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Timothysis
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After the first couple of hundred you would probably lose count, wouldn’t you? And besides, if you were the only people around, why would you even bother?
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Darryl_B
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Presumption.
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The_Serpent
Guest
Symbolic numbers might help explain those long lived ancients. But we would need a consistent hypothesis that would work for all of them. Do you have one?
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Timothysis
Guest
No, and apparently no one here does either.Symbolic numbers might help explain those long lived ancients. But we would need a consistent hypothesis that would work for all of them. Do you have one?
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Aussieman88
Guest
Genesis made it into the bible because it’s been acknowledged as being inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit speaks nothing itself but only what it’s been told by God. I believe God does know how old they all were.
You are right we are not fanatics but some numbers are well documended from the study of those languages as having a meaning. I’ve never heard of any of these under 100 but those that i have heard of have repetitive use throughout the bible.
We have no reason to doubt the authenticity of these numbers as meaning what they say. Unless you are one of those people that allow that “we don’t take it Literally” to dominate your life in which case you are missing out on the power contained in the bible.
The bible is the Word of God. He wrote it.
You are right we are not fanatics but some numbers are well documended from the study of those languages as having a meaning. I’ve never heard of any of these under 100 but those that i have heard of have repetitive use throughout the bible.
We have no reason to doubt the authenticity of these numbers as meaning what they say. Unless you are one of those people that allow that “we don’t take it Literally” to dominate your life in which case you are missing out on the power contained in the bible.
The bible is the Word of God. He wrote it.
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Semangelof
Guest
If the giants left fossils they could be what the world knows as gigantopithicus. There are a lot of things you can find online, giant foot prints in stone, giant femurs but giantopithicus is accepted by science. They call it a monkey though.
It is a belief, through sources of no lasting legitimacy such as the book of “the cave of treasures” that cain and abel were born as twins with females. Cain chose his own twin sister even though he was advised against it. It was common not to count females and so it could be possible that they were just not mentioned. Again not a legitimately confirmed source, just a myth but a reasonably likely one.
The lengthy lifetimes of the patriarchs were not exclusive to them. We have sources such as the Sumerian “king list” that show the same lengths of life, and it also shows those lifetimes getting suddenly shortened as they were in the bible.
It is a belief, through sources of no lasting legitimacy such as the book of “the cave of treasures” that cain and abel were born as twins with females. Cain chose his own twin sister even though he was advised against it. It was common not to count females and so it could be possible that they were just not mentioned. Again not a legitimately confirmed source, just a myth but a reasonably likely one.
The lengthy lifetimes of the patriarchs were not exclusive to them. We have sources such as the Sumerian “king list” that show the same lengths of life, and it also shows those lifetimes getting suddenly shortened as they were in the bible.
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Timothysis
Guest
No, He didn’t. The Bible is not a book but many separate books written by many people in many cultures using various literary styles in order to convey a certain meaning to the people of the time. To say that God “wrote it” is just simply wrong. If the Holy Spirit simply whispered into the ear of the scribe, one would hope that his style could have been a little more elevated and less dependent upon stories that were already old when the Bible’s first books were committed to writing.
Once again, even the Church teaches that we must separate the story and it’s details from what the author intended to say, not the manner in which he said it. One is free to take every little detail in Genesis as literal truth, but it doesn’t make it any more “true.” The Bible is not a history book in the sense that everything in it happened and is “true;” rather, it is a book of spiritual truths that seeks to impress upon the reader relevant and religious truth pertaining to man’s relationship with God.
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Aussieman88
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Yes but there are many many other books written that did n’t make it into the bible. These were assembled by the Catholic church and were acknowledged as being Holy Spirit inspired.
Is it that hard to believe that God would have allowed mankind a 900 year life when there was only 2 of them to begin with? Is it that hard to believe Moses’ staff turned into a snake? Is it that hard to believe Jesus rose from the dead? When there’s nothing specific to cast a doubt upon it? We are supposed to be a bible believing church. We should just believe it like a little child.
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Timothysis
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Believe like a child and you will have childish beliefs. The Bible requires an adult knowledge and sophistication to truly understand its meaning and significance. You keep asking “is it hard to believe….” when the real question should be "what are they trying to tell us?" The Bible does not exist in a vacuum and neither should our understanding of it. We are not protestant fundamentalists.
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Aussieman88
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This is so wrong I feel sad for you. Lets not hijack this thread. Lets start another and I’ll show you from the bible why you are wrong. It says we should have childlike faith. I understand. Many catholics don’t know what’s in the bible except what they hear on a sunday.
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Timothysis
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No need to feel sad for me, friend. The Church herself teaches that the many books of the Bible are written in many different literary styles that require proper knowledge in order to understand them. It isn’t a task for children, any more than we seek a child’s opinion on Plato, Cicero or Caesar. You have to know what you are talking about. Do you expect a child to explain exactly what "Hail, full of grace" means? Or to give a discussion on the parallels in Genesis and the Epic of Gilgamesh?
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owensjo
Guest
Here’s what the Navarre Bible has to say about the sons of God:
“We cannot quite work out what the expression “sons of God” means here. Jewish tradition and some ancient Christian writers read it as meaning fallen angels; but that explanation does not fit in with the spiritual nature of angels. Therefore, it has been interpreted as meaning good men, the descendants of Seth who indiscriminately took as wives descendants of Cain, here called “daughters of men”. This is the explanation given by St. Augustine, St. Cyril of Alexandria, and other Fathers. Mankind’s moral decline on account of pride and abuses of marriage prepares the way for the upcoming account of the flood.”
"But the angels transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begat children who are those that are called demons; and besides, they afterwards subdued the human race to themselves, partly by magical writings, and partly by fears and the punishments they occasioned, and partly by teaching them to offer sacrifices, and incense, and libations, of which things they stood in need after they were enslaved by lustful passions; and among men they sowed murders, wars, adulteries, intemperate deeds, and all wickedness. Whence also the poets and mythologists, not knowing that it was the angels and those demons who had been begotten by them that did these things to men, and women, and cities, and nations, which they related, ascribed them to god himself, and to those who were accounted to be his very offspring, and to the offspring of those who were called his brothers, Neptune and Pluto, and to the children again of these their offspring. For whatever name each of the angels had given to himself and his children, by that name they called them." - St Justin Martyr (AD 100 - AD 165), Second Apology, Ch 5
"And for a very long while wickedness extended and spread, and reached and laid hold upon the whole race of mankind, until a very small seed of righteousness remained among them: and illicit unions took place upon the earth, since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants. And the angels brought as presents to their wives teachings of wickedness, in that they brought them the virtues of roots and herbs, dyeing in colours and cosmetics, the discovery of rare substances, love-potions, aversions, amours, concupiscence, constraints of love, spells of bewitchment, and all sorcery and idolatry hateful to God; by the entry of which things into the world evil extended and spread, while righteousness was diminished and enfeebled." - St Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130 – AD 202), The Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching, Ch 18
“These angels, then, who have fallen from heaven, and haunt the air and the earth, and are no longer able to rise to heavenly things, and the souls of the giants, which are the demons who wander about the world, perform actions similar, the one (that is, the demons) to the natures they have received, the other (that is, the angels) to the appetites they have indulged.” - St Athenagoras of Athens (AD 133 – AD 190), A Plea for the Christians, Ch 25
"And for a very long while wickedness extended and spread, and reached and laid hold upon the whole race of mankind, until a very small seed of righteousness remained among them: and illicit unions took place upon the earth, since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants. And the angels brought as presents to their wives teachings of wickedness, in that they brought them the virtues of roots and herbs, dyeing in colours and cosmetics, the discovery of rare substances, love-potions, aversions, amours, concupiscence, constraints of love, spells of bewitchment, and all sorcery and idolatry hateful to God; by the entry of which things into the world evil extended and spread, while righteousness was diminished and enfeebled." - St Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130 – AD 202), The Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching, Ch 18
“These angels, then, who have fallen from heaven, and haunt the air and the earth, and are no longer able to rise to heavenly things, and the souls of the giants, which are the demons who wander about the world, perform actions similar, the one (that is, the demons) to the natures they have received, the other (that is, the angels) to the appetites they have indulged.” - St Athenagoras of Athens (AD 133 – AD 190), A Plea for the Christians, Ch 25
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The_Serpent
Guest
Some great quotes that show these Saints understanding of “giants.” The only way I might differ on this is that these fallen angles did all that. But, by possession. I think you have to take that view; since the Church teaches angels/demons are spirits without bodies. Otherwise, you get into aliens interacting with these people. :hypno:
If you read those quotes carefully, they suggest that the deceased giants are the demons seeking bodies to posess. Their spirits are part angel and part human. Since they used to have a body, they desire bodies to possess.
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