Getting over self-loathing

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mrajax

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What advice do you guys have when it comes to getting over self-loathing?

To talk about myself and some background and if one has read my threads in the past, I have a history of living under an emotionally abusive mother, have been constantly sexually harassed as a kid if not borderline sexually abused, horrible, bloody imagery involving death, blood, rape and disease are always passing through my mind and even engaged in some self harm (swallowing shampoo, beating myself etc…) in general self-loathing has been one of the most debbilating things that in my life and because of all my past problems and my present ones, not to mention my own social awkwardness I feel that I’m really not proud of myself.

If one were to scour my own threads one would see that most of them are about me asking for advice and seeing them now, after reading more about social cues, people, psychology, spending more time with friends and getting to know the things they disliked about me etc… I actually cringe and in a way I have to admit that I am a bit jealous of them. I’m not jealous in the sense that I desire their status and possessions in life, jealous in the sense that these people whom I love get to meet other interesting people and make close friends whilst I’m here stewing in my own insecurities.

Why do I even have it? Firstly because in a way, despite all the abuse I underwent I feel I still brought all this social isolation on myself. It was a slow process for me to reject my mother’s neediness and clinginess and to get over my sexual abuse. Secondly, the more I interacted with friends the more I noticed they weren’t too pleased with some of my actions. I used to engage in behaviour that whilst not exactly creepy well, turned out to be creepy (i.e. I used to try chatting and talking with some friends I really liked even when they didn’t really want to. They didn’t want to tell me that I was displeasing them, at least that’s how I feel things went) and thought myself closer to some friends than I really thought were were. Some friends would even tell me off when I went too far albeit gently and not too harshly (I always obeyed).

Because of all this, what I thought was progress for me turned out in actuality to be a step backwards. Secondly, because despite me always asking for advice on these forums I’m not like this in real life. Most of the time and I DO mean most of the time, I keep things bottled up. I really have to be over the edge in my depression for me to release something to my only confidant, my dad. That said, it’s natural for people to think of me as a weirdo after seeing all the **** I said here, so much so that in real life nobody on these forums in their right mind would actually try being friends with someone like me and I can see why. I’m nothing but a creep who has a lot of problems and is most probably mentally ill. I’m a handful, and not a pleasant one at that. If I am so socially challenged, so bitter and full of self-loathing why, why would anyone risk their sanity being friends with me? It’s obvious that I’d be a bad influence on people and frankly this self pitying, self hating speech isn’t going to win me over anyone. I’m not being deep or remotely pitiful, these are just my own insane ramblings. Honestly, all I want is advice. I don’t want anyone worrying about me when they have more important things to worry about.

Now I’ve mentioned before that yes, I know I need friends, I’m trying to get over my social awkwardness but what’s the use if I myself am such a naturally bad person? What’s the point of trying if I am going to keep on falling backwards and if in the end none of my friends really think about me at all?

With this text in mind, how am I supposed to get over it outside a therapist? Honestly, I have nothing to be proud of. All this considered I actually feel extremely sorry for the poor and the mentally challenged; if I have it bad, think about them having no one to really talk to mono o mono.

One other thing is that except for very minor things people never have anything good to say about me. I’m just not the type of person who deserves praise. In order to get to the little progress that I have done I had to kick myself so to speak. I’m not the type of person who takes things gently.
 
Get a therapist, work with your therapist, but don’t stop posting.
 
Honestly? You need to go see a psychologist. I don’t know how old you are, but from this post, I would guess you are a teenager. Therapy will help you mature emotionally. That disconnect you feel from others is emotional immaturity. If you are doing things like swallowing shampoo and having violent thoughts multiple times a day, you need to go tell all of this to a doctor and let them help you. If you’ve tried therapy and it didn’t feel right, find another doctor. It is normal for it to take a long time to heal from child abuse and almost impossible to do without talking to someone.
 
Wait, I USED to swallow shampoo. I don’t thankfully anymore. We’re talking about something I used to do years and years ago.
 
mrajax said:
Wait, I USED to swallow shampoo. I don’t thankfully anymore. We’re talking about something I used to do years and years ago.
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That is a step forward.

Every single thing you realize now that you didn’t used to see, that is a step forward.

Knowing the truth in your mind even though your body doesn’t always remember is still a step forward.

Caring whether other people enjoy you or not is a good quality. Being willing to listen to difficult truths about yourself is a good quality, and not a common one. Being willing to kick yourself in order to make progress is a good quality, and not one that everyone has. Being a survivor, not letting yourself be broken by what has been done to you or giving up on humanity because of what has been done to you, that is a good quality, and uncommon enough that others find it inspiring.

Self-loathing? Someone here has been there, done that. Been a first-class pain as a friend? Someone has been there, done that. Listened to an abusive mother who was killing them a little bit at a time? Knew what she was doing, still let it happen again. A LOT of us come here so we can unload to someone who couldn’t point us out in our own parish or because we don’t want our own family mad at us.

As for steps backward, no one gets out of their childhood stuff in a bee-line. No one does. It would be like being a plant with all roots that went straight. It would be like climbing a mountain by just going straight up, with no dips or turns in the trail. It doesn’t happen. It is probably because, like the mountain trail, we could not bear a path like that. Even two-steps-forward-one-point-eight-steps-back is not really going backwards. It is how the 0.2 is to be gained.

As for your “likeability” rating, well, not all the saints were all that “likeable” in the current sense. St. Catherine of Genoa didn’t have what anyone would call a sense of humor. She was an austere person, like one of those windswept desert trees. The saints had all the variations to be found in the human person. You, too, are the stuff that a saint may be made of. Maybe not a happy-clappy saint, but a saint, and every saint is beautiful to God and will be truly and unreservedly happy forever with God.

Some trees look like they are perfectly straight, but under the soil, they have kinks and curves and stunted bits. Other trees are counted as the most interesting because they are not straight, because the way they adapted to a constant wind shows in the way they bend and turn. To be alive is to have some kinks and turns, and to be beautiful doesn’t mean having everything that shows perfectly straight, either.

Keep coming here. Get support where you can, and don’t apologize for it. The Lord said, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me.” If you think you are stranger than most and least than most, well, that means we do not have a single thing in the world that is more important than welcoming you. Come on over, and make sure everyone gets a good chance. The lower any of us feels we are, the greater the reward of anyone who stops to notice us. That’s a good thing for anyone who helps you, not a bad thing. All of the Kingdom of God, you see, is always a win-win, for those who will buy in. Just keep your eye out, though. Before you know it, someone more in need than you are will be there, and yours to help from a place that no one else has to offer.
 
I’m so sorry sweetie, just know that you are beautiful and loved by God.

what horrible things people did to you, they will have to answer for.

therapy is a good idea. perhaps there is a priest you can talk to also? and try to find some people who will be positive and uplifting.

and keep coming to the forums, there are great people who are encouraging
 
**I will pray for you.

Blessed Mother, please intercede for us.
Hold the sorrowful, strengthen the fearful,
mother and love the weary, abused, neglected
or forgotten among us,
give your aid to all needing help or healing,
assist those who are sick, in pain or suffering,
be with those needing peace,
console the lonely or brokenhearted,
comfort the lost or hopeless,
guard the unborn,
pray for those who are dying or who have died,
soften those with hardened hearts,
enlighten those who do not yet see truth,
help us be brave enough to let our hurt and anger go,
show us the way to do the right thing,
protect those who are in danger,
and guide us from every evil.
May all who keep your sacred commemoration
experience the might of your assistance.
Amen :gopray:**
 
First part of two posts

First of all, I would say to you that getting over feelings of self-loathing, feelings of being creepy, social awkwardness, will not happen overnight. I have had all of these problems, though not the specific trials you have had to face. Dealing with these problems is a slow and tedious task that requires you to kick yourself repeatedly every day even when you don’t want to do what you don’t want to do.

For self-loathing, the main thing is to not dwell upon your past errors. What’s done cannot be undone. All you can do now is strive to not repeat your past errors and not hurt people now. If you make an error, figure out what it is and learn from it. Figure out how not to do it again. Then you have to keep practicing not doing it again by deliberately not doing it. That doesn’t mean you’ll start to feel great about yourself right away. You just have to realize that your emotions are not matching up with reality. The reality is that you can’t change what you’ve done, so feeling bad about it is a waste of time. Feeling bad is just a motivation to repent of your error and change your ways so as to become better and not do that thing that made you feel like rotten flesh again. When I feel like rotten flesh or have bad thoughts (for example, you say you struggle with thoughts of bloody imagery), I say, “I feel like rotten flesh (Or I’m having such-and-such a thought.) Too bad. I’m going to go read Plato’s Republic now.” Instead of stewing in negative feelings, we must distract ourselves even when it feels like we’re dragging ourselves through a pit of quicksand and we’re faced with a brick wall that has no top or bottom.

So, if you do something that you realize creeps somebody out (for example, staring at her continually and never going up to talk to her–not that you do that, it’s just an example)–you have to learn to stop staring at people like that. You have to learn to instead go up to talk to them, and if you realize that some of the things you say come across as creepy, don’t blame yourself for that. Since you are socially awkward, you will not be aware of what is creepy and not until people tell you (I have this problem as well, I do not know what is considered creepy or not or weird so I often say nothing at all). Once you recognize what is creepy, start to change it. It is perhaps a habit that you do creepy things, but you can unlearn that habit and develop the habit of not being creepy or not being as socially awkward.

Part of learning to not be creepy and socially awkward is to learn some basic social skills (I’ve been learning these myself so I’ll share them with you).

How Not to Be Creepy 101 (with a concentration in decreasing social awkwardness)

The basic way to not be creepy is to be like everybody else.

Does that mean you have to be a “pod person”? A cookie-cutter like robot who has no personality, no individuality, who imitates everyone like a chimp with a parrot beak?

No. It simply means that you hold fast to this important rule of social interaction:
  1. Ask people questions about themselves that have to do with likes/dislikes, hobbies, careers, hopes and dreams, BUT DO NOT ASK anything relating to VIOLENCE, SEX, GORE, ASSAULT, ETC–UNLESS the person chooses to bring up the topic for the purpose of revealing some traumatic incident or something that happened to them, or else they are quite creepy. So, don’t ask someone, “Have you ever thought about ripping your toenails off and dipping them in blood like chips and salsa?” And if someone ever asks you something similar, that comes across to most as creepy and weird.
The fact is this. Most people do not want to be friends with people who rarely or never ask questions about them so that you can find common ground to talk about more. I’m not saying you don’t ask people questions, but in case you don’t or you tend to ask creepy questions, I’m putting this out there.

What sort of questions are appropriate? I recommend creating a list like the following, and practicing it on people when you get the chance so you can have it mostly memorized.

Ten questions I have on my list are:
  1. What do you want to be when you grow up (or if they are already grown up, you can ask “What did you want to be when you grew up as a kid?”
  2. Do you have a favorite book?
  3. Do you have a favorite movie?
  4. What’s your job? If you could have any job in the world, what would it be?
  5. Do you like to talk or do you like to be quiet?
  6. What do you like to talk about? Anything, or are there specific topics you find interesting (I for one especially like to discuss philosophy)
  7. Would you rather talk to people or watch people (e.g., people-watching like psychologists supposedly do so they look clever and mysterious)
  8. Where have you all travelled? Where would you like to travel? Did you have a favorite place/least favorite place?
  9. Do you have a favorite type of music?
  10. What do you think of Artificial Intelligence? Do you think computers and iPhones can really think or are they just lifeless machines?
You can be creative and avoid creepiness. And, most people, when you ask them these sorts of questions, will ask you the same question back. So, if you ask someone what his favorite book his, he probably will ask you what your favorite book is too. So, be prepared to answer these questions yourselves in case people ask back.

If you don’t want to get to know people and ask them questions, then the truth is that you’re probably not going to make any friends.
 
part 2 of 2

Also, if you’re trying to be friends with a person, don’t initiate contact too frequently. So, don’t ask this new person you met over facebook (hypothetical, I don’t know if you even have an FB) a new random question every day. Ask a question once, let him reply. See how long it takes him to reply and space out your replies to be about as often as his replies. If he takes three days to reply, take three days to reply back. Etc., etc.
I used to never talk to people and had basically one friend, but thanks to the encouragement of fellow weirdoes like myself I learned the art of talking to people (slowly but surely and painfully and anxiety-ridden in many cases) and now have quite a few more friends. It takes work. Observing the behavior of others in how they interact with their friends and with you can help in learning how to be a friend. I am just now starting to learn how to ask people if they want to hang out. It is a tedious art. The art of making friends, often riddled with misery. Most of the time I would rather read some books on philosophy in my little cave and never talk to anybody, but the truth is that there is a time to die! a time to die to our selfish whims! And if you ever want to be my friend, you’re welcome to PM me, I’m quite happy to be.

Also, let me just add that some people just don’t want to friends with some people. So, some people might not like you or want to be your friend even if you’re not being creepy or anything. It’s not your fault. They just maybe have schizoid personality disorder or prefer talking to their old friends (haven’t they heard the girl-scout chant? “Make new friends, but keep the old; one is silver and the other gold!”). Beware of assuming that you are responsible when people don’t want to be your friend. Some people are just not friendly, some people don’t like people who don’t like polynomial division, etc. So, if you don’t like polynomial division, don’t try to change so that one person will be your friend. Just let him be and be ready to introduce yourself to someone else who is more welcoming (of course, you won’t know if he or she is welcoming until you introduce yourself first–and sometimes people appear unwelcoming until you get to know them more–usually by asking some questions like the ones in the above list).

Oh, just this little story I must share. One girl would never even look at me or talk to me and one day I asked her, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” and suddenly she took a great liking to me and invited me to take all these snacks and treats and to hang out with her and her friend (but I had to go to bed, so that didn’t all work out). You never know the person hiding behind the silence.
 
Thank you for your responses everybody. Unfortunately one thing that is bothering me a lot is that yes, even though it is good to forget the past and to not dwell on your errors, there’s still the fact that I meet up with people whom I wronged.

People I was unintentionally creepy with, people who don’t like my ‘controversial’ opinions, people whom maybe think of me as immature or mentally backward due to my awkwardness.

Sometimes I feel I do exagerate my actions too much, or their consequences especially since nobody has actually called me out or anything about me being creep; I just found out I was making people uncomfortable through observation and instinct.
 
Okay, well I would say that if I encountered people I have hurt (who still hold my crimes against me), yet if I’m truly sorry for what I’ve done to them and I try to treat them with kindness–and they still hate me–that’s their problem. You can’t change them but only yourself.
 
Mrajax, have you been to counseling for any of your issues? I really think you would benefit from that greatly. To have one person in your life that knows your history and is able to guide you would be very helpful in getting you to the person you want to be.they would offer consistent, regular support for your questions as they arise.

May God bless you and guide you.
 
Hi mrajax:

There is nothing wrong with seeing a therapist and you may find that very helpful.

A couple things do stand out in your posts that you can do now. These are Faith based. This is a Catholic forum.

First, stop saying anything bad about yourself. Start saying positive things about yourself and recite specific scriptural passages that reinforce that. There are many, and if you start listening to religious scholars your will learn about them. A few include: Is 45:24, Is 45:2, Is 40:28-31.

Your words have power. That means if you choose to say negative things then you are choosing a negative future. Don’t do that. As a Christian, faith in Jesus Christ confers on you righteousness and strength (Is 45:24). Your job is to accept what you are freely given.
Jesus built His church on imperfect, flawed individuals who said “yes”.

Negative self talk is a trap anyone can fall into. Even people who on the surface seem to “have it all” can fall into this trap. The way it works is we look at one area where we fall short and dwell on it. Then the toxic effect spreads. The opposite is also true. Start saying positive things and the positive effect will spread.

Obviously, you should have a plan for weekly Mass, regular confession, and daily time with God in prayer and Bible study.

Also, in groups everyone makes mistakes. I do to. And guess what? People understand that, and if you develop a humble attitude, people tend to overlook your mistakes.

You can also build self confidence by working on your physical fitness. Find a sport you like and train for it. If it involves a group, that will be a great way to meet people. When you interact with people, be a man of few words at least until you learn the social etiquette of the group.

Good luck.
 
mrajax said:
Thank you for your responses everybody. Unfortunately one thing that is bothering me a lot is that yes, even though it is good to forget the past and to not dwell on your errors, there’s still the fact that I meet up with people whom I wronged.

People I was unintentionally creepy with, people who don’t like my ‘controversial’ opinions, people whom maybe think of me as immature or mentally backward due to my awkwardness.

