Getting Saved

[Legal_Eagle]

I’m trying to track down the origin of the Evangelical experience of “getting saved” as being a one moment in time, once and for all, giving your heart to Jesus event. The “walking the aisle” experience seems to have originated with Charles Grandison Finney in the early 19th Century. Does anyone know whether the “getting saved” experience and the theology surrounding it originated with him as well, or is it older? Do any Christian denominations who do not have their origins in American Evangelicalism (is Evangelicalism a word?) have a similar “getting saved” experience?

Any links to source documents would be appreciated.

Peace,

 

[mdkirkbride]

Depends on your meaning for ‘getting saved’ if it is Conversion, then some do it slowly (I’m thinking of St. Augustine) and some do it quickly (like St. Paul’s conversion). If you are referring to ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ I think Calvin was the origin of that concept.

 

[Legal_Eagle]

Depends on your meaning for ‘getting saved’ if it is Conversion, then some do it slowly (I’m thinking of St. Augustine) and some do it quickly (like St. Paul’s conversion). If you are referring to ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ I think Calvin was the origin of that concept.

I’m specifically talking about what I believe to be an American Evangelical experience of a one moment in time “getting saved” event.

Peace,

 

[CompSciGuy]

I’m specifically talking about what I believe to be an American Evangelical experience of a one moment in time “getting saved” event.

Peace,

In other words, the moment when you come to “saving faith,” and give your life to Christ. This is what Evangelicals understand as “getting saved.” We understand it as a “spiritual conversion” of the heart. The difference is that they think that at that point in time your eternity is solidified; we understand it as the beginning of a journey of faith.

 

[Legal_Eagle]

In other words, the moment when you come to “saving faith,” and give your life to Christ. This is what Evangelicals understand as “getting saved.” We understand it as a “spiritual conversion” of the heart. The difference is that they think that at that point in time your eternity is solidified; we understand it as the beginning of a journey of faith.

Sort of…

I suppose an example of what I’m refering to would be like so…

Bro. John: “Jimmy, if you died tonight, where would you spend eternity?”

Jimmy: “I got saved on June 3, 1986. I was 15 years old and my grandaddy led me to Jesus sitting at the farm in his old Ford pick up. The next Sunday I walked the aisle and joined the church. Two weeks later I got baptized. So, I know that if I died tonight I will spend eternity in heaven.”

I’m looking for the historical origins of the theology that would back up such an experience.

Peace,

 

[mdkirkbride]

I’d consider that Calvin’s ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ concept.

 

[ltwin]

If I’m not mistaken, the Puritans believed that there had to be some type of experience which pointed to you being one of the elect. (Of course, since they believed in predestination, they were always looking for signs that they were one of the elect as opposed to one of the reprobate.)

I think you have to distinguish between those who see their “getting saved” or “new birth” experience in the framework of a Once Saved Always Saved theology or in the framework of theology which believes that one can lose salvation. These are two different things, but adherents of both tend to use the same language, so it can be confusing.

 

[Holly3278]

There are evangelicals who believe in the “getting saved” thing but do not believe in “once saved always saved”. They believe you can lose your salvation. I have met some who say that you lose your salvation any time you commit a sin, even if its what we would call a venial sin.

 

[Publisher]

There are evangelicals who believe in the “getting saved” thing but do not believe in “once saved always saved”. They believe you can lose your salvation. I have met some who say that you lose your salvation any time you commit a sin, even if its what we would call a venial sin.

And then there are those of us who believe being “saved” is a present reality as well as a continuing and future event.

Some of us do not beleive in “once saved always saved”…and do believe one can loose their salvation…BUT also believe that there is grace and mercy for those who “fall into sin” and that the continuing work of the Holy Spirit is to keep us cleansed of sin…holiness/sanctification is a process and an experience.

 

[CompSciGuy]

I’d consider that Calvin’s ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ concept.

I don’t know if Calvin is best credited with that idea. I think Calvin’s thinking was something like “everyone is born with their destiny already planned out for them.” You can have an idea of your salvation based on how you live your life. If you live in holiness then you are more likely to be one of the elect. There wasn’t this idea that "I can know with absolute certainty of the state of my soul.

 

[meltzerboy]

This is a foreign, albeit fascinating, conversation for Judaism, which does not focus on salvation. Insofar as atoning for sins, that is always possible by means of prayer, good deeds, and seeking forgiveness from others. But we leave our eternal salvation to G-d’s mercy and justice and concern ourselves with the here and now and trying to behave according to the moral values specified in the Torah.

