Getting the Bible message before print came along?

[agnostic]

As someone who has no religion as such I was just wondering about something. There seems to be a lot of arguement here between people who believe everything you need is in the Bible, and people who believe you have to have the Bible, but also priests and churches and stuff.

But the Bible as it exists and easily available to all in different languages only happened since printing came along, right?

So what did people do before printing made the Bible available? How could you believe that all you need to believe in God and be saved is believe in the Bible only, if you never even saw one?

My reason for asking is I’ve bought a Bible and I’m starting to read it, and it just got me wondering. Sorry if the question isn’t phrased properly but I hope you can figure what I’m trying to ask. I gotta say, reading these boards is a bit like learning a foreign language for someone like me

If I get confused with something I don’t understand, what am I supposed to do - pray to God to make it clear to me what it is I’m reading, or go to a priest and ask him to explain it to me Or join a study group of some sort.

How would I know I’m getting the right information or interpretation if I did got to a priest or study group as there seems to be so much disagreemeent between believers about what this that or the other passage means.

 

[PaulDupre]

Before there was a New Testament and before people had ready access to scripture, they were taught orally by the Church. The Church transmitted the deposit of faith orally from generation to generation. The gospel was taught through sermons, through music and through art, but mostly through the liturgy of the mass.

The mass teaches the gospel better than any other method.

 

[agnostic]

Before there was a New Testament and before people had ready access to scripture, they were taught orally by the Church. The Church transmitted the deposit of faith orally from generation to generation. The gospel was taught through sermons, through music and through art, but mostly through the liturgy of the mass.

The mass teaches the gospel better than any other method.

Ok - but did these guys have a central school or something - what I’m thinking is how would a preacher in say, north africa, know what they were teaching people was consistent with what a preacher in say, france was teaching?

 

[RobHom]

Ok - but did these guys have a central school or something - what I’m thinking is how would a preacher in say, north africa, know what they were teaching people was consistent with what a preacher in say, france was teaching?

In the early days, much was done by traveling people like missionaries. Other methods were letters sent on by couriers.

 

[agnostic]

In the early days, much was done by traveling people like missionaries. Other methods were letters sent on by couriers.

Ok - that makes sense. Now, the people that tell me all I need to know is in the bible and I don’t need to go to a church or a priest, this wouldn’t have been the case if I was born 700 years ago would it? I could only have got my religious information from one of these missionaries or preacher with a letter. Right?
So when did this change and why? Because 700 years ago, I would probably have been following what all the other believers were up to, and taking direction from the missionaries, but 700 years later, some people tell me all I need is the Bible so the missionaries and preachers or priests are redundant.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Ok - that makes sense. Now, the people that tell me all I need to know is in the bible and I don’t need to go to a church or a priest, this wouldn’t have been the case if I was born 700 years ago would it? I could only have got my religious information from one of these missionaries or preacher with a letter. Right?
So when did this change and why? Because 700 years ago, I would probably have been following what all the other believers were up to, and taking direction from the missionaries, but 700 years later, some people tell me all I need is the Bible so the missionaries and preachers or priests are redundant.

Catholics, who comprise the majority of Christians in the world, believe that it has never changed.

We believe that our church was founded by Christ and that he is leading it into all truth.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

My reason for asking is I’ve bought a Bible and I’m starting to read it, and it just got me wondering. Sorry if the question isn’t phrased properly but I hope you can figure what I’m trying to ask. I gotta say, reading these boards is a bit like learning a foreign language for someone like me

You also might want to read:

“Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church”

…and the actual Catechism of the Catholic Church

…and the CCC index

…and the search utility for the CCC

You can also get those in book form.

Other good reading is:

Some bible study material (online)
(( From here: Scott Hahn ))

And don’t forget the “usual suspects”:

New Advent (encyclopedia)
Online NewAmericanBible via the USCCB
The “Original Catholic Encyclopedia”

…and, of course, ask for help here on CAF!

That should help.

The point is that while reading the bible is a good thing in itself, you WILL need help understanding what you are reading, as the bible isn’t so much “A” book as a large collection of books of different types.

Once again, if you need any help, PLEASE ask for it!