Sometimes I feel I do exagerate my actions too much, or their consequences especially since nobody has actually called me out or anything about me being creep; I just found out I was making people uncomfortable through observation and instinct.
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Dear, no you don’t have to. They could feel it’s creepy to bring those things up.
If they had problems with you, it’s their problem. Nobody’s perfect, not them, not you, not me.
I deeply regret times people misunderstood me and so judged harshly, especially when it in some way hurt or alienated them. That’s happened may times. When people misjudge you or assess your intentions in unjust unfavorable light, they’re harming themselves as well as you. They don’t say it so much now but people used to say I was odd, or different, but I’m older now and know mostly how the best to make others feel good. I still sometimes fail. You’re far from the only one.

Only in the last week did I again feel terribly hurt over the consistent misjudgment of me by someone who ought to have been more charitable. I didn’t stand up for myself at the time because he was someone who always thought he had special insight, but he was badly wrong in thinking badly of me in the way he did. In the middle of the night last week, I wrote a letter about it all. I didn’t send it but it helped to put it down on paper. A couple of days later I found out why it had all come up to really upset me again this month with the injustice of his continuing judgement.

I looked up his name on the internet and found he’s just died this month. Now he knew how wrong he was about me, and my intentions, and maybe my sharp sense of injustice was his recognition he had been very unfair always to me. I just prayed that God would forgive him for any misjudgement. I talked to him in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, and asked him to pray for the attainment of good in my life and the person in my life he most failed. I asked God not to punish him for his misjudgement of me or anyone else, just to give grace and healing to us, because the harm couldn’t be undone, but grace could benefit us.

I’m a little different maybe and so maybe are you, so people have often had the wrong idea about my innocent and well-meant intentions. There doesn’t seem to be anything much one can do about it. I worry too sometimes, and want to fix things, but mostly it’s no use. It’s not really possible to change people’s minds about you/me. They have you in the box they put you in. It’s terribly arrogant of them really, but it’s what people do.

You need not to be so hard on yourself. If people misjudge you, it reflects on them, really. They’re the one’s misjudging and thinking less of you. presuming they know when they really don’t. I was praying with a special nun once and she was holding my hand as she prayed for me. I felt incredible warmth and gentleness from her hand. She said a couple of very surprising things she couldn’t have known except by God’s grace, but she added, “Don’t judge yourself harshly as others do.” (I hadn’t told her they did).

You could also be wrong sometimes about what others think of you. The truth is mostly they don’t care enough about you or anyone else unless there’s something they have invested or need of you. People don’t really care that much about others really. One knows that because of how quickly they fade away. We’re lucky if we have some family member who cares more, or a friend who does, but life is a lonely thing mostly. So live your life the best you can, and as kindly as you can manage, but try not to worry so much, something I often need to say to myself!

God bless you and grant you peace and fulfillment…
 
Mrajax, I realize your last post in this thread was 14 days ago. Are you still following?

I have been reading your posts for quite some time, but I do not know if I have ever replied. I cannot fully understand what you have experienced and the difficulties you have shared here. Some things I can understand a bit, though.

Though much older than you, I understand being socially awkward and disappointment with the knowledge that I have made and continue to make people uncomfortable in my interaction with them. Over the past 2-1/2 years, it seems I have made some progress in this and other areas. The progress made seems quite small compared to the enormity of this problem and others with which I struggle. Considering how long these problems have existed though, and probably festered, continuing to worsen, that progress has been made at all is objectively very good. Though I think I have much more clarity concerning myself and my life than I used to have, my vision is still very clouded. I believe I see well enough though, to understand that I was not responsible for the good that has been done. It has been all God. It was 2-1/2 years ago that God became a much more central focus of my life. It seems even that was His doing, though. Without God I would be dead now, and not in a happy place. Getting out of the mess I am in is only going to occur by the grace of God. That much is absolutely clear to me.

I think I understand much better now that the good we do and the healing that occurs is by the grace of God. The bad that we do is all our own. In reading your posts, I always was a bit saddened because your religion is listed as “Atheist; agnostic”. God’s love is not dependent on us believing in Him, but I believe we probably deny ourselves the full benefits of His love when we are not open to it. I will pray that God sustain you and that your heart is opened to Him so that you may benefit more from His graces as I have.
 
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