who are long-time CAFers have seen guy after guy come in and say–only a virgin for me! They eventually (after it’s pointed out that there are victims of rape and widows) backpedal, but not before many women who have been assaulted (which is, by the by, a very large minority) see the initial post and register that they are worthless, unmarriageable garbage. As if they needed to hear that from other people, too…Victims of rape need to believe that they are worthwhile human beings and that they have a future and Christian men need to stop talking and thinking like ISIS warlords at a slave market. One, it’s wrong, and two, it makes a lot of the women they are interested in vanish into the woodwork. What woman in her right mind wants to be primarily valued for virginity?

 

[pensmama87]

…

Also, it’s shooting oneself in the foot to be negative and cynical about the other sex suddenly showing one interest. A lot of people (and this would be particularly true of engineers) are social late bloomers, and they will (if they apply themselves and give themselves lots of opportunities for practice) find themselves getting better and better with social interactions. I was a VERY awkward teen girl, but I’ve gotten better and better with social interactions over the years. It might even be that the OP’s future wife is about two years from feeling brave enough to talk to him–it’s not just men who suffer from shyness or awkwardness. …

I think there may be a corollary to this as well: those who excel socially (or seem to excel) during adolescence can tend to get stuck there and not progress out of those same social patterns (many of which are manipulative and destructive and focused on cliques and power struggles, rather than actually getting along with other people.)

That’s not universally true, of course, and I’ve known some geeky folk who have always had charisma, too, but I’ve seen it happen a lot. And if you have social anxiety like I do, it can still be unnerving interacting with these “glory days” people - because while you’ve progressed past them into being an actual adult, they’re still using the same tactics that made you feel terrible in middle and high school.

The best thing, of course, is just to ignore such people altogether, but that can be hard for people who are inclined to think well of others. The naivety seems to be one of the last things to go (but replacing it with cynicism or bitterness is not much better.)

 

[Xantippe]

I think there may be a corollary to this as well: those who excel socially (or seem to excel) during adolescence can tend to get stuck there and not progress out of those same social patterns (many of which are manipulative and destructive and focused on cliques and power struggles, rather than actually getting along with other people.)

Ain’t that the truth.

 

[AClaire11]

I think it’s a reasonable point that even in cases where the accusation is true (or even substantiated), there’s likely to be significant pushback on the woman. And that’s leaving aside that many sexual assault allegations can be very hard to substantiate.

You kind of can’t win. I know in my own case I’ve been told if it was real I would have gone to the police. I had no particular evidence - no injuries and I was willingly alone with a man I thought I could trust. If I went to the police it would be dismissed as an unfounded claim, and then I’d almost certainly be painted as a liar just trying to get a guy in trouble.

I was in the same situation and that is also why I did not report. I was recently informed that the statute of limitations hasn’t run out since he left the state, but it was over 7 years ago and I’d have even less hope of getting justice.

 

[Xantippe]

Apparently men exercising freedom of speech and freedom of association is punishing women. By this “logic”, my lack of attraction to black women makes me a racist.

Actually, although “I want a virgin” and “I want a non-black woman” are both distasteful as things to say (and will probably both drive away women in the desired category), they aren’t analogous.

Here’s why: race is usually immediately visible, but virginity isn’t.

A better analogy would be that “I want a virgin” is like “I want a woman with a doctorate” or “I want a woman who speaks Spanish.” All three of those things (virginity, a doctorate or knowing Spanish) are characteristics that are not immediately visible and one might become attracted to or fall in love with a woman before one discovers that she is not a virgin, not a PhD, and not a Spanish speaker.

In casual social interactions (at least outside of high school and college), virginity or non-virginity just isn’t a topic of general conversation. Grown ups don’t casually exchange that information, anymore than they casually tell each other their bank balances. Private stuff is private, and until one has earned the right to that information, it needs to stay that way. So, I’ve always been puzzled by people who seem to think that the virginity/non-virginity question is one that they can use to immediately cull their dating options–the truth is that a lot of women who are virgins will (and should) bail on a guy who immediately starts asking intrusive intimate questions of a near-stranger.

 

[starshiptrooper]

There’s no more reliable way I know of than marriage if you want to have middle class children. It may not always work, but there is literally no other reliable way to go about doing it.

A pity that the state and the cultural have made it such a terrible deal then. You used to get a wife, mother and homemaker out of the deal. Now you get a roommate who can lower the boom on you at any time.

That negativity is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Also, it’s shooting oneself in the foot to be negative and cynical about the other sex suddenly showing one interest.

Says the lady who thinks that a guy offering to walk a girl back to her car is a potential rapist.

A lot of people (and this would be particularly true of engineers) are social late bloomers, and they will (if they apply themselves and give themselves lots of opportunities for practice) find themselves getting better and better with social interactions.
I was a VERY awkward teen girl, but I’ve gotten better and better with social interactions over the years. It might even be that the OP’s future wife is about two years from feeling brave enough to talk to him–it’s not just men who suffer from shyness or awkwardness. I also had what I now realize was an escapee-from-polygamous-cult wardrobe early in my college days–pretty much DEET for normal guys. As my wardrobe became more mainstream (which it did as I earned money as a young adult, bought clothes, and got pointers from people close to me), I started getting at least a little more attention. (I did not realize this interesting coincidence at the time.) Was my long denim skirt or my drab charcoal long-sleeved blouse freshman year the guys’ fault? Was it their fault for not seeing my inner beauty under all those acres of frumpiness? Naaah. That’s a girl story, but I am positive that there’s a guy version of it, too.

Right, like my buddy who left the seminary and went into a technical field, nicest guy ever, and a good friend. He never got any action in high school before he decided he had a vocation. Suddenly he is going out with a single mother we both knew in high school. Is this because he suddenly became more attractive or because he makes decent money unlike the bad boys (who had an alpha mindset) she slept with before? Poor guy is probably going to wind up being a real man (cuck) by your standards and raise some other man’s kid and getting his sloppy seconds.

You were saying that society punishes men who are victims of false accusations of rape (which is, come to think of it, often equally “freedom of speech” and “freedom of association”).

False accusations are a crime.

I was pointing out that society punishes women who are victims of rape. All of us who are long-time CAFers have seen guy after guy come in and say–only a virgin for me! They eventually (after it’s pointed out that there are victims of rape and widows) backpedal, but not before many women who have been assaulted (which is, by the by, a very large minority) see the initial post and register that they are worthless, unmarriageable garbage.

Okay, so those guys are susceptible to being shamed into changing their perfectly legitimate preferences by a bunch of people on the internet. Sucks to be them.

As if they needed to hear that from other people, too…Victims of rape need to believe that they are worthwhile human beings and that they have a future and Christian men need to stop talking and thinking like ISIS warlords at a slave market. One, it’s wrong, and two, it makes a lot of the women they are interested in vanish into the woodwork. What woman in her right mind wants to be primarily valued for virginity?

Their problems are not mine. My problems are not theirs. They can blame the state for making marriage a dangerous deal in which rational men have to minimize all possible risk. What you mean however is that it goes against female interests and is in favor of male interests therefore you will attempt to use shame wrapped in the cloak of morality to beat them into submission.

 

[UbiCaritas]

"And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life? 26But he said to him: What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said to him: Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. 29But he willing to justify himself, said to Jesus: And who is my neighbour?

30And Jesus answering, said: A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, who also stripped him, and having wounded him went away, leaving him half dead. 31And it chanced, that a certain priest went down the same way: and seeing him, passed by. 32In like manner also a Levite, when he was near the place and saw him, passed by. 33But a certain Samaritan being on his journey, came near him; and seeing him, was moved with compassion. 34And going up to him, bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine: and setting him upon his own beast, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35And the next day he took out two pence, and gave to the host, and said: Take care of him; and whatsoever thou shalt spend over and above, I, at my return, will repay thee. 36Which of these three, in thy opinion, was neighbour to him that fell among the robbers? 37But he said: He that shewed mercy to him. And Jesus said to him: Go, and do thou in like manner."

(Luke 10:25-37)

 

[Xantippe]

A pity that the state and the cultural have made it such a terrible deal then. You used to get a wife, mother and homemaker out of the deal. Now you get a roommate who can lower the boom on you at any time.

Says the lady who thinks that a guy offering to walk a girl back to her car is a potential rapist.

Right, like my buddy who left the seminary and went into a technical field, nicest guy ever, and a good friend. He never got any action in high school before he decided he had a vocation. Suddenly he is going out with a single mother we both knew in high school. Is this because he suddenly became more attractive or because he makes decent money unlike the bad boys (who had an alpha mindset) she slept with before? Poor guy is probably going to wind up being a real man (cuck) by your standards and raise some other man’s kid and getting his sloppy seconds.False accusations are a crime.Okay, so those guys are susceptible to being shamed into changing their perfectly legitimate preferences by a bunch of people on the internet. Sucks to be them.Their problems are not mine. My problems are not theirs. They can blame the state for making marriage a dangerous deal in which rational men have to minimize all possible risk. What you mean however is that it goes against female interests and is in favor of male interests therefore you will attempt to use shame wrapped in the cloak of morality to beat them into submission.

“Wife” was guaranteed by legal marriage–that’s a tautology. However “mother” and “homemaker” never were, and of course there might be a lot less to “wife” than you might expect.

Check out, for example, John Milton’s first marriage. His wife ran back to her mother soon after their marriage (he was 34, she was 17) and he wrote many, many pamphlets arguing for legal divorce between then and his wife’s return, as the English laws at the time bound him inseparably to his wife, even though she had flown the coop.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Milton%27s_relationships

There have always been infertile women and there have always been bad housekeepers and adulteresses (see Genesis or Proverbs for infertility and the adultery).

Of course women need to be careful about who they allow to walk them back to their cars or apartments. The truth is that it’s a lot safer to walk oneself back than to let some near-stranger walk with you. The most common rapists are not strangers but people that we know at least a little and trust at least a little.

This is not exactly rocket science.

As with child molestation, there’s a lot of popular concern about stranger danger, but people in our circle of trust are much more dangerous–in fact, that’s kind of the point of your fear of marriage.

I’m afraid I’m going to have to report you to the mods for language. It’s not personal, we just don’t accept that kind of language around here.

As to the substance of your story, your friend is probably much more socially skilled than he was in high school (nearly all of us are). He’s also probably a lot better looking–a lot of people are. Furthermore, a lot of people aren’t sexually active in high school or don’t have a boyfriend or girlfriend. There’s nothing unusual about that. True story–I had no boyfriend in high school and the one boy that danced with me the one time I went to homecoming turned out to be gay. I haven’t let any of that wreck my life. Adulthood, thanks be to God, does not need to resemble high school.

If people have sexual pasts but insist on virgins for themselves, I think they need to be prepared to have the hypocrisy pointed out to them.

If men choose to exclude good women from consideration for marriage based on circumstances that were not the fault of the women themselves, that’s the guys’ funeral. If they prefer to die alone rather than to marry a chaste non-virgin, I kind of think that that’s an issue they need to talk to a therapist about. Honestly, it sounds like a psychological problem.