 

[sallybutler]

I’m specifically talking about what I believe to be an American Evangelical experience of a one moment in time “getting saved” event.

Peace,

I believe you are looking for a history of the practice known as “alter call” According to wikipedia, it became popular in the 19th century thru the efforts of Finney, an evangelist of the time.

 

[Zooey]

And then there are those of us who believe being “saved” is a present reality as well as a continuing and future event.

Some of us do not beleive in “once saved always saved”…and do believe one can loose their salvation…BUT also believe that there is grace and mercy for those who “fall into sin” and that the continuing work of the Holy Spirit is to keep us cleansed of sin…holiness/sanctification is a process and an experience.

Yes, it is a process!

This is a foreign, albeit fascinating, conversation for Judaism, which does not focus on salvation. Insofar as atoning for sins, that is always possible by means of prayer, good deeds, and seeking forgiveness from others. But we leave our eternal salvation to G-d’s mercy and justice and concern ourselves with the here and now and trying to behave according to the moral values specified in the Torah.

And we must all look to God’s mercy.

I think that the idea may have originated with Finney. It seems to have arisen during what was called the Great Awakening. (Or the Second Great Awakening. Us crazy United Methodists have trouble remebering what the difference is between the two).

Anyhow, the shrug:extremely wonky, IMNSHO) basis for all this seems to go back to the fact that John Wesley suffered for much of his childhood & young adulthood from what Catholics would call “scrupulosity”. After many years of misery, he wrote that “I was one night in Aldersgate” when he suddenly realized (from a sermon he heard there) that he had been trusting in Jesus Christ for his eternal salvation for all his life, & that he no longer needed to be anxious and fearful, but that he should continue to trust in God, instead of being afraid of God.
This was the beginning of a deeper & more faithful Christian life for him. Some Methodist sources suggest that he may have been reading about --or from the works of–St Teresa of Avila at the time, and that what she had experienced was the beginning of his deeper understanding of the love, mercy, and–above all–grace of God. (IN any case, I am not the first, nor the only, Methodist, to have found her a source of deep inspiration).
But this “Aldersgate” experience was in no way a “getting saved” experience. Fr. Wesley was a faithful Christian of many years, an active Church of England priest, & a former missionary to Georgia. (The one in the southern US, although still a colony of the British at the time).

 

[AmateurPianist]

I’m trying to track down the origin of the Evangelical experience of “getting saved” as being a one moment in time, once and for all, giving your heart to Jesus event. The “walking the aisle” experience seems to have originated with Charles Grandison Finney in the early 19th Century. Does anyone know whether the “getting saved” experience and the theology surrounding it originated with him as well, or is it older? Do any Christian denominations who do not have their origins in American Evangelicalism (is Evangelicalism a word?) have a similar “getting saved” experience?

Any links to source documents would be appreciated.

Peace,

“Getting saved” is evangelical Christianese (words and phrases that Christains use that are confusing to those outside of the club).

It helps me to think of the Christian walk as a journey with Jesus Christ. This journey has a distinct starting point. At this point one’s eternal destination changes from the destination that unbelievers share to the one that fellow believers who are on this journey share. There are other things that happen at this starting point, but a change in eternal destination is one of them. Hence the somewhat confusing phrase of “getting saved”.

It is a separate issue as to whether this change in eternal destination is reversible and under what conditions it can be reversed.

There are also other separate issues that I won’t get into at this time.

Just think of it as the starting point of a journey. I find that to be helpful.

 

[Contarini]

I’m trying to track down the origin of the Evangelical experience of “getting saved” as being a one moment in time, once and for all, giving your heart to Jesus event. The “walking the aisle” experience seems to have originated with Charles Grandison Finney in the early 19th Century. Does anyone know whether the “getting saved” experience and the theology surrounding it originated with him as well, or is it older? Do any Christian denominations who do not have their origins in American Evangelicalism (is Evangelicalism a word?) have a similar “getting saved” experience?

Any links to source documents would be appreciated.

Peace,

It’s Anglo-German in origin, not American. I’d say it has dual origins–Puritanism and Pietism. Of course the concept of a conversion experience goes back at least to Augustine if not to Paul, but the idea that this experience should be identified with regeneration is, I think, largely an invention of 17th-century Protestants.

The two streams came together in 18th-century revivalism–what in America is called the “First Great Awakening.” Much of this movement was Calvinist–conversion was the result of regeneration, which in turn was God’s sovereign act. The Wesley brothers in England, on the other hand, held that conversion was a human choice enabled by “prevenient grace.”

Finney, in the “Second Great Awakening,” broke with both these positions (while still refusing to call himself an Arminian, ironically), by arguing that humans have a “natural ability” to turn to God and that particular revivalist techniques can predictably produce conversions, something both Wesleyan and Calvinist versions of evangelicalism had denied. That I think is a key moment in the development of modern American evangelicalism. But he didn’t invent the idea of a conversion experience as something either directly leading to or directly produced by regeneration.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Depends on your meaning for ‘getting saved’ if it is Conversion, then some do it slowly (I’m thinking of St. Augustine) and some do it quickly (like St. Paul’s conversion). If you are referring to ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ I think Calvin was the origin of that concept.

No. Zwingli and others (Oecolampadius, Bucer) taught it before Calvin came along.

Also there’s the forgotten Martin Borrhaus or “Cellarius” (I’m one of the few people interested in him), who believed that the elect have “sparks” within them that influence their behavior even before their regeneration!

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I don’t know if Calvin is best credited with that idea. I think Calvin’s thinking was something like “everyone is born with their destiny already planned out for them.” You can have an idea of your salvation based on how you live your life. If you live in holiness then you are more likely to be one of the elect. There wasn’t this idea that "I can know with absolute certainty of the state of my soul.

No, Calvin thought you could be certain that you were among the elect. In fact, that is an intrinsic part of faith for him. However, he granted that because of human weakness a true believer might struggle with doubt. (See Institutes 3.2.15-23.) I actually don’t find Calvin telling people to look at their good works as evidence that they are elect. I wouldn’t swear that he never did so, but the general consensus of scholarship on Calvin (from Max Weber to Richard Muller) is that this isn’t Calvin’s primary approach. You find this more in later figures like Beza and the Puritans, though Muller argues that they aren’t as different from Calvin on this as some have claimed. Calvin certainly insisted that the elect would produce good works, but he believed, like Luther, that truly godly people were acutely conscious of their own sinfulness, so looking at their good works as a source of assurance would be a recipe for trouble!

Edwin

 

[ltwin]

“Getting saved” is evangelical Christianese (words and phrases that Christains use that are confusing to those outside of the club).

It helps me to think of the Christian walk as a journey with Jesus Christ. This journey has a distinct starting point. At this point one’s eternal destination changes from the destination that unbelievers share to the one that fellow believers who are on this journey share. There are other things that happen at this starting point, but a change in eternal destination is one of them. Hence the somewhat confusing phrase of “getting saved”.

It is a separate issue as to whether this change in eternal destination is reversible and under what conditions it can be reversed.

There are also other separate issues that I won’t get into at this time.

Just think of it as the starting point of a journey. I find that to be helpful.

Well said.

 

[JustaServant]

First of all, the dramatic life-changing “getting saved” experiences reported by many evangelicals is subjective – they vary in degree from person to person.

Secondly, these groups then take what is subjective and try to make it*** normative***. In other words, they take these very personal encounters and insist that everyone must have a similar experience.

Lastly, these groups “re-Baptize” when they recruit ex-Catholics. This is what makes them of particular concern: they teach that the legitimate, licit, formal Baptism received by Catholics as infants into Jesus Christ is of no consequence, and must be replaced by a “Believer’s Baptism” in order for one to be able to say one is Baptized.

Catholic Baptism, on the other hand, is objective – as with all of the Sacraments, it is an act of God Himself. So whether one is an infant or an adult, one can be sure that if the right form and matter were used, one is Baptized into Jesus Christ, and has every right to the name of Christian. One can reasonably have the assurance of hope that if one obeys the commandments, loving God and loving neighbor and confessing/repenting of all mortal sin, one will be saved by Jesus Christ from judgment and hell.
It’s possible for Catholics to have the dramatic “experience” attested by many non-Catholics. But the “experience” is not equated with salvation. 2000 years of Church history is silent on that, until the last two centuries.
But the perception of non-Catholics is that these folks are “saved” by virtue of their experience, and in spite of the Church rather than through Her.

 

[JRRTFAN]

I’d consider that Calvin’s ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ concept.

I don’t think that’s Calvin’s concept. Calvin was the originator of TULIP, which has no standing with the concept of a person deciding anything, much less deciding to be saved.

I think it would be extremely interesting to find out the basis for OSAS (in a flash of time) I heard a Catholic Answers show where the guest attributed the concept to people like Billy Graham and Bill Bright (Campus Crusade for Christ). I suspect that if it didn’t arise there it was certainly given “legs” by those guys.