 

[agnostic]

Catholics, who comprise the majority of Christians in the world, believe that it has never changed.

We believe that our church was founded by Christ and that he is leading it into all truth.

Ok - so the consistency in teaching and interpretation comes from where? The problem I have with the idea that all I need to know is contained in the Bible, is that I don’t UNDERSTAND what I’m reading, so how can I hope to find any answers. Some bits are ok, like the straightforward stories with a message, but sheesh, I read some old testement stuff and my brain froze and my eyes clouded over !!!

 

[agnostic]

You also might want to read:

“Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church”

…and the actual Catechism of the Catholic Church

…and the CCC index

…and the search utility for the CCC

You can also get those in book form.

Other good reading is:

Some bible study material (online)
(( From here: Scott Hahn ))

And don’t forget the “usual suspects”:

New Advent (encyclopedia)
Online NewAmericanBible via the USCCB
The “Original Catholic Encyclopedia”

…and, of course, ask for help here on CAF!

That should help.

The point is that while reading the bible is a good thing in itself, you WILL need help understanding what you are reading, as the bible isn’t so much “A” book as a large collection of books of different types.

Once again, if you need any help, PLEASE ask for it!

Thanks for this

 

[RobHom]

Ok - that makes sense. Now, the people that tell me all I need to know is in the bible and I don’t need to go to a church or a priest, this wouldn’t have been the case if I was born 700 years ago would it?

No, it would not have been the case. Going back even more than 700 years ago, to the time of Christ or just after His time, you would have been learning directly from people who knew Him either first hand or knew the Apostles or others close to them. You would have learned through oral tradition as well as from writings.

I could only have got my religious information from one of these missionaries or preacher with a letter. Right?

Simply put…yes.

So when did this change and why?

It all began in the 1500’s…a period known as the Reformation. A time when men decided to change their beliefs and adopt other beliefs outside the Church. The result is the many thousands of churches that are not in harmony today.

Because 700 years ago, I would probably have been following what all the other believers were up to, and taking direction from the missionaries, but 700 years later, some people tell me all I need is the Bible so the missionaries and preachers or priests are redundant.

The thought that missionaries, preachers, and priests is a far more modern creation or idea spawned by man than they would like you to think. Here is an article that gives some explanation. usnews.com/blogs/faith-matters/2007/11/16/the-birth-of-fundamentalism.html Whats particularly interesting is the last line of the article!!

Here is another article: shellier.co.uk/fundamentalism.htm

Its best to be wary of they who speak of the lack of necessity for “proper teachers”…they speak with a “forked tongue”.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Ok - so the consistency in teaching and interpretation comes from where? The problem I have with the idea that all I need to know is contained in the Bible, is that I don’t UNDERSTAND what I’m reading, so how can I hope to find any answers. Some bits are ok, like the straightforward stories with a message, but sheesh, I read some old testement stuff and my brain froze and my eyes clouded over !!!

If you believe that God exists, or if you are willing to assume that he might exist, then you would probably agree that it is not unlikely that he would interact with humans.

It is also not unlikely that he would choose certain humans to reveal himself to more completely than others.

I think the understanding of the history of God’s interaction with man is most complete in the Catholic Church. I converted to Catholicsm, I wasn’t raised as a Catholic.

I think the most compelling testimonies of the veracity of scripture and Catholicsm come from Jewish Converts.

Check out:

Salvation is from the Jews, by Roy Shoeman

 

[RobHom]

Ok - so the consistency in teaching and interpretation comes from where? The problem I have with the idea that all I need to know is contained in the Bible, is that I don’t UNDERSTAND what I’m reading, so how can I hope to find any answers. Some bits are ok, like the straightforward stories with a message, but sheesh, I read some old testement stuff and my brain froze and my eyes clouded over !!!

Allow me to suggest that maybe one way to avoid some of the 'brain freeze"…with which many of us can identify with would be to go here and use this on line Bible: drbo.org/ On this site you will find the entire Bible… its the Catholic Bible in English, translated from the Latin Vulgate. Its probably the truest translation there is. The benefit to using this Bible is that there are many places where the passages are explained. Take for instance this page…which is the 11th Chapter of 1st Corinthians. drbo.org/chapter/53011.htm On the page you will find the scriptures printed in black, and the explanations in a brown color. It can help a lot.

Also, another item of differentiation… The Douay-Rheims Bible that I posted the link to…contains all 73 Books of the Bible, meaning that the Apocryphal Books are included as they are in all Catholic Bibles. They are indicated by an * asterisk by the name of the book. These books have been deleted from the Bible by many other non-Catholic Churches.

Hope that helps.

 

[agnostic]

So if I’m getting this - teaching was done word of mouth, by missionaries who travelled all over, and these teachers got their information directly from people who knew Christ - then later along came the Bible, and even later along came the idea that the teachers and preachers were not needed, as everything a person needed to know what contained in the Bible. But this could only have happened when everyone had access to a Bible, after printing came along, because otherwise you would still need a preacher/teacher as you’d not likely have seen a Bible.

Seems to me on first thought that the guys before the reformation had it right I’m saying this only on the basis that if I needed something clearing up for me, I’d feel good about going to someone who knew someone who knew someone who knew Christ, rather than just hoping I’d got it right. If that makes any sense.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

So if I’m getting this - teaching was done word of mouth, by missionaries who travelled all over, and these teachers got their information directly from people who knew Christ - then later along came the Bible, and even later along came the idea that the teachers and preachers were not needed, as everything a person needed to know what contained in the Bible. But this could only have happened when everyone had access to a Bible, after printing came along, because otherwise you would still need a preacher/teacher as you’d not likely have seen a Bible.

Seems to me on first thought that the guys before the reformation had it right I’m saying this only on the basis that if I needed something clearing up for me, I’d feel good about going to someone who knew someone who knew someone who knew Christ, rather than just hoping I’d got it right. If that makes any sense.

It makes sense.

 

[agnostic]

Thanks for all those links guys - guess I need to cancel some monthly magazine subscriptions for a while, and stock up on tylenol

 

[RobHom]

Thanks for all those links guys - guess I need to cancel some monthly magazine subscriptions for a while, and stock up on tylenol

You might want to alternate them with something like ibuprofen or something else to avoid acetaminophen overdose!!

Here’s another link to add to your library for extra curricular reading: olrl.org/ Some very good information there regarding the Church and much more. Enjoy!!

 

[CatsAndDogs]

So if I’m getting this - teaching was done word of mouth, by missionaries who travelled all over, and these teachers got their information directly from people who knew Christ - then later along came the Bible, and even later along came the idea that the teachers and preachers were not needed, as everything a person needed to know what contained in the Bible. But this could only have happened when everyone had access to a Bible, after printing came along, because otherwise you would still need a preacher/teacher as you’d not likely have seen a Bible.

Seems to me on first thought that the guys before the reformation had it right I’m saying this only on the basis that if I needed something clearing up for me, I’d feel good about going to someone who knew someone who knew someone who knew Christ, rather than just hoping I’d got it right. If that makes any sense.

I simply CANNOT commend you highly enough for your profound lack of hardness of heart.

I’m very nearly speechless, which is a VERY odd condition for me, and am actually having a rather hard time typing this due to minor convulsions from trying to keep my diaphragm under control by not sobbing.

It’s been SO very “infuriating” that there are so many people who are so entrenched behind the barricade of needing proof of what they should believe in for their own good instead of believing in what gives them proof of what good means.

That infuriation has made me far less charitable than I need to be.

Thank you God, and thank you “agnostic” (which you obviously aren’t, in fact), and thank you Mother Mary for your help in getting an answer to one of my more urgent prayers, being my prayer for my having more charity in action of voice in these fori.

Yeah, it seems silly that I’d have such a reaction to someone with simple questions which are very easy to answer, but the example you, “agnostic”, have been for me of one with an open heart has been very moving, indeed. I can’t really thank you enough.

Don’t you HATE that when your breathing seizes up and your nose “leakings” make your upper lip quite the mess? I do, but it usually makes me laugh eventually, which I suppose is God’s little joke to get us out of our “sobbing self-absorption” and weepiness, and back into a better humor.

Best to you, and thanks so very much, and if you need anything please shout out! Go raibh céad míle maith agat. :shamrock